[InfiniteSadness]

I think its a big matter of meds or other forms of treatment whether it be natural or what have you for some people who chronically suffer. I know i could barely function before i tried medication and/or supplements to help symptoms. i think some people are just that bad and the brain/body is lacking a lot of things. Its amost like science over everything else but i know this doesnt apply to everyone and therapy has helped others.

[jaciRock]

There are some things that all the therapy in the world won't help--they need meds.

I had a psychotic break, will be on meds forever, but quit talk therapy because I wasn't getting anything out of it.

[venusss]

Are you trying to convince yourself? No offense, but you been here for few years and you keep posting the same things, about trying to find something you can swallow that would help you and at the same time dismissing things that you have to do.

Can drugs help? Oh totally. Can they help if you just sit on your butt, take little chemical or natural aid and do nothing else? Not convinced it work that way. Ya can take pills and herbal tinctures and believe in yourself at the same time.

Like for me... Bach essences help with anxiety and other issues. But you know what helped me overcome my social anxiety almost completely? Getting out and talking to people on one long term protest assembly. It just happened, I was so angry about the issue at hand that I put aside my fears. First few times I done it, I have been in daze, crushing upon coming home. Then I realized that nothing bad happens, that if somebody calls me a name or even posts my picture all over social media for everybody to criticize... One can shake it off.

Do I still have other issues? Sure. Do I use mind altering substances to help? Hah, my herbs take up one whole box in my kitchen and it's stuffed really tight. But I know they can do only so much... probably as much as if I went to doctor and got some fancy pricey prescription. The rest is on me.

One has to be hella resourceful if they want a good life. If you wanna include mind altering substances, that is perfectly fine. But they are one of the things, not THE thing.

[marmaduke]

I dont think any amount of talking therapy would have made much differnce to me. I need pills.

[gayleggg]

I have to have medication as well. Therapy only keeps track of how bad I am and alerts my doctor if I start down the dark path.

Best wishes, Gayle
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[flockpride]

If a tool works to bring relief and ease suffering, we should use it. It could be medication, meditation, support group, exercise, etc. Whatever...it is okay. The tools are neutral. How they are employed is where trouble comes in. People can use meditation to avoid dealing with problems. They can exercise to the point of injury. They can dominate support groups for self aggrandizement. The tools are neutral.

There is a place for medication and it can be helpful to some people. Context matters. They are most helpful in conjunction with therapy - medication can only treat symptoms ; they do not get at the root cause of what might be going on for a person to be feeling say anxious or depressed. If your therapist is just 'tracking how bad you're doing', then you probably don't have a good therapist or their orientation is not one that's going to help move you in the direction you want. It is also important to be an agent of change in your own life. One danger I see with meds is when people passively take them, don't engage in their treatment, suffer the side effects, and hope that everything will get better without doing anything else to effect their circumstances besides taking a medication their doctor suggested. I'm not saying that's what you're doing, just talking off the top of my head.

I think there are so many things that influence how we are doing, like support system, family, close relationships, therapy, good sleep, mindfulness, stress management, relaxation, leisure and fun, feeling appreciated at work, having stability (financial, employment etc.), feeling hope, having a sense of direction or purpose, being physically healthy, taking a look at your diet and what foods might be causing inflammation in the body and brain, movement and so on. Taking a look at whether or not the life you're living is the life you thought you'd have at this point and if it isn't, what values are missing? For example, if I value friendship and it's very important to me, but I haven't made an effort to see my friends in 2 months and am isolating myself...that could be a factor influencing my depression big time.

[avlady]

i know from experince in the last week, i was taken off my psycosis med i begged the doc to take me off of them, and put me on something else so she gave me different ones. i almost had a pshchotic break yesterday so i went back on the old dose, i'm happy i caught it in time i feel fine now. i am a lifer on the meds and don't mind because i feel great and healthy on my meds now.

[flockpride]

Originally Posted by flockpride

If a tool works to bring relief and ease suffering, we should use it. It could be medication, meditation, support group, exercise, etc. Whatever...it is okay. The tools are neutral. How they are employed is where trouble comes in. People can use meditation to avoid dealing with problems. They can exercise to the point of injury. They can dominate support groups for self aggrandizement. The tools are neutral.

P.S. and folks can use a pill as an excuse not to do anything else...

[flockpride]

Originally Posted by avlady

i know from experince in the last week, i was taken off my psycosis med i begged the doc to take me off of them, and put me on something else so she gave me different ones. i almost had a pshchotic break yesterday so i went back on the old dose, i'm happy i caught it in time i feel fine now. i am a lifer on the meds and don't mind because i feel great and healthy on my meds now.

Dear avlady,
I struggle with the idea of medication and am beginning to reconsider using it again. Before you started medication, did you ever feel totally opposed to using it?

[avlady]

i wa put on a pshyc ward a few times and each time i was walking around the ward saying oink oink,haha, i was totally against it until i realized i did need the meds as they helped me come off of a pshycotic break and breaks. i was in a few car accidents and was assaulted so i don't know if a head injury caused the breaks although. now i am all for meds and positive they've helped me greatly.i do suggest people that really need them should. i am schitzophrenic too so that was what i take them for too and i agree with my diagnosis, i know i was against doctors for years but realized i am a lifer on the meds too. i am greaful.

