[ScientiaOmnisEst]

The Case Against Psychiatry: Why Psychiatry is Evil and Must Be Abolished

I found a link to this online today and can't get it out of my thoughts now. As someone who has long considered mental illness/problems/etc to be a part of her life, either regarding myself or others, this is kind of killing me, to think that we're all just weak, stupid failures who can't handle our lives, so we swallow claims about disordered thinking, blindly following our social norms and feeling there's something wrong with us, whatever not may be.

I'm a little skeptical of the original claim that mental illness doesn't exist because there is no reliable evidence for biological causes. That's semantics; call them mental disorders then.

The author's discussion about suicide terrifies me, as someone who has sought help of my own volition for suicidal (and other self-abusive) ideation. What I get from that essay is we shouldn't help someone who's suicidal, at all. Maybe even encourage it - they are perfectly rational and there's nothing wrong with their thinking, since there's no such thing as mental illness, and you can't be sure of what they're really feeling, you shouldn't violate their autonomy and right to self-ownership by trying to stop them from making the ultimate free decision. By extension, one shouldn't be disturbed by suicidal thoughts, and should not seek help, because that's just social brainwashing, nothing real or valid.

By this, I should be dead. I'm also a terrible person for valuing life and being internally troubled by someone suicidal, partly because of personal identification. But, as the article asserts, you have no right to impose your values on someone else, and we can't fully understand all the nuances of why a person feels their life isn't worth living, so we can't, shouldn't "help" them. The cognitive dissonance is real. I know I've wanted help in those moments. I know a few people online who are glad they didn't follow through with suicidal thoughts, because things did get better...

Okay, tangent there - but the problem still stands for those mentally and emotionally troubled who want help, want a diagnosis. Diagnoses, according to these articles, are effectively insults, accusations of thought-crime for being abnormal (this kind of bugs me if we want to make the mental illness/physical illness. The author even alludes to it. I mean, the things we call mental illness rather obviously cause problems in people's lives, regardless of their cause. Might as well say that a medical diagnosis is accusing someone of having an abnormal body). Though the entire issue of force, I think, is a good one. Yes, that does sound like a problem, and something to be remedied. But it should be optional, the same way physical medical help is optional. That sounds logical... though it does bother me that someone who could have been helped should be allowed to die because of incomplete thinking or information...

Please discuss, I'd love to hear other thoughts here while I organize my own.

[ManOfConstantSorrow]

There is something very wrong with me.

In the 1950s, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) was a thin pamphlet with a few dozen mental disorders. TODAY IT IS 947 PAGES LONG AND LISTS 347 MENTAL DISORDERS. Consequently, there's a good chance that everyone has at least one mental disorder.

It's a lot easier to convince a psychiatrist that you're psychopathic than convincing a psychiatrist that you're not psychopathic. Try it sometime and you'll see what I mean. The truth is that everyone is a little bit psychopathic. Also, did you know that telling a psychiatrist that you have a mental disorder when you don't is a symptom of a mental disorder? Think about that.

[eskielover]

I agree with kindness..honestly I don't think there is really a person that doesn't have something going on with them that wouldnt be considered a mental illness or disorder. Shoot when I was trying to sort out what I had been dealing with for 33 years in my bad marriage I was pointed to Asperger's & in researching that it not only described my x-H but also my dad....& social anxiety made my mother the dysfunctional person she was....they behaved the way they did with or without a dx....so take away the label it doesn't make them any less dysfunctional because of their behavior....people are what they are label or not it's just that the label gets them help to learn skills they are missing in order to live a more functional life without everyone having to deal with the dysfunction which usually has very negative consequences not just because people don't just accept them the way they are....those ways usually are causing personal problems or no one would bother to notice.

[Nammu]

It just popped into my mind..that back in the 1950s when the DSM was just a pamphlet the state hospitals were horrendous places where many were sent often with no real diagnosises other than failure to fit into their predetermined place and experienced horrible treatment. Today with the many pages of diagnosises Manu struggle to find doctors and treatment. Somewhere between the two extremes there must be a sweet spot with less labels and more humane and accessible treatment.

