[AlteredState01]

Because I sure would like to send my prayers for him too, and his family, including those who were killed and injured...

So much pain...
So much needless pain.

[pachyderm]

Not a prayer, but it's fine with me. We pray for him, we pray for ourselves.

[eskielover]

I looked it up on the internet. It is so sad when young people feel they are so hopeless. I got from the story that at the age of 3 his parents divorced & that he was in foster care for his whole life. He dropped out of school. Was having mental health problems but was living at a friends house with their parents for the last year.

His girlfriend had just broken up with him & he had just been fired from his fast food job for stealing $17 dollars. He took the assalt rifle from his stepfather. Showed it to the family he was living with but the mother thought the rifle was to old to be functional. He left a suicide note about how worthless he was but that he would be famous now.

How sad that people get to that hopeless of point in their young life....future ahead but can't see it because they are blinded by the hurt they have had throughout their lives & see no way out.

My prayers for his family & the family he was living with along with the families of those killed & injured by him.

Debbie

[pachyderm]

> Was having mental health problems...

I cringe whenever I see or read that. Another crazy person to fear. How little understanding that he could be anyone.

[AlteredState01]

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Not a prayer, but it's fine with me. We pray for him, we pray for ourselves.

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Uh, I don't really understand your statement. Could you elaborate a bit more?

[Perna]

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pachyderm said:
How little understanding that he could be anyone.

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But not just "anyone" would do that. I don't think you or I would? I think it helps (as well as hurts) to identify people as having mental health problems as more people become aware. No foster mother is going to see a kid holding a rifle and "think it's too old to be functional" anymore?

[Mr_Unstable]

Well, I never pray, but if it's not 'allowed' to pray for someone, with a good intention in your hart, I see even less what the use in praying is.

'was heaving mental health problems' - yeah, I don't like hearing/reading that either. But it's just true that someone without emotional problems wouldn't do a thing like this. But maybe it would be possible to put it in another way, so people wouldn't say "just another nutter", like f.e. "someone that's gone through a lot in his life: parents divorced at three, had been bullied at school for being different, just lost his girlfriend, probably the only real thing in his life, lost his job because he needed 17$ to get him out of trouble, and they only paid him minimum wage, had few friends because he got to the point where he couldn't handle all of the %#@&#! that he encountered in his life etc. etc."

Maybe then people would just think about how much fun this world is to live in. Maybe they'd, just for a moment, think about what they're doing to somebody when they start bullying that kid that isn't all that fashionable. Maybe they'd think "hmmm... something is probably wrong with this kid, maybe I'd better try to help him" instead of "lol, you won't get far with that gun!" when somebody is screaming at them "I'm going to kill all you f#ckers!" with a gun in their hands.

Maybe American voters would realize that allowing guns isn't about 'freedom', but about killing people, and a gun manufacturing lobby sponsoring the campaign of their president. "Hell, I bought myself a tank: aint nobody gonna take my tv-set... at least nobody that'll get to see another day!" Maybe voters would think about this video instead of running of to the cops saying "Hotdamn, some commie posted this video... gimme a gun man, I'm gonna blow his head offa his shoulders"

[pachyderm]

[I'm] Not a pray-er. In general, I find value in prayer only in that it expresses our wishes for someone's well-being. Lots of people could use that awareness that others are concerned, I think.

[pachyderm]

> But not just "anyone" would do that. I don't think you or I would?

Unfortunately for me, perhaps, I CAN see myself doing something like that. There but for the grace of God go I. If I am putting myself outside the bounds for people here on PC, then I am.

[EJ711]

I will be glad to pray for all of the people who lost loved ones during this terrible incident, and the lady who took the shooter into her home, and tried to help him. Under my belief system, only the living need prayers.

I agree with Debbie that it is extremely sad that so many young people feel so hopeless that they make the decision to take their lives, and in this case other lives.

EJ

[AlteredState01]

Ah. Understand now.
Thanks!

[AlteredState01]

Uh, wow. That's quite honest of you...

[AlteredState01]

It's a different kind of democracy.

[pachyderm]

> it is extremely sad that so many young people feel so hopeless that they make the decision to take their lives, and in this case other lives

Why do you think this is so? What does it say about this society that we live in?

