[Nosebleed]

I have a question.
About a week ago, I finally got diagnosed with ADD, OCD, Clinical Depression & Anxiety Disorder.
Yesterday I found out that I have a weak heart and that later on in life I might have serious heart problems.
I'm a 21 yr old guy from India and I should have been in my final (4th year) of college by now. But I'm still in the 2nd year.

Now that I'm getting treated for all the disorders, I can hopefully pass the remaining 2 years with good scores.
So my question is this.
I want to do my Master's either in the US or Canada. If I can pass the remaining 2 years with good scores and score well in entrance examination (GRE or the Canadian equivalent), what are the chances of me getting accepted into a decent university?
I mean will they consider the fact that I lost 2 years because of the mental illnesses? Because if I was to apply for a master's here in India, most universities would just straight away reject me saying that I flunked 2 years. (Primarily because most people here don't know what ADD or OCD even means)

I know this is a very random question.But I'm guessing there are people here who have had academics related problems. So any info at all would help.

[Raynaadi]

Good for you for wanting to continue your education! I wish I knew the answer....I had to take a medical withdrawal from the University of Arizona because my mom was sick, and they let me come back later and even get my scholarship back.

Its probably up to the individual university.....it seems to me that if you're honest and up front about everything from the beginning, that they couldn't discriminate just like employers can't......I'd suggest starting to contact some of the schools you're interested in now and asking these questions to them, that way, you can start planning depending on what they tell you.

Good luck in your endeavors!!!

[selfy]

i am sorry, i dunno, tis good u r still in education... good luck with it, i wish u all the best
take care
self

how much can you pull up your GPA do you think? Could you pull it up to something reasonable?

A good GRE score will help your case. (Canadian universities don't require them but it certainly wouldn't help your case to send your score anyway).

You should get the opportunity to send a good covering letter. In your covering letter you should draw attention to the fact that a couple bad years pulled your GPA down and you should also calculate your GPA for your last year of study / your last couple years of study etc so you can get the best GPA out of your grades that you can.

You could say that you had an undiagnosed condition that affected your early grades but that it had been diagnosed and that it wouldn't affect your future studies.

Good letters of reccomendation would also help your case considerably.

If you are looking at funding your studies yourself and you meet the entry requirements then you should get in somewhere.

If you are applying to particularly competitive programs or are considering applying for particularly competitive scholarships then things might be harder.

As a general rule your last undergraduate year is taken more seriously (weighted more heavily) than your early undergraduate years. They are also more concerned about your major subject than your minors.

Good luck.

[Rapunzel]

What are you studying, and what would you like to get a master's degree in? It could depend on the field and how competitive it is. But I think that you have a good chance. Some graduate programs only look at your GPA from your last 60 credits anyway, so if you do well in your last two years and your GRE, you should have good chances. There are a lot of students who take time off for various reasons, so having a break in your education may not count against you at all. I was out of school for 12 years after I should have graduated, but didn't for technical reasons. I took another year of classes after the 12 year break, and I am now working on a master's degree. I wouldn't tell them in the application that it was due to mental illness (at least I was told not to tell that to the schools I applied to), if you can say anything else such as that you were working, or taking time for personal or family development, .... After you get accepted you can be more open about mental illness.

[Nosebleed]

To 'Rapunzel' & 'alexandra_k' :

Well, I'm studying Information Technology Engineering now. And would like to get a master's in computer science, IT management or something related.

The problem is that there's no "break taking" in India. I mean I realize that in America many people take breaks for various reasons. But in India, it is pretty much unheard of. And since most technical (engineering and science) universities in USA and Canada deal with a lot of applicants from India every year, they would know this and wouldn't buy it if I told them that I took a break for 2 years. So I'd have to sort of tell them about my mental disorders.

But here's the whole story.
In this country, there aren't a lot of career options. Most children just go in for whatever it is that their fathers do. My father is Engineer and works for IBM. He went to the #1 university in the country. The university is as reputed as USA's Stanford or MIT. So you can imagine what was expected from me.
Here we have an examination called the board examination. It is basically the final exam of your 12th grade. But the difference is that your score in the board exam decides what college you'll get into. So basically it's as significant as the American SAT.
Till the 11th grade, I wasn't doing very well. And since my father didn't want me to go to a less-than-excellent college, he made me repeat grade 12, so I'd have more time to prepare for my board exams. So while I was repeating grade 12, I sat at home all day (11 and 12th grade repeaters aren't required to attend school. they just have to appear for exams) trying to study. I spent close to 12 hours on my study table each day, and the amount of studying I'd get done each day would be the same as an average person would do in 3 or 4 hours.
But since I was studying the same stuff for the 2nd time, I did well. I scored 97% in maths, 95% in physics and 92% in Chemistry. Thats 94.7% aggregate. (the maths and science we study in 12th grade is what a cousin of mine in USA is studying in 2nd year college. he's studying mechanical engineering) Off course this was an excellent score and I got into a very good college. But I couldn't keep it up in college. In first year, I could only do well in 2 (out of 10) papers. Just barely passed the rest.
Second year is where it all fell apart. I started getiing anxiety attacks and I just couldn't even attend college.

