[Kurushi22]

I need to know why people who go to prison don't get stuck with a life long label yet people who have a mental diagnosis have to carry one forever till their dying day.
If you go to prison and commit the crime and do the crime you get redemption. You have been punished and you have a second chance for a clean break.
Some crimes disappear off your record after so many years. But if an employer demands your health records and they find out that you have been unwell, you are practically screwed. A mental health diagnosis Is akin to a life sentence . I know many prisoners have mental health problems too but for people who have just been in hospital and were only a danger to themselves it's not fair.
I know times are changing. But I guess the stigma Is like racism or homophobia and we claim to have come a long way but we have barely scratched the surface.
That's my rant over and please give your view and correct me. I am British. I know that it's not the same everywhere.

[cryingontheinside]

Originally Posted by Kurushi22

I need to know why people who go to prison don't get stuck with a life long label yet people who have a mental diagnosis have to carry one forever till their dying day.
If you go to prison and commit the crime and do the crime you get redemption. You have been punished and you have a second chance for a clean break.
Some crimes disappear off your record after so many years. But if an employer demands your health records and they find out that you have been unwell, you are practically screwed. A mental health diagnosis Is akin to a life sentence . I know many prisoners have mental health problems too but for people who have just been in hospital and were only a danger to themselves it's not fair.
I know times are changing. But I guess the stigma Is like racism or homophobia and we claim to have come a long way but we have barely scratched the surface.
That's my rant over and please give your view and correct me. I am British. I know that it's not the same everywhere.

I am British too and I feel like there is so much stigma with MH. There seems to be alot more support for depression these days but other diagnosis I'm not so sure about . I'm deffinately afraid to tell people I have bpd . There was a time when I tried to tell some people that I had it . Apart from my family , all the people that I told tried to convince me that I did not have a mental health disorder and that I should ignore the professionals . Why did they do that ? Is it because it was too shameful to accept that I do have one ?
I didn't tell my brother that I have bpd but I guess he found out from my mother . He sent one of my friends some messages on face book telling him to stay away from me because I am mad . Also my brother does not like me or talk to me .
Nowadays I don't tell any one about my bpd accept for places where it is safe to do that like on here . I have depression too. I do tell some people about it . Some don't know how to react . But doesn't feel like stigma . With the bpd I deffinately feel stigma .

[Candy1955]

To both of you

[Rive1976]

I am in the U.S. and its like that here too. I know in Africa they sometimes kill people for it. I had a friend with schizophrenia. He said if he goes back they will kill him.

[eskielover]

If you go to prison and commit the crime and do the crime you get redemption. You have been punished and you have a second chance for a clean break.

Not sure where you got your facts from but they are not totally true. Some prison sentences stick with people the rest if their lives. Many jobs that require security clearences even say don't apply if you have ever had a criminal conviction on your record or have even been arrested.

I dealt with depression from 1994 until just a few years ago with more suicide attempts than I can even remember.....I went to wonderful intense therapy after I left where I was living & where my depression was so bad. I have pretty much healed from all the bad depression I experienced from 1994 until 2007 & lesser from 2007-2010. I have no labels that have stuck from that experience. Maybe if my behaviors were the same as they were then there may be a label but it would be appropriate.

Maybe changing environment & starting life over with a fresh start is a good thing if yiu don't drag the past along with you.

Just saying your situation is not always the case though it may be in many cases.

[katydid777]

I also think that there is stigma for MH. I was hospitalized a few times in the past, but now if my H want's to buy a gun he is declined bc of my hospital stays years ago. This is not fair, he wasn't the one hospitalized, I was, but he is the one being pentillized!!!

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by katydid777

I also think that there is stigma for MH. I was hospitalized a few times in the past, but now if my H want's to buy a gun he is declined bc of my hospital stays years ago. This is not fair, he wasn't the one hospitalized, I was, but he is the one being pentillized!!!

Wow I thought the other states had the same rule as Calif.... the 5150 (danger to self or others ) hospitalizatikn record goes away after 5 years. I was hospitalized more times than I even remember between 1994 & 2003 for suicide attempts & feeling that way & have no problem buying a gun. Yes, the record sticks for 5 years but no longer than that. Are other states that different?

After 5 years in Calif you no longer have to check the box about the involuntary hold....maybe your H doesn't have to check that box any more & why would he check it in the gun application when he wasn't the one who was held in the first place. Did he misread the question?

[*Laurie*]

Prison carries a tremendous stigma with it but at least ex-prisoners can hang out and live near other ex-prisoners. It's basically a sub-culture. Not a great one, but there's plenty of support systems in place.

