mental health will never be understood by the commoners...

Because it's harder to tell just by looking at a mentally ill person unless he/she tells you. Any act that discriminates against gender, race, religion, physical disability and sexuality have been outlawed - leaving only mental disability open to discrimination. I think the general populace's view on mentally ill people is: "they cannot support themselves, therefore cannot contribute to society". Sure, being able to support yourself doesn't depend on gender, race, religion or sexuality, while the physically disabled can support themselves in different ways (wheelchairs for those unable to walk, sign language for the deaf, Braille for the blind). But the mentally ill, they need other people just to get through life, therefore they are not and can never be independent, so they cannot make a decent contribution to society, and are therefore marginalised by those who do not understand mental illness.

If governments do understand mental illness, they'll make it easier for mentally ill people to get through life. Sounds like a simple solution but it means those people are "better off" than the mentally "fit" so it would drive many people to get a mental health diagnosis of any kind just to be able to get a better life than others. That may be another reason why the stigma remains. And it's usually those with a "survival of the fittest" attitude that stigmatise in this way.

That isn't always the case.

And I seriously don't want government do anything for me. They never do it for free and my soul is not worth to be signed to those bastards.

Anyways asides from giving people money, so they can pay helpers to get them through life... what else can government do? They may have strings attached as being in "treatment" which in this case is gonna be "make em not bother us anymore" rather then interest in individuals well being.

Better life... what is better life? Wouldn't be fair to give money to people for being mentally ill? Shhhhhhhhhh, my uncle bribed a doctor (cause I live in bribable society) and got disability for "nervers". So, you cough up enough money for bribe for "nerves" disability and then are better off than those who have the pride to support themselves, even if it means sometimes having hard time to make the ends meet?

How would it be less stigmatizing? My govt supports the ethnic minorities. You think it increased their statues? Nah, it increased racisim, rise of neo-nazi parties. If you do the same for "mentally ill", giving em pay with strings attached... you gonna see nasty things happening against mentally ill. And it wouldn't be so hard to see who is not working and yet is having decent income.

The only way to get rid of stigma is to work on ourselves. We are stronger then we believe. Living with inner demons is work for a true fighter. And hey, not being able to work 9-5 job doesn't mean we have no other way to support ourselves. One just has to think more about how.

also... this

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...-or-causing-it

What I don't like is the blanket belief that just because you have a mental illness you should be barred from owning a firearm.

You mean marginalized by those who fear it could happen to them?

you're right; I should never have posted in the first place about this topic which I never understood in the first place - your posts have made me sound silly

Not silly... you just have good ideas that really wouldn't work in real world. Like communism.

don't take it as criticism... it's just point out the reality of what may happen and what it is. Simple solutions never work and complicated ones are too complicated.

so in the end, it's lots of efford that hopefully may work out for everybody.

No, you don't sound silly.

Not true at all.

would you give a child a box of razor blades to play with

True in many ways disability allowance is more money than straight out of work payments, so now people are faking mental illness to get better benifits , invent a carer and add more money . a loop hole the size of mars

i think it's important to recognize that disability benefits do not work the same way in every country, first.

Second, I'm actually pretty taken aback by the notion that those who accept or rely on disability benefits don't have pride.

Really?

Maybe think about these things before you write them, please. Perhaps that wasn't an intended insult, but it most certainly read like that.

Also, as long as the whole "us versus them" ideology is reinforced, stigma, fear, ignorance, etc will be perpetuated.

When people are put into factions and then either side reinforces those factions, individuals are labeled with traits and behaviors that don't necessarily apply to them. And it can happen to EVERYONE involved.

Where are you getting your information, out of curiosity?

In the United States, at least- and I admit to my ignorance elsewhere- it is actually pretty difficult to get approved for disability benefits generally. On the claim of just a mental illness? It's very very very difficult.

There is really very little option to "game the system" as is implied in this quoted statement.

And really?

In my case, where in the last YEAR I have attempted and failed at three jobs because I have had major physical issues- I have my own benefits plus I have additional dependent benefits through my father. ALL OF THAT TOGETHER still puts me just barely at the poverty level.

To give you some perspective, many federal/government assistance programs will still offer financial/nutritional/medical/housing/other assistance to individuals at times who are at 300% of the poverty level Sometimes 400%.