[marmaduke]

looking glass
medication can only treat symptoms ; they do not get at the root cause of what might be going on for a person to be feeling say anxious or depressed.

It is true medication only treats symptoms which is not ideal, and one day there will be a cure.
But then again insulin only treats the symptoms of diabetes it don't cure it.

I know the root cause of my depression, my abusive narcissistic parents caused it.
How can a doctor replace a lost childhood?

Meds help me. Abuse, neglect changes the brain. Meds help correct the imbalance.
I've never had therapy, I think, if I'd had that sort of help when I young it would have helped greatly.
Mother became particularly spiteful when I was 11 (tried to stab me with a carving knife) someone to talk to that 'got it' would have been a big relief.

[avlady]

could you get therapy sometime? I also believe the symptoms of my illness are controlled by meds but i will never be cured either.

Yes mamaduke, and many people are reversing diabetes through diet and are able to go off their insulin. There are ways to heal that go beyond medication for both mental and physical issues. It isn't an imbalance, that was the old school thinking. The truth is, they don't know for certain what meds do. They help in some cases and not others. There are ways to help ourselves despite our childhood. Choices we make now, self care, meaning. Working through past traumas and neglect and finding different ways of responding. Brains are changed by trauma, but they are also plastic and we have more influence on it than Big Pharma would like us to realize. Even for psychosis. Body mind, environment and genes all go together and each one of us is unique

[avlady]

so true!!

[jacky8807]

Originally Posted by looking_glass

Yes mamaduke, and many people are reversing diabetes through diet and are able to go off their insulin. There are ways to heal that go beyond medication for both mental and physical issues. It isn't an imbalance, that was the old school thinking. The truth is, they don't know for certain what meds do. They help in some cases and not others. There are ways to help ourselves despite our childhood. Choices we make now, self care, meaning. Working through past traumas and neglect and finding different ways of responding. Brains are changed by trauma, but they are also plastic and we have more influence on it than Big Pharma would like us to realize. Even for psychosis. Body mind, environment and genes all go together and each one of us is unique

Its true. The chemical imbalance reasoning was a guess and as this post states. .the medical community really has no clue. Meds help but coping skills help as well ESPECIALLY for trauma

[*Laurie*]

Originally Posted by InfiniteSadness

I think its a big matter of meds or other forms of treatment whether it be natural or what have you for some people who chronically suffer. I know i could barely function before i tried medication and/or supplements to help symptoms. i think some people are just that bad and the brain/body is lacking a lot of things. Its amost like science over everything else but i know this doesnt apply to everyone and therapy has helped others.

Anyone who doesn't believe that medication doesn't make a difference should be bipolar and going through menopause

[Agarwaen]

Originally Posted by venusss

Are you trying to convince yourself? No offense, but you been here for few years and you keep posting the same things, about trying to find something you can swallow that would help you and at the same time dismissing things that you have to do.

Can drugs help? Oh totally. Can they help if you just sit on your butt, take little chemical or natural aid and do nothing else? Not convinced it work that way. Ya can take pills and herbal tinctures and believe in yourself at the same time.

Like for me... Bach essences help with anxiety and other issues. But you know what helped me overcome my social anxiety almost completely? Getting out and talking to people on one long term protest assembly. It just happened, I was so angry about the issue at hand that I put aside my fears. First few times I done it, I have been in daze, crushing upon coming home. Then I realized that nothing bad happens, that if somebody calls me a name or even posts my picture all over social media for everybody to criticize... One can shake it off.

Do I still have other issues? Sure. Do I use mind altering substances to help? Hah, my herbs take up one whole box in my kitchen and it's stuffed really tight. But I know they can do only so much... probably as much as if I went to doctor and got some fancy pricey prescription. The rest is on me.

One has to be hella resourceful if they want a good life. If you wanna include mind altering substances, that is perfectly fine. But they are one of the things, not THE thing.

I used the whole quote, but what interested me was your take on social anxiety and how you worked it out. That's really great.

I wish it worked that way for me. The last time I went out because my wants outweighed my fears was to see a concert. I went well fortified, and the crowds... I flipped. Just could NOT take it.

I wish I could erase it from my memory.

But, the common wisdom is that one must confront their fears. And it works for many people. Just not for me. I can never get that through to people. Things go rapidly downhill. And the latent trauma can last weeks.

The thing is, it's not set in stone. I can and have gone places and done things, no problem. Where there were crowds, I mean, or just people tightly packed.

I have yet to find any combination of ways to deal with it. It has gotten worse over the years. I am trying therapy and meds right now. I don't think the meds do anything. The therapy, well, so far I have skirted the issue, just trying to feel out this therapist. So far, so good.

I could never find any 'higher power' or faith in any 'God.' Not when it comes right down to it. I figure if there is a God it is way beyond my ability to comprehend.