I have a friend who was diagnosed with breast cancer last year; she said that as soon as she told friends and family of her diagnosis they were bringing her food, offering to pick things up for her, offering her rides, etc.


Try telling friends and family members that you have a mental illness. HA. They'll let you starve, avoid you like the plague, and on top of it all ask you if you really need to take medication.

I am so bitter about the stigma around mental illness, just about the only people I want to associate with anymore are people with mental illness who are trying to remain stable by being on meds and in therapy - and being on forums like PC.

[amicus_curiae]

Originally Posted by katydid777

I also think that there is stigma for MH. I was hospitalized a few times in the past, but now if my H want's to buy a gun he is declined bc of my hospital stays years ago. This is not fair, he wasn't the one hospitalized, I was, but he is the one being pentillized!!!

That’s just weird.

I’ve been hospitalized much more than a few times and once for 3-years and 5-months and I bought a new pistol and shotgun last year, supplementing two other guns purchased in 2012. I actually shot someone last year (a burglar with a knife, shot in his right thigh bone) and I didn’t lose my concealed carry license or suffer any repercussions.

All of my hospitalizations were voluntary and I’ve never been adjudicated as mentally ill requiring confinement. Are you in the US? You may want to contact your local FBI or a DoJ representative. Or have your H do it.

I’m no gun nut at all. But after five burglaries, three in my bedroom while I slept, I felt a stronger need for protection.

[amicus_curiae]

Originally Posted by *Laurie*

Prison carries a tremendous stigma with it but at least ex-prisoners can hang out and live near other ex-prisoners. It's basically a sub-culture. Not a great one, but there's plenty of support systems in place.

I have a friend who was diagnosed with breast cancer last year; she said that as soon as she told friends and family of her diagnosis they were bringing her food, offering to pick things up for her, offering her rides, etc.


Try telling friends and family members that you have a mental illness. HA. They'll let you starve, avoid you like the plague, and on top of it all ask you if you really need to take medication.

I am so bitter about the stigma around mental illness, just about the only people I want to associate with anymore are people with mental illness who are trying to remain stable by being on meds and in therapy - and being on forums like PC.

My (now deceased) neighbor had spent the majority of his life in prison. He had four years of probation awaiting him when he died. He had a terrible temper — threw 5 phones to the ground and destroyed all. He only lashed out at me a couple of times and me being me (the ‘old’ me?) belittled him. I think that he quickly grasped that I could not relate to his prison life... if someone spoke about prison, he was quick to relate. But we don’t have many ex-cons around here so there was no subculture for him to join. I actually came to believe that he missed being in prison.

Oh, yeah; people respond quickly to physical diseases like >>cancer.<< I’ve had the MI stigma for decades but once I had a little (and I mean to imply ‘small and treatable’) cancer suddenly everyone was concerned. The #1 question? “Is it terminal?” I always wanted to reply, “lord god, yes; I could go at any minute! Get that casserole over here now!” But I settled for a (sheepish), “no, it’s gone now.”

And when I get a case of that nasty stigmata, it becomes a circus around here.

I can surely relate to the idea that I need to live amongst those who are as tainted as myself. That’s why I come here. Because my transportation is so severely restricted I don’t have the ‘real life’ luxury of being amongst my own. This website (are there others like it?) can provide me with comfort, I guess.

I didn’t disclose the extent of my mental disorders until fairly recently. I told people that I was seeing a shrink because of panic attacks. Had I even began to mutter “schizo...” I would have been disowned. My ex, now aware of my borderline personality disorder, still believes it to be the same as narcissistic personality disorder. The stigma is bad enough — the ignorance is what is so overwhelming.

Being here might not be the best place for me. Outside of my shrink’s office, though, I don’t know where else to go. I’m seeing a new PhD/therapist on the 29th. I’m going to quiz her about a couple of things. One will be my participation here — is it good for me or bad for me?

I’m trying to, I want to, create a new life for myself. Or maybe improve upon the life that I have. There are too many obstacles at the moment. I can’t ask for an increase in antipsychotics, though. My delusion is broken and needs mending. Or I need a new delusion.

I am so ****ed up right now.

[katydid777]

Originally Posted by eskielover

Wow I thought the other states had the same rule as Calif.... the 5150 (danger to self or others ) hospitalizatikn record goes away after 5 years. I was hospitalized more times than I even remember between 1994 & 2003 for suicide attempts & feeling that way & have no problem buying a gun. Yes, the record sticks for 5 years but no longer than that. Are other states that different?