That means they think you are so terribly off financially at three to four times my financial resources that an individual is still eligible for numerous assistance programs... and I am, luckily, eligible for two different lines of benefits... which as I say put me at about the poverty line- it's just how the cards fell.

So mull that over.

I mean, anyone want to talk about stigma?
Disability benefits are not a walk in the park.
It's not like you live in the lap of luxury.
Don't make that mistake, please.

ETA:
major physical issues
My bad, I meant to write major physical and mental issues, but it's super early in the morning and my brain doesn't always connect. To expound upon this- I have had various neurological issues and joint issues combined with a major comeback of OCD to the point where the OCD was debilitating at times. Things seem to have improved on that front. So... I'm going to give it another go soon.

Hoping this 800th try will stick.

I was speaking of the original proposal that in OP that government makes it easier for mentally ill to get through life. If you are insulted by it, feel free to be so.

I realize it doesn't work the same in every country. I was just saying that the best way to make society to hate a certain group is to blatantly throw benefits at them.

This is matter where not profit should step into and companies, to create some safe work slots. Government could perhaps give such companies tax benefits, but... I don't wanna goverment creating programs to "make it easier to get through life". They know nothing about the life of people. They don't know what struggle is, most of them don't. So why let them make rules for the struggling?


speaking of insulting...


we are NOT children.

If you were speaking to something else, than maybe do that, rather than lump in anyone who doesn't or can't work and needs benefits as people who dont have pride.

I'm not choosing to be insulted by such a notion. It's clearly insulting, even if you want to side step that by claiming a semantic pass.

I think we are all mentally ill every single person on this planet. Just various degrees which begs the question, what the freak is normal? I submit it is society that determines the norm. And if we were the majority and in control, we would be the norm. I reject the notion that MI is hopeless or unproductive. I do agree that most people can not really understand what another person goes throw or feels except in some instances. But not in depression or MI. It would be like trying to describe the color red to a person born blind.

Where I live it is really hard to get disability for mental illness. The rule is that you cannot, if it is not seen as lifelong. That doesn't mean they look at you to predict you will have a lifelong problem, they look at the diagnosis itself. So if you have disabling depression and anxiety, you do not qualify. That is because in theory you can be cured. Those are my main issues but I would never have been approved without also having Asperger's.

STILL people think there is a lot of fraud. I have yet to come across one single person who has faked mental illness and gotten away with it. But I guess the politicians here like that rumor to live on because they "actively hunt down scammers". That makes people even harsher against us being on disability, now it is suddenly OK to tell us whatever and treat us bad.

I don't take pride in ability to work. I would work if I could. I think a humble approach is better. Whether we can fully support ourselves, none of us is really making the world a better place as we use up resources. We're all leaching on earth itself. I'd like to fix that, if it was possible.

Well said, JosieTheGirl.

In England its has simple has filling out a form, If you have a certain ammout of money in the bank you get nothing . But less then claim away its even become a cultured life style. If you loose your job your payed job seekers money, If your sick you get sick benefits that, s more that job seekers . If you are off long term with a long term illness like cronic depression then you can claim for carer allowance ie you wife gets payed to look after you or partner, adding more benefits, there is council tax you dont have to pay housing benefit so no rent to pay for those renting. Now if genuine then this is a god send , but if faking mental illness then its a perk , they may even slip out and do a part time job to boost there robbed money more. I DONT SEE IT HARD TO FAKE MENTAL ILLNESS NO MORE THAN A BAD BACK ,

By pride I meant that some people will do what they can to make it on their own.

I am glad you all live in awesome places where nobody ever abuses government aid, but from my experience... it could be cause I live behind the former iron curtain was... where's it's corrupted and corruptable.

So I apologize if I offended somebody, but I will not apologize for saying there's people everywhere who will milk any system that is prone to be milked.

*shrugs*

You have no idea what any person here has done to attempt to make it on their own, and continue to make judgement based on little to no information.

I didn't see where someone said this, but yeah that would be pretty ludicrous to think NO ONE can EVER take advantage of any system. But to think, and perpetuate the idea that there is just rampant abuse of a benefits system [which is often the thought and the implication when people say they take issue with such a system, specifically the disability benefits system that I was referring to] isn't accurate.