In essence, I have no solutions. Just questions. I don't think there is any one right way for all. Some solutions work for more people than others, is all. I guess science hasn't figured out the brain enough to help me much.

[InfiniteSadness]

Originally Posted by looking_glass

Yes mamaduke, and many people are reversing diabetes through diet and are able to go off their insulin. There are ways to heal that go beyond medication for both mental and physical issues. It isn't an imbalance, that was the old school thinking. The truth is, they don't know for certain what meds do. They help in some cases and not others. There are ways to help ourselves despite our childhood. Choices we make now, self care, meaning. Working through past traumas and neglect and finding different ways of responding. Brains are changed by trauma, but they are also plastic and we have more influence on it than Big Pharma would like us to realize. Even for psychosis. Body mind, environment and genes all go together and each one of us is unique

How do you know theres no imbalance? And they've actually done PET/brain scans that show abnormalities in areas of the brain of those depressed/ocd/schizophrenia.. etc..

[InfiniteSadness]

Originally Posted by venusss

Are you trying to convince yourself? No offense, but you been here for few years and you keep posting the same things, about trying to find something you can swallow that would help you and at the same time dismissing things that you have to do.

Can drugs help? Oh totally. Can they help if you just sit on your butt, take little chemical or natural aid and do nothing else? Not convinced it work that way. Ya can take pills and herbal tinctures and believe in yourself at the same time.

Like for me... Bach essences help with anxiety and other issues. But you know what helped me overcome my social anxiety almost completely? Getting out and talking to people on one long term protest assembly. It just happened, I was so angry about the issue at hand that I put aside my fears. First few times I done it, I have been in daze, crushing upon coming home. Then I realized that nothing bad happens, that if somebody calls me a name or even posts my picture all over social media for everybody to criticize... One can shake it off.

Do I still have other issues? Sure. Do I use mind altering substances to help? Hah, my herbs take up one whole box in my kitchen and it's stuffed really tight. But I know they can do only so much... probably as much as if I went to doctor and got some fancy pricey prescription. The rest is on me.

One has to be hella resourceful if they want a good life. If you wanna include mind altering substances, that is perfectly fine. But they are one of the things, not THE thing.

I appreciate your response but find it a little insensetive. And no, not everyone can 'shake it off' as you said above..

[InfiniteSadness]

Perhaps i should of changed the title of the thread.. I meant that recovery is not always about willpower first or lack of willpower to get better.. Some people need a ton of extra help. One can understand this when u feel that helpless/hopeless

[marmaduke]

For many, if not all there IS a chemical imbalance. To believe otherwise is illogical.
Our moods are controlled and created by chemicals, hormones, serotonin, dopamine, adrenaline, oestrogen the list goes on.

Even 'love' is a drug;
Dr. Helen Fisher, an anthropologist and relationship researcher, conducted a series of illuminating studies on the brain chemistry of love. Specifically, she found that the same brain chemicals (that is, massive amounts of dopamine and norepinephrine ) are in play, and many of the same brain pathways and structures are active when we are falling in love and enjoying a cocaine-high.

I think there is some flexibility in the brain so I'm sure therapy can work for some, in as much as positive thinking, repetition etc can encourage more 'feel good' chemicals to be released.

[marmaduke]

Originally Posted by looking_glass

Yes mamaduke, and many people are reversing diabetes through diet and are able to go off their insulin. There are ways to heal that go beyond medication for both mental and physical issues. It isn't an imbalance, that was the old school thinking. The truth is, they don't know for certain what meds do. They help in some cases and not others. There are ways to help ourselves despite our childhood. Choices we make now, self care, meaning. Working through past traumas and neglect and finding different ways of responding. Brains are changed by trauma, but they are also plastic and we have more influence on it than Big Pharma would like us to realize. Even for psychosis. Body mind, environment and genes all go together and each one of us is unique

People with type 1 diabetes cannot come off insulin.

People with type 2 diabetes are not on insulin they take metformin, occasionally they can stop taking the pills if they lose weight and eat healthily. Do you really think diabetes is not a chemical imbalance?

We are made of chemicals, fact.

[TheEbonyEwe]

A lot of people forget that your brain is an organ. If it gets damaged or doesn't work properly, your behavior, mood, etc, will not work right. Therapy may not work right if you need something to correct a chemical deficiency. Pills may not work right if you have a damaged brain. (Ever got hit in the head growing up?). The problem is that of all the people who suffer mental illness, a low percentage of them actually find out what's really wrong with them. MRIs and neurological studies are extremely expensive and if you have no insurance, you're at the mercy of what the state or county will provide... which isn't squat.
So, don't listen to all the hubbub about you should keep trying this/that. If you can ultimately find out what's really going on with your brain... do it. If not... you're at the mercy of the system playing "lets see what this treatment/med does".

[zegami]

I've been dealing with life for a long time and have seen all perspectives.

Meds won't help but recovery in itself is quite relative. For most mental health patients recovery at best is just being able to function semi independently, and if you can be happy with that then its great!

But I don't believe life is worth living no matter what mood I am in.