After 5 years in Calif you no longer have to check the box about the involuntary hold....maybe your H doesn't have to check that box any more & why would he check it in the gun application when he wasn't the one who was held in the first place. Did he misread the question?

We lived in Florida at the time. But it was the same here in GA. I will have to look up the laws here, bc my H shouldn't have had that problem, he hasn't done anything wrong, and doesn't have any diagnosed MI.

[katydid777]

Originally Posted by amicus_curiae

That’s just weird.

I’ve been hospitalized much more than a few times and once for 3-years and 5-months and I bought a new pistol and shotgun last year, supplementing two other guns purchased in 2012. I actually shot someone last year (a burglar with a knife, shot in his right thigh bone) and I didn’t lose my concealed carry license or suffer any repercussions.

All of my hospitalizations were voluntary and I’ve never been adjudicated as mentally ill requiring confinement. Are you in the US? You may want to contact your local FBI or a DoJ representative. Or have your H do it.

I’m no gun nut at all. But after five burglaries, three in my bedroom while I slept, I felt a stronger need for protection.

My hospitalizations weren't voluntary, but my H shouldn't have been penalized bc of me. He hasn't done anything wrong, and hasn't been diagnosed with any MI.

[Cocosurviving]

To the OP I’m not sure where you are located. I’m in the US and it is against the law for employers to ask for your medical records. Again I do not know where you are located but I would contact your state department of labor and ask them to mail you a copy of employee rights. During interviews in the US employers are not allowed to ask if you have children. The handbook will list other things they can not ask too. You have to know your rights and when they are violated file a grievance with the proper agency. That’s how we all can fight stigma.
My oldest daughter is currently IP. During the in take process her rights were violated. I have received two phone calls trying to smooth it over. But that will not fly with me. I already contacted the state office and had a grievance form e-mailed to me. The director of the intake center asked me what could should do to make things better. I told her to train her staff to follow the laws. I’m a Tennessee trained mental health social worker and I take patient rights serious.

As far as other friends or family making comments on whether you should take medication or not. I recommend setting boundaries. Let them firmly know the topic is off limits. I’m sure if they were taking cancer medication and you told them not to take it, it would be a different story. Some people you have to limit your time with. Also consider looking into a mental health support group. NAMI has them all over.

-Best

[*Laurie*]

Originally Posted by amicus_curiae

My (now deceased) neighbor had spent the majority of his life in prison. He had four years of probation awaiting him when he died. He had a terrible temper — threw 5 phones to the ground and destroyed all. He only lashed out at me a couple of times and me being me (the ‘old’ me?) belittled him. I think that he quickly grasped that I could not relate to his prison life... if someone spoke about prison, he was quick to relate. But we don’t have many ex-cons around here so there was no subculture for him to join. I actually came to believe that he missed being in prison.

Many prisoners do. A big reason why recidivism is so common. They're institutionalized; prison offers structure and a type of security. Good friends, good connections for whatever. But you know about this, a_c, so I'll hush up.


Oh, yeah; people respond quickly to physical diseases like >>cancer.<< I’ve had the MI stigma for decades but once I had a little (and I mean to imply ‘small and treatable’) cancer suddenly everyone was concerned. The #1 question? “Is it terminal?” I always wanted to reply, “lord god, yes; I could go at any minute! Get that casserole over here now!” But I settled for a (sheepish), “no, it’s gone now.”

Well, I'm glad you overcame the cancer - but I'm awfully sorry about the casserole

And when I get a case of that nasty stigmata, it becomes a circus around here.



I can surely relate to the idea that I need to live amongst those who are as tainted as myself. That’s why I come here. Because my transportation is so severely restricted I don’t have the ‘real life’ luxury of being amongst my own. This website (are there others like it?) can provide me with comfort, I guess.

I truly do hope that, in spite of things, you do find some comfort here. I have not found another mental health site that is nearly as active as PC is.

I didn’t disclose the extent of my mental disorders until fairly recently. I told people that I was seeing a shrink because of panic attacks. Had I even began to mutter “schizo...” I would have been disowned. My ex, now aware of my borderline personality disorder, still believes it to be the same as narcissistic personality disorder. The stigma is bad enough — the ignorance is what is so overwhelming.

Yes, yes, yes! The ignorance!

Being here might not be the best place for me. Outside of my shrink’s office, though, I don’t know where else to go. I’m seeing a new PhD/therapist on the 29th. I’m going to quiz her about a couple of things. One will be my participation here — is it good for me or bad for me?

I so understand why you're asking that question. And I so enjoy your personality and posts...selfishly, I hope her answer to you is, "It's good for you".