[vonmoxie]

I agree with the basic premise; there's nothing any more wrong (or right, or true) with any one of us that isn't ultimately true for all of us. (I am we as you are me and you are he and we are all together etc. ~John Lennon; I shouted out, who killed the Kennedys, when after all, it was you and me etc. ~The Rolling Stones.) I suppose I think of all mental orientations as existing on a spectrum, some less stable than others and some admittedly more dangerous than others.. but as these are all outgrowths either of human biology or of the social evolution we humans are responsible for manifesting, all points on the spectrum are simply differences normal to the situation, and from which no one is wholly exempt.

Not saying that we shouldn't provide people with help in adjusting to the world we live in, but the game of whose supposed normalcy is superior to whomever else's is not one I care to play. (If they started referring to "disorders" as "orientations" though, it would call into question the need to pathologize and treat such things, especially to the unwilling or unwitting. Follow the money.)

We're all oddballs, just of different feathers. I don't find these differences to be demeaning though, but uniting. Regardless of whatever mental struggles may be particular to me (and there are many), I know that my life has no less value than anyone else's, that I represent as significant a section of the collective human life force as anyone else. I don't believe in normal, only in differences.


Perhaps if our pathologies weren't all the hostage commodities of the pharmaceutical complex, the psychiatric industry might have a better shot at helping the future of humanity. I tend to think its foundation is just too corrupt though.

The truth is that I'd rather occasionally feel suicidal, which I find to have been a completely normal reaction to some of the horrendous situations that have come through my life, than to forever feel less alive, less sad and less happy and less anything, by ravaging my body being a lab rat for a litany of unnatural drugs. (I respect others' choices to take them, but those drugs have only ever hurt me, and not unsignificantly.)

My late husband suicided. Yes, a part of me wishes he would have kept taking the g0dd@mn lithium and led whatever anesthetized style of life would have kept him alive, but in truth I remain a believer in the right to die even today, and respect his choice knowing the nature of the despairs that plagued him and for so very many years, and which he became convinced he could no longer fight. Who can judge another's pain and choices? I do wish he was still here, I wish it every day, but I don't judge him; nor myself.

[vonmoxie]

"Nothing's wrong" is actually a favorite inner mantra of mine, because I had a childhood full of being made to feel wrong about everything, even about my very existence, and have found maybe nothing more validating than to continue actively relieving myself of that unfortunate demonization. Nothing's really wrong with me, absolutely! I'm as beautiful a human being in both my uniqueness and my sameness as any other human being, a child of the universe deserving to be here etc. etc.

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

I'm honestly a little surprised by the responses so far, given this is a site for those with these disorders that don't actually exist, these dysfunctions that aren't really problem.

Originally Posted by vonmoxie

My late husband suicided. Yes, a part of me wishes he would have kept taking the g0dd@mn lithium and led whatever anesthetized style of life would have kept him alive, but in truth I remain a believer in the right to die even today, and respect his choice knowing the nature of the despairs that plagued him and for so very many years, and which he became convinced he could no longer fight. Who can judge another's pain and choices? I do wish he was still here, I wish it every day, but I don't judge him; nor myself.

First, I'm sorry for your loss.

Yet, allowing psychologically-driven suicides to happen troubles me. Each one strikes me as a needless loss, and not necessarily that the person should have been on drugs. And yet I support the right to die with regard to physical degeneration and disease, something irreversible...I don't know what I'm missing, or not getting.

Psychiatry seems to be overreaching. An example is Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD). Children as young as 4 have been diagnosed with ADHD. One of the presenting symptoms is a temper tantrum.

[Cat_Lover_58]

My mind went in another direction with this. Some interesting finds I've made while searching the family history files. Uncle Louie listed as only being in the Army for 3 months. My mom says it was melancholy, if I'm recalling correctly. These terms come up on both sides of the gene pool. Melancholy, Hormones, Depression, Mid-Life Crises...

Some of the reasoning and terminology makes me cringe. What family members say and how they say it makes me angry. I don't really care. The people are long passed away.

The people now that are still alive and still speak poorly of some of these people and just where their afflictions took them rile me up sometimes.

Can't we just speak truthfully about these issues past and present..?