And oh, I'm not looking for a scholarship. I just want to get into a decent university.

[Nosebleed]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
alexandra_k said:
how much can you pull up your GPA do you think? Could you pull it up to something reasonable?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
We don't have the GPA system here.
40-50% aggregare in a semester is 3rd class
50-60% is 2nd class
60-65% is 1st class
66% and above is 1st class with distinction
(Below 40% is failure)

My aggregate of the 1st 3 semesters is close to 51%. Thats 2nd class. But I think with proper treatment, I can get a 1st class with disctinction(66% or above) in the rest of the semesters.

[rockgal]

Hi. I would not worry about it. Just study and do your best. If your GREs, your grades in your major, and your grades in your last two years are good, and if you are perceived to be a good fit for the program you are applying to, you will be competitive. People have breaks in their education for all sorts of reasons. Are you able to do any part time work (paid or volunteer) in the area you are interested in? That will help.

My brother had a break of about 12 years before finishing his B.S. in engineering. He went on to do a master's in a very prestigious program. He was working in his field during that break, which probably helped. I have known others with long breaks. Making direct contact with a faculty member in the program you are applying to can't hurt.

rockgal

i've never heard of time off being frowned upon in american or canadian institutions (including ivy league ones). i know more about PhD applications than Masters applications, but i would assume that they would be similar. in the US the following three are important:

- grades
- graduate record exam score
- letters of reccomendation

they are said to be evenly weighted, but i'm not at all convinced that they are (institution comes into play as does the reputation of the referees).

i made a typo in my above post. if you can get a good GRE score then i would make sure that you send it off with your applications even if they don't require it they won't be able to help taking a peek and if you score well then it can't hurt to include it.

they won't hold it against you that you took time off... but... personally... (i know everybody is different)... but personally, i wouldn't tell them that you had mental health problems. you could say that you weren't sure what you wanted to do with your life... then once you made your decision you returned and then emphasise your grades since then. they are likely to understand that smart people have a tendency to not apply themselves if they don't feel terribly motivated and they shouldn't be concerned about a period of figuring things out if you have demonstrated that you can apply yourself since.

(i say this because there is still a lot of stigma in the united states about mental health issues. IMHO it is none of their business and telling them is telling them more than they need to know. there has been talk about compiling a mental health database of individuals who have a history of mental illness and given the current situation of biological / genetic determinism i'd personally be very cautious indeed about their thinking you might have some brain damage that might result in mass shootings etc. maybe i'm overly concerned... but the fact is that it is none of their business).

what they really care about at the end of the day is the quality of the work that you do while you are affiliated with them.

[Nosebleed]

Thanks for the info 'alexandra_k'

I can understand why tellin them about OCD, Anxiety and Depression might create a prolem. But what about ADD? you know, since ADD is something that is concerned with academic performance.

i would say the same would go for ADD. let your academic performance speak for itself. though... i'm from Australasia and I think it is fair to say that the norm in the USA (compared to the norm in Australasia) is to talk yourself up.

you got really terrific grades at school so we know you can get some really terrific grades at university too.

then it is a matter of persuading them that your terrific grades are likely to persist and that the low grades were an abberation that is unlikely to repeat.

(if you have trouble believing the 'unlikely to repeat' stuff i'd suggest you get your hands on some of the anti-psychiatry literature.)

if you tell them that you have ADD and that you don't know if it is likely to affect your performance then you can expect them to choose someone else who can tell them that it isn't likely to affect their performance. if you tell them that you have ADD then you can expect them to choose someone else rather than taking a risk on your mental health.

as i said, lots of people take some time off and / or have some crap grades at university for their first year or so. if you have good referee reports, score well on the GRE, and do well in your later years then they shouldn't hold it against you.

with respect to the norms on the USA they expect you to blow your own trumpet. i'd make sure you emphasise your later grades and your GRE and say something that is likely to reassure them that your early grades are a thing of the past that isn't likely to be repeated. people tend to be fairly simple creatures... personally... i'd avoid the whole issue of mental illness because the fact is that the majority of people out there think things are likely to be chronic and hence won't be willing to take a risk on someone with mental illness if there is a comperable person who doesn't have one.

you can campaign against stigma for mental illness when you are one of the top people in IBM ;-) until then... i'd keep it under your hat...