I’m trying to, I want to, create a new life for myself. Or maybe improve upon the life that I have. There are too many obstacles at the moment. I can’t ask for an increase in antipsychotics, though. My delusion is broken and needs mending. Or I need a new delusion.

I know how committed you are, how hard you're working, to improve your life. I see that so clearly.


I am so ****ed up right now.

I am so, so sorry to read those words. Please know that I am pulling hard for you. The psychologist on the 29th does sound promising.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Yeah sadly there's still too much of a stigma about mental illness

(UK here)

it does seem unfair, I agree.

I think an issue is (probably the main one) is that people don't want to do the research- they don't want to find out about these things- they just don't want to know, they have their own opinions- we're lazy, we can't make decisions, we're murderers, etc etc

and them edia doesn't help with that.

I don't know why depression seems a more acceptible diagnoses to have.

maybe it's a case of saying, well, everyone gets depressed at some stage- mental health or not, the world's cruel to everyone at some stage

I know it doesn't seem right, but sadly that's the world we live in

it's okay and normal to be "depressed", but get on to the subject of mood swings or obsessive behaviour, people are like... well why. are you making this up?

[amicus_curiae]

Originally Posted by shattered sanity

it does seem unfair, I agree.

I think an issue is (probably the main one) is that people don't want to do the research- they don't want to find out about these things- they just don't want to know, they have their own opinions- we're lazy, we can't make decisions, we're murderers, etc etc

and them edia doesn't help with that.

I don't know why depression seems a more acceptible diagnoses to have.

maybe it's a case of saying, well, everyone gets depressed at some stage- mental health or not, the world's cruel to everyone at some stage

I know it doesn't seem right, but sadly that's the world we live in

it's okay and normal to be "depressed", but get on to the subject of mood swings or obsessive behaviour, people are like... well why. are you making this up?

I’m not sure about the ‘research’ part — god knows that there are a lot of websites with different explanations of the same mental disorders. But I believe that you’re right — “they just don’t want to know.”

(Crazy Aunt Ethel lives in the attic.)

I think that mild depression is acceptable because many people feel a bit blue now and then. Most people, though, don’t end up in the hospital. Or comfortably sedated for yet another ECT session. Every mother takes an antidepressant. But antipsychotics? No, we don’t mention those.

When I tell people that I’m schizoaffective, they inevitably ask how many split-personalities I have and bring up that god forsaken book/movie “Sybil.” Try to correct them? Might as well spit into the wind. “They just don’t want to know.”

It’s infuriating — all ignorance is, I guess — but I don’t see any improvement on the horizon.

[Gus1234U]

i worked for many years helping 'stigmatized populations' access supportive services; was specially trained in 'ex-felon re-entry' and after acquiring a brain disorder from being poisoned by psych med and old stupid docs, i was trained in the Rights of People with Disabilities, under the Federal Rehabilitation Act of 1972 and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. Still,,, STILL,,, i find that psychiatrists and other doctors are NOT aware that we have rights and they have responsibilities.

i have several times resorted to Requests for Accommodations under the ADA, but this last Pdoc i saw took the cake. he said: "I will NOT be told what to do by a patient~!" (and he stood up and leaned over toward me to be sure i understood he was threatening me~!) i am just too tired to call the Civil Rights lawyers. the last time i played with them, it took 2 years for them to respond, and then she treated me like a leach.

i remember knowing nothing about prisons, and psychiatrists... and how i wish i was that ignorant again~! but, i live in a world now where i am in the gutter, looking up, and not in the cat-bird seat looking around...
my heart goes out to anyone who has to deal with public health services, or worse, the Veterans'...

[den88er]

Originally Posted by cryingontheinside

I am British too and I feel like there is so much stigma with MH. There seems to be alot more support for depression these days but other diagnosis I'm not so sure about . I'm deffinately afraid to tell people I have bpd . There was a time when I tried to tell some people that I had it . Apart from my family , all the people that I told tried to convince me that I did not have a mental health disorder and that I should ignore the professionals . Why did they do that ? Is it because it was too shameful to accept that I do have one ?
I didn't tell my brother that I have bpd but I guess he found out from my mother . He sent one of my friends some messages on face book telling him to stay away from me because I am mad . Also my brother does not like me or talk to me .
Nowadays I don't tell any one about my bpd accept for places where it is safe to do that like on here . I have depression too. I do tell some people about it . Some don't know how to react . But doesn't feel like stigma . With the bpd I deffinately feel stigma .

It is a prison to me. Or maybe more like I'm under house arrest because I really don't go out very often. A lot of times when company comes over to visit the family I go to my room and shut the door.