[eskielover]

There are also serious situational causes for mental illness. I had no idea that it wasn't my loss of career that was causing my suicide attempts but years later looking back since I wasn't successful I can see hou it was my bad marriage I knew was bad just NOT THAT BAD was really the cause. There were no meds that could fix the problem or make me feel better about it...until I finally was able to get out (felt like an escape) & could finally look back & see the big picture

[jacky8807]

Psychiatry in bed with pharm companies are to blame
Putting a six year old on 5 different psychotropic drugs for bipolar??
It's no wonder they is so much disbelief in their system

Also like the other poster said....much has to do with situation ,mostly in my opinion , childhood. If you went through abuse and neglect and unhealthy role models while you were developing., ..of course u will have depression and anxiety ect
But, I also do believe some ate just afflicted. Schizophrenia is a good example of brain gone wrong
My brain malfunctions but I swear sometimes it got worse after my intro to the world of meds

[Sesiley]

There is a "diagnosis" for anything and everything. Doctors call our problems something by title for professional records....which helps get us the medication and therapy that we need when we can no longer manage our daily lives. And in turn, makes it possible to be billed to our insurance.

And like addiction, mental illness is a very judged topic in society.

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[marmaduke]

No one has to take meds. If you feel strongly, don't take them. Simple.

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[-jimi-]

Does mental illness exist? Yes. Of course.

Have we figured out all about it, how to categorize it and treat it? No. Do we want to? I hope so! I really hope we can end suffering for many people. Contrary to what has been said, I think things like severe depression, severe anxiety and paranoia/psychosis can HIDE our true personality and limit our successes at expressing it.

Have we in the past been correct about MI? Have we treated MI patients with dignity? No. Do we want to get better about it? Yes. Heck yes.

Do I feel healthy when having severe depression or severe anxiety? NOOOO!

Do I wish to be "cured" of every quirk in my personality to become the ideal popular at the moment. HECK NO. But I don't see psychiatry today doing that.

[jacky8807]

Originally Posted by marmaduke

No one has to take meds. If you feel strongly, don't take them. Simple.

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I think we all know that
The discussion goes far deeper than that. Do you think young children should be medicated? They don't have a choice
Also meds can help of course but ppl really need to their own homework first
Many ppl blindly trust doctors and take whatever they give them
Medicine is only good if it works but how many ppl do you see on here who are never better but swear thy must be on meds forever?
I believe in meds but not blindly
I don't/won't believe in anything blindly

[ScientiaOmnisEst]

The issue I mainly had was that mental illness doesn't exist, or that it isn't a disease, disorder, or problem. And what that implies:

If it's a disorder, it can be treated. It's comparable to being sick even if there are no biological origins: you do what is necessary to recover, or to cope to be the most functional you can manage.

If it's just life problems, just feelings, that changes it entirely. If you can't handle it yourself, you're weak, stupid, morally bankrupt, undisciplined, a bad and pathetic person who can't handle life. It's all your fault so maybe you deserve to suffer, it's not like it's serious anyway.

That's the difference I'm worried about.

[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

If it's just life problems, just feelings, that changes it entirely. If you can't handle it yourself, you're weak, stupid, morally bankrupt, undisciplined, a bad and pathetic person who can't handle life. It's all your fault so maybe you deserve to suffer, it's not like it's serious anyway.

As I just mentioned on another thread, I don't think anyone is perfectly healthy; none of us lives in a vacuum of perfect development and growth, we're all afflicted with some variety of trouble.. therefore why take the particularities of one's own health profile so hard, as a reflection on our significance, our power, our essence? Most of my problems stem from horrific abusive I suffered as a child -- shall I look at it that I should have somehow been stronger? I could look at it that way; I've even had psychiatrists suggest as much (and wonder why in the heck they ever got into the field), but I know that my unique set of qualities has purpose in the grand scheme, that my strength ultimately comes from my sensitivity and knowledge, albeit over time.

I know it's easier said than done. When I'm in the midst of a major depressive episode I can hardly be convinced of my value in the world, and when that episode goes on for years in a row (which all of mine have) it takes on its own power.

But when I'm in my relative rightest mind, at least intellectually, I know better. I know that the lack of support and understanding society tends to have is not helping matters any, creating an environment that rates people based on surface effects, and that it complicates my recovery every time.

I just don't think feeling like one is "sick" is particularly validating, or even true since it's the way of the world, of science, of biology. Since everyone has something (the bacteria cells in our body alone outnumber human cells 10 to 1), what's the point of calling it illness, instead of differences, dynamics, focuses, etc.? We could still be helping people, without all the disease-mongering.