[heyjoe]

since this was posed as a question, ill give my opinion. He wanted to be famous and remembered. So now he is infamous, ridiculed and dead. He chose to do what he did, problems or no, Ill save my prayers for those who are struggling to live well or who are sick or dying. This is one of those times that i hope there really is a hell.

[AlteredState01]

Sometimes I think incidents like this are an expression of our times. Everything is so extreme! Our actions, reactions and desire for extremism in every aspect of our lives, is insatiable!

I'm not surprised that it has come to this in our society and I think we will see more of these, more often.

And I think it's sad that my generation's children need to feel that fame or infamy is needed to be noticed and acknowledged.

heyjoe, let's all hope we all don't crack that way.

[wisewoman]

Alteredstate I pray for him to finally find peace. I pray for the victims and their families to find some kind of peace and solace with their arbitrary losses. I pray that maybe we can learn from all of these shootings that our culture is not supportive enough for young people. and some others I Pray that our precious children grow to feel included in a world of giving and caring. And finally I pray that NO MORE KILLINGS! Heal, get out of war, heal the country, give our young people a sense of meaning.

[EJ711]

Pachy,

I think too many teens, or people in their early 20's, whose brains are not yet fully developed, see suicide as the answer.

The moral fiber in our society is not as strong as it used to be.

The shooter obviously did not have a stable upbringing, and I think it is very tragic that he could call killing so many people as "going out in style".

EJ

[pachyderm]

> The moral fiber in our society is not as strong as it used to be.

My mother would have said that my "moral fiber" was deficient when I was still very young.

I am not sure that the "moral fiber" was ever any "strong"er than it is now. My impression of our society is that it has been pretty ****ed up for quite a while. And by "our" I don't mean just the U.S.

I think it is time to make some changes.

[nowheretorun]

imo.. why not pray for the down people? .. what could it hurt?

[(JD)]

A gunman opened fire Sunday in a training center for young Christian missionaries outside Denver, Colorado, killing two people and wounding two others, police said.

A gunman entered the dormitory in Arvada, Colorado, early Sunday.

The lone gunman walked into Youth With a Mission, began shooting and then ran away, according to Susan Medina of the Arvada Police Department.

A man and a woman, both in their mid-20s, were killed, Medina said. Two men, ages 22 and 23, were wounded, but Medina would not provide their conditions.

Didn't know if I should respond here or start a new thread? and had to take a few days, as my memories had me in a whirlwind for a bit---my own experiences in addition to...a cousin was murdered(closing his store one night) by a gunman when I was 10-- he was older, married and had 4 little girls(6 months to 5 years old)-- then they lost their daddy.

While I can understand those that wish to give loving thoughts to people suffering...... I find it against my better judgement to think kind thoughts of someone that has killed another human. Why couldn't he have just done himself in? not that that is OK either-- just-- many many people suffering in similar ways and even at the hands of horrific abuse(even in childhood) don't go and kill people that had nothing to do with their suffering. Believe me-- I've seen horrific circumstances, volunteering at a homeless shelter and those people don't go and kill someone else.

I mean no disrespect to you alteredstate-- I really don't.

I just wonder if others that may have a tendency to this sort of thing will think-- "Well, look-- they will forgive me in the end, no matter who I kill or how or why"......
It's sad how year by year as a culture- we tend to look at this kind of thing as becoming a part of life!

I'm with "heyjoe" on this-- if there is a hell, I hope the ones that kill others for their own self-satisfaction/fulfillment find themselves in such a place.

I don't know--- I hope I've not crossed a boundary here........ just that, your post was worded as a question "Can we pray for Nebraska Shooter?".... and so I thought I'd answer why I don't think so. I don't feel remorse or compassion for anyone that kills another human-- that had nothing to do with their situation/circumstances.

Yes, it is too much pain and needless pain-- I agree.

with all due respect to you,
mandy

[KathyM]

They say he first approached the missionary school around midnight asking for a place to stay for the night - according to about 30 witnesses from the Mission. There was snow on the ground, so I'm assuming it was because he was cold.

I find it strange that missionaries in training either weren't allowed or couldn't find it in their hearts to provide this young man with shelter from the cold. Isn't that what they are supposed to be doing - showing God's love and helping people in need?

It would be interesting to hear the explanation they gave to him for turning him away, as well as the level of respect they showed this stranger. Were they kind to him in their refusal, or were they fearful and angry at having their Christmas party interrupted?

I'd also like to know how many times this young man had been turned away in his life by people who are supposed to care - or claimed to care?