[Nosebleed]

^ Alright. Thanks a lot for taking the time

welcome. i'm probably overstating things a little - i'm sure that there are many individuals, programs, universities etc that don't (knowingly or unknowingly) discriminate on the basis of mental illness. probably i'm a bit paranoid about keeping things under my hat...

i guess that i think 'better safe than sorry' and i don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering if a place would have given me a chance if they hadn't known. wondering if i would have got in there and done really well if they hadn't known...

good luck.

PS... have you thought about Australasia at all? Might cost a bit more to get there but the exchange rate is a bit better and it ain't so darned cold...

[Nosebleed]

^
Is it easier to get into a university in Australia or New Zealand?

I've actually heard from people that people here in India are kind of reluctant to hire people with Australian degrees. I don't know why. American and Canadian degrees are much more acceptable.

But tell me. How easy is it for a foreigner who's done a master's in Australia to get a job in Australia?

how easy it will be to get in depends quite heavily on where it is that you want to go. i think that you will find more top class universities (that are very competitive to get into) in the US, but i think that you will also find more low class universities (that you probably don't really want to go to) in the US. both extremes, really.

with PhD applications in the US each application costs you US$80 a pop. that makes it harder to send out applications to a larage variety of places. you probably would be best to submit a couple of ivy league applications, a couple of applications to programs slightly lower down, a couple of applications to programs slightly lower down again etc. then (ideally) you get some choice in where you end up.

they reccommend sending out about 5 or 6 applications (at a minimum).

I've heard of some people from India who apply to do medicine in the US applying to around 200 places. they simply HAVE to be a doctor, i guess...

applications can be time consuming. you are at a significant advantage if you are able to fund your studies yourself and you don't require a scholarship. given that (and working with the assumption that you will score well in the GRE and that you will get good grades in your next couple years) i'd say that it would be worth applying to a few ivy league institutions. don't know whether you would be thinking of going on to do a PhD but it would be much easier to get into an ivy league PhD program if you have a Masters degree from an ivy league instutition.

i'm not sure whether it costs to apply to Canada...

it doesn't cost to apply to Australasia.

i'm probably not the best person to ask about computer science jobs in Australasia. i'm in philosophy myself. getting an academic job in philosophy can be a bit tricky. less than half the people who complete their PhD get an academic job (world wide), though your prospects are a bit better if you go to a well ranked institution.

there are more post-doctoral fellowships available per academic head of population in Australia than available anywhere else in the world. i'm hoping to stay in Australia and pick up one or two of those.

so long as your English is alright (it seems to be) your indian citizenship certainly wouldn't be held against you in Australia. you might even be able to pick up residency and then dual citizenship along the way if you wanted a job with defence or something like that.

will you have to take the TOFL or whatever it is called (English language test) or was English your language of instruction (I've heard that often native English speakers can struggle with the TOFL test)?

the reluctance to hire people with Australian degrees might be a reluctance more generally to hire people with degrees under the British system.

US system:
first (undergraduate degree) - four years.
masters degree - one year? two? i'm not sure on this. worth looking into...
PhD - 5 years. 2 years coursework. breadth exam to show general knowledge in the field. depth exam to show specific knowledge of the area you wish to write a thesis on. 3 years thesis.

British system:
first (undergraduate degree) - three years.
honours (required if you want to proceed to either PhD or Masters) - one year coursework.
Masters - one year research
PhD - 3 years thesis.

(this is the new British system. It has been modified slightly from the old British system so it is more comperable to the American system).

the main things to note are the 3 year first degree compared to the 4 year first degree. if i was choosing between two comperable applicants then i'd choose the person with 4 years training over the person with 3 years training to be sure. if someone has a three year first degree plus a year of honours study then that is supposed to be equivalent, however.

the other main thing to note is the 3 year PhD program compared to the 5 year PhD program. that is a biggie. people are forced to specialise early under the british system and thus often lack some of the breadth and general subject knowledge of people coming through the 5 year program. that does make it hard for Australasian students to compete with American students for jobs. The US job market is a biggie because of the sheer number of institutions that they have... That being said... I'd rather have a tenured position at the University of Melbourne than a tenured position at the University of Arkansus (no offence peoples). Getting a position at the University of Melbourne would of course be hard to do and one would have to face competition from people from the US in order to get the job. On the upside... They do seem to like to take applicants who have ties to Australia (which you might well develop after being here for a year or 4 if you stay for a PhD) and if you know the people (as you will get to do if you go to conferences and the like) then that will count in your favour.

But that is all academic posts... And I'm not sure that you want an academic post...

I'd say your first step would be to get a hold of some university rankings for your area of study...

[Nosebleed]

^
Thanks for all the help. Really appreciate it.