A mental or behavioral pattern that causes either suffering or a poor ability to function in ordinary life. I just defined a mental disorder. Thus you can be the most bizarre person on the planet and not have a mental disorder. To the contrary, you can be quite ordinary, but consistently get fired from employers because you can't make production quotas, and have a mental disorder.

[DisorganisedMind]

A person only knows their own experience. Everyone thinks they know depression as everyone has been sad and has grieved. How do they know that someone else's moods might not cover a greater spectrum than theirs? People don't like that thought as it sounds self-indulgent (my pain is worse than yours it sounds to them) but in the same way that some people's kidneys might not function quite as well as the average person then it makes sense that there would be people whose brains - which is after all a far more complex organ - might not operate (by the measure of mood) to the average level. I thought I saw something recently on BBC or somewhere about brain-imaging bipolar patients and how the hypocampus (if it's spelt like that) was markedly different in bipolar people? I do think there's something chemical or physical going on personally. I'm no neurologist myself but I think as that science advances they will uncover more evidence. After all, it was only a matter of decades ago when mental illness became formerly recognised beyond the terms lunatic yet I assume (I'm no history buff either) that you could go back through history and find cases of mental illness. Less than today but still present.

I struggle with this too as there's no doubt I create a lot of my own problems but there's something going on. What's my doing, what's symptomatic of illness, what's caused by events around me, how do those experiences differ to the average person?

Ultimately it makes no difference when you are in the eye of the storm. You just need to do and believe whatever is necessary to get through it. Let the moral judges make their judgements about good and bad, strong and weak, and whatever else from their ivory towers if it makes them feel better. For anyone else seriously afflicted you just have to manage as well as possible by any means necessary. There will be times when you can cope and times you need help. Extra guilt piled on top for suffering from the problem doesn't help but I bet we all do it. I know I do.

[SlayGuy138]

My experiences with 'psychiatrists' have been more bad then good. I think the whole 'I know you better than you know yourself' notion has been taken to its logical extreme and that's the root of all of the abuse. No one bothers to listen to the patient or their feelings, god forbid anyone display the basic human compassion to listen to what the person has to say about the root cause of their troubles, they only want to decide for them as a rationale to inflict further torture disguised as 'treatment'.

I find it a little ironic that I actually do think things are wrong with me, but the overwhelming attitude in society (held by psychiatrists, family figures and supposedly 'helpful' people) is that I made a deliberate choice to incur or perpetuate my suffering - victim blaming, essentially - aggravates my troubles, rendering me paralyzed and only further entrenched in my own constant misery.

People only give a ***** about the fact that mental illnesses happen, instead of the circumstances which brought them on. I'd say, more often than not, the illnesses in question are the natural responses in the brain to repeated exposure to horrible, pervasive factors in one's environment. Treat the cause, not the "symptoms".

[marmaduke]

I tend to think if some is really bizarre they might well have mental health differences.
Like Bowie for instance.

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[vonmoxie]

Originally Posted by marmaduke

I tend to think if some is really bizarre they might well have mental health differences.
Like Bowie for instance.

I think he took music therapy (and art therapy, and performance therapy) to an amazing level. Whatever his differences of mental dynamic may have been, he was the opposite of repressed.

Originally Posted by ScientiaOmnisEst

I'm honestly a little surprised by the responses so far, given this is a site for those with these disorders that don't actually exist, these dysfunctions that aren't really problem.

I must be on the wrong site, because my disorder actually exists, and my dysfunctions are really a problem.

[jacky8807]

Oh cmon guys
Mental problems exist
But the system is screwed

We are not our labels
Our dx should not be the sole focus of your identity,relationships,conversation
Every dx is waaaay over diagnosed now
Positive thinking does help (CBT is all about thought changing)
Pdocs over medicate ppl all the time who think they are better yet are not functioning as a productive person. Isn't that the point if tx? To be better? Sure you are numb from 56 pills but are you better?
We have to fight. Yes yes we all know its not our faults don't need to hear it again but that dosent mean we lay down and die
Self righteous behavior sux. Like ppl who get offended over a bipolar joke.

I read a story about college kids getting in trouble for work passed in late and announcing in from of whole class to the teacher they are late because bipolar
This type of stuff m
Is why the world dosent take some very serious issues seriously