Yes, I'll pray for him - along with the young man from Nebraska.

[Rio_]

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mandyfins said:
Didn't know if I should respond here or start a new thread? and had to take a few days, as my memories had me in a whirlwind for a bit---my own experiences in addition to...a cousin was murdered(closing his store one night) by a gunman when I was 10-- he was older, married and had 4 little girls(6 months to 5 years old)-- then they lost their daddy.

While I can understand those that wish to give loving thoughts to people suffering...... I find it against my better judgement to think kind thoughts of someone that has killed another human. Why couldn't he have just done himself in? not that that is OK either-- just-- many many people suffering in similar ways and even at the hands of horrific abuse(even in childhood) don't go and kill people that had nothing to do with their suffering. Believe me-- I've seen horrific circumstances, volunteering at a homeless shelter and those people don't go and kill someone else.

I mean no disrespect to you alteredstate-- I really don't.

I just wonder if others that may have a tendency to this sort of thing will think-- "Well, look-- they will forgive me in the end, no matter who I kill or how or why"......
It's sad how year by year as a culture- we tend to look at this kind of thing as becoming a part of life!

I'm with "heyjoe" on this-- if there is a hell, I hope the ones that kill others for their own self-satisfaction/fulfillment find themselves in such a place.

I don't know--- I hope I've not crossed a boundary here........ just that, your post was worded as a question "Can we pray for Nebraska Shooter?".... and so I thought I'd answer why I don't think so. I don't feel remorse or compassion for anyone that kills another human-- that had nothing to do with their situation/circumstances.

Yes, it is too much pain and needless pain-- I agree.

with all due respect to you,
mandy

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I have to say, I've been thinking the same. I don't think any circumstances could justify doing something like this - it affects so many lives. And in cases like this, the person in question will never show any guilt or remorse over what he's done, and has also escaped justice (unless you believe in an afterlife, which I don't). Once was too many, but this sort of thing seems to be happening all the time now!

I probably shouldn't be reading this thread in the first place, but I keep coming back to it.

[AlteredState01]

Beautiful, mandyfins! Your response, I mean. It is exactly what I was looking for - a completely honest perception - explained!!

Please, no disrespect taken. This is such an open question that I would expect each and every answer to be just as it was meant to be - a personal one!

I'm borderline. I can see and feel both sides, (actually, I can see and feel many, many sides - always opposite in each of their perspectives, too).

I can so understand your point of view.

I can also understand the intensity of the anger of that kid, although, being brought up in a different generation and on a different diet of - how shall I say - what is acceptable or even popular behaviour, my take on "going out in style" would be so much different. Infamy was not an option, nor really a desire, for the average suicide victim in my parents' and even my generation.

I gotta admit though, I sure as hell thought of nuking the world (or certain parts, anyway). I've even relished in the thoughts of some of the ideas I've concocted to take out someone I thought was evil, or just hated. (I really stay away from thoughts of hatred - they are too much of a trigger and always take me down quickly).

It just blows my mind to think that this is our reality and happening to our kids, but on the other hand, I am not really surprised at all!

I can't blame kids and their attitudes. I know where they came from. If there was ever a generation of messed-up people, it has got to be ours (I'm talking boomer generation)! And if that's the case with us, what of our children? But that's another subject and have digressed.

I just keep coming back to the pain and the anger. Especially the anger. It IS so violent; so much more homicidal in behaviour that accompanies the suicidal behaviour.

It just makes me wonder about the level of pain that is being experienced out there by our babes. I don't know how I made it through my young life with the level of hatred and anger and pain that I felt. (Well, my mantra was: "Sex and Drugs and Rock & Roll" - that helped me escape/deny it for about 15-20 years). And I know it is so much worse for our kids out there. So much more hard-core, in every aspect of life now.

I don't agree with how people choose to take their lives when it includes taking out innocent people with them - it's bad enough theirs is taken by their own hand.

I just keep focusing on their pain. I don't know why. I'm kinda embarrassed about it, because all my thoughts should be with the victims(?).

Who, if any, is going to think of the soul that felt he/she had to go to such extremes to show their being(pain)?

Not many, I suspect.

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Yes, it is too much pain and needless pain-- I agree.

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BTW, I don't even drive because I am afraid of killing someone. Uh, I don't really know why I wrote that....

Thanks for your candor, mandy!