The numbers for abuse of government benefits vary from program to program in the US simply because the programs are more or less vulnerable to that abuse. If you want to make generalities and then take offense to something no one actually wrote, it doesn't actually make much sense if you truly want to explore the topic.

Again, missed where someone said you should.
The insult was where you were suggesting a specific group of people lack pride, which I made clear.

If you don't see a problem with suggesting that people classified as ill lack pride because they are unable to support themselves, I recommend maybe you talk to more individuals who are debilitatingly ill and who don't just claim a label of "illness". Your remarks are almost dripping with disdain and it is a bit confusing, particularly seeing as you are an active member on this site and engage with many of the people who you are now professing to be so critical and judgmental of.

Is it not possible that mental illness can be as crippling as a physical illness?
Are you suggesting that everyone can overcome it if they just try hard enough, and anyone can survive on their own if they just "do what they can to support themselves"?

I'm not sure who is actually perpetuating stigma at this point, VenusHalley, if your suggestion is that anyone with a mental illness can just make it work if they try hard enough.

Perhaps that is your individual experience.
It is not the experience of every person who has a mental illness.

If there is not dysfunction and impediment there is no actual illness, so what are we all doing here?

I never implied anything what you said.


My reply was mostly spinned off this statement:

Maybe I misunderstood, but it seems OP suggested welfare as way to drive people to get diagnosis.

Imho, many would be able to work, if they were given the opportunity to do the "right" kind of job for them. This would involve social workers involvement, career advisors and maybe some laws regarding to employing people with special needs.

I'm bipolar and a gun owner. I've never hurt anyone with a firearm, but I'm now barred from buying any more because I had a psychotic break.

I'm back to bipolar now and I'm no threat to anyone. Your statement does not take into account people like me.

A Psychotic situation with a gun

Jeeze, I will probably regret ever going here and jumping into this thread. It covers a lot of territory already, some of it far from the OP's original question. But, it's all highly relevant to me, it's what I am really struggling with the concept of stigma right now. To the point that I really want to take my toys and go home, leave the game, so to speak, permanently. Because I feel doomed because I had a breakdown and ended up in a psych day program. And I went to extreme lengths to cover that fact up. Trying to cover up such a significant thing as spending three weeks in a psych day program is a herculean task, and unfortunately, it takes a level of perfection to be successful that is frankly impossible for a mere mortal. Yet, I tried, and still try, because I fear that being "found out" will be my death sentence. Or, more accurately, my execution, the signing of the death warrant, because the death sentence came the day I was sent to the program in the first place.

Why do I feel this way -- because I think this society is cold, harsh, judgmental, discriminatory, hateful, and contemptuous of people with mental health issues. And, we are one of the last groups that it is still fully acceptable to bash, to mock, to ridicule openly in public, and no one stands up to up, people just laugh and agree or look serious and agree that "it's a problem".

So, a good question is, why did I feel I needed to cover up the fact I had a nervous breakdown and ended up in a psych day program? Well, this was my thought process: If people find out I am being treated for a psychiatric problem serious enough to be in a day hospital program, they will think less of me, and treat me differently. My boss will fire me. I won't ever be able to find a job in my career field again. My family will reject me, they will view me as a weak man, a failure, and chalk it up as the ultimate failure in a life they already viewed as not measuring up to their standards. The cost of all of that, being unemployed, unemployable, will eat me up financially, and I will run out of money. I will end up homeless, on the streets, and die a miserable death. There will be absolutely no help of any kind for me, because in this country, it's virtually impossible to get anyway, and takes so long to qualify for that all of this will play out before I could ever possibly get SSI/SSDI.

Because, you know, that was my image of what happened to people with a serious mental illness. Abandoned, left to die on the street like dogs. And, well, I know that isn't the rule, but it does happen. And I really feared that. So, I chose to try to completely hide what I was going through. Good luck with that, one little slip up is all it takes for people to start questioning, and once they begin, they tend to not want to take no for an answer, and not want to back down and just be content to let things be. No, they pry into others' business as if it were a right of them to do so.

So, I feel doomed. And trapped. And at this time, I am really sorry I ever chose to make that call to see a psychiatrist. How this plays out in the end, I'm not really sure. All I can say is that the pressure of this situation feels unbearable at times.