Originally Posted by Kurushi22

I need to know why people who go to prison don't get stuck with a life long label yet people who have a mental diagnosis have to carry one forever till their dying day.
If you go to prison and commit the crime and do the crime you get redemption. You have been punished and you have a second chance for a clean break.
Some crimes disappear off your record after so many years. But if an employer demands your health records and they find out that you have been unwell, you are practically screwed. A mental health diagnosis Is akin to a life sentence . I know many prisoners have mental health problems too but for people who have just been in hospital and were only a danger to themselves it's not fair.
I know times are changing. But I guess the stigma Is like racism or homophobia and we claim to have come a long way but we have barely scratched the surface.
That's my rant over and please give your view and correct me. I am British. I know that it's not the same everywhere.

Don't worry, it will change
Stigma is going to destroy civilizations, I assure you that

[amicus_curiae]

Originally Posted by katydid777

My hospitalizations weren't voluntary, but my H shouldn't have been penalized bc of me. He hasn't done anything wrong, and hasn't been diagnosed with any MI.

You’re absolutely right.

If you and/or your spouse need a gun or guns for personal protection, I would urge you, once again, to contact your local FBI office. They really are ‘the good guys.’

How long has it been since your last involuntary hospitalization? When I tried to get my 1999-2002 records from the state institution, I was told, “sorry, bud; we don’t keep records that far back.”

Made me feel like a mentally deranged dinosaur.

Originally Posted by Gus1234U

i worked for many years helping 'stigmatized populations' access supportive services; was specially trained in 'ex-felon re-entry' and after acquiring a brain disorder from being poisoned by psych med and old stupid docs, i was trained in the Rights of People with Disabilities, under the Federal Rehabilitation Act of 1972 and the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990. Still,,, STILL,,, i find that psychiatrists and other doctors are NOT aware that we have rights and they have responsibilities.

i have several times resorted to Requests for Accommodations under the ADA, but this last Pdoc i saw took the cake. he said: "I will NOT be told what to do by a patient~!" (and he stood up and leaned over toward me to be sure i understood he was threatening me~!) i am just too tired to call the Civil Rights lawyers. the last time i played with them, it took 2 years for them to respond, and then she treated me like a leach.

i remember knowing nothing about prisons, and psychiatrists... and how i wish i was that ignorant again~! but, i live in a world now where i am in the gutter, looking up, and not in the cat-bird seat looking around...
my heart goes out to anyone who has to deal with public health services, or worse, the Veterans'...

It proves the point that as harsh as it is to bear - stigma can never be removed, if the subject in question has been made for people who are considered inferior from above
Sorry, I know this is hard to hear this, but there is some truth for it. It takes putting oneself in the shoes of leaders across the world, thinking how to manage the people "from below"
Harsh truth, but it helps understand

However if the topic of mental health is actually about health, then there is no point in stigma, as health is a universal concept of us as people, and to have mental health exclusionary to people who are diagnosed with mental illness would be like giving physical health only to the people who are diagnosed with physical illnesses - we all deserve to be equally healthy, despite the inequality seeming to become increasingly visible

And I still want to amplify the idea that mental health is something that since is considered to be the same as physical health, needs protection as much as the physical body

[Gus1234U]

if one removed the body from the equation, would there be any mental ?
the first error of reasoning is to separate 'Mental Health' from all other forms of health. one might even postulate that brain chemistry disorders and environmental deficits contribute equally to 'mental' health... nature vs nurture, it's an old old debate...

as for the deserving and the undeserving: "the poor you shall have with you always".

Originally Posted by Gus1234U

as for the deserving and the undeserving: "the poor you shall have with you always".

What are you implying with that statement?

[avlady]

For me, the stigma is not so bad. There was a time before i was diagnosed here my best friend at the time told me she thought it was all in my head and i was making things up, or they were just things everybody has. not true.i was found to have schitzophrenia and depression and she hit the ceiling on me. When i was put on meds she got even worse. it is my body and mind so i really had to stick up for myself and lost her as a friend, i havn't seen her for 30 ears now. She gave up on me.I know i have it for sure, was even institutionalzed for a summer, back in the first days, and i am on meds now which help very much, although i refused them in the beginning but the docs said i had to take them in order to get out of the hospital. In the 1980s it was harder to refuse meds i think. things have changed alot on psych wards as i've learned after being on them a few times into the 2000s. the help is nicer, they can't shoot you up with drugs anymore like they did with me, whenever they felt like it. They actually have to talk to you now too. Before it seemed they didn't even care. that is my story. The stigma doesn't seem as worse here in NY state.