Very frustrated with the US school system.

I totally agree that the way education is funded across the US is a problem that needs to be addressed. Inner city schools and rural schools should not have funding issues because they are located in poorer areas. I'm not sure what the answer is but dialog needs to take place so that funding is adequate for all school districts.

The state of Ohio is supposed to fix its school funding process as ordered by a judge .. however, polititians seem to be dragging their feet. I hope they get it together and fix the funding.

Ah but did I say this, or you? </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
If a student has not learned, it is the teacher's fault"

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> You.

I said, if a student has not learned, the teacher has not taught. Think semantically.

I placed no blame, just a fact. The teacher may have presented, in all earnest, but if the teacher has not reached a student where the student is, and where the student has learned something, then the teacher hasn't taught, but presented.

Anyone can present something. Indeed, I have often presented at seminars with no way of knowing if anyone learned anything. (Well, until they share afterwards.) It takes an evaluation for me to know if I taught.

I don't trust the grading system, I don't trust the testing systems. No one person learns exactly like the next, and no one person tests well like another either. Tests are often flat, one parameter, and easy to grade and do not indicate the level of learning the student is making, or indeed a good teacher could see by what the testing shows where they need to retrace their presentations.

I don't wish to throw blame or fault around, this situation is so much beyond that! Besides, it does no good.
I truly believe that if we developed the excellent critques necessary to honestly evaluate students and teachers, then we will know exactly where we are, and where we need to begin to solve the problem. People who have studied and developed their skills with test development and statistics can easily adjust for false answers and personal opinions so that results are true tests of skill and knowledge.

It behooves me that with all the intelligent people involved, and with all the needy, anxious students, and with all the concerned parents, that this issue has not been adequately addressed. Perhaps lawmakers are not the best ones to be doing it?

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
bebop said:
there is a school here in Ga and last week the principle actually told the teachers there would be no F's this semester. what???? so no child got an F. teachers had to issue a grade that was not failing so the school did not lose funding.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

My district is...interesting.

We're not allowed to give a grade below a 50%. Students can retake tests until they pass. Oh, and I am discouraged from giving homework (i.e. if a parent complains about the amount of homework I give I get told to give less or not give any).

We're getting out of kids EXACTLY what we expect from them. Nothing.

I could go on for hours. But I won't say much.

I think that sometimes it has to do with teachers but a lot has to do with the kids themselves.

When I was in school one of the teachers would put all the pretty girls up front (he liked to look up their skirts) and all the undesirable students in the back.

Just remember that while teaching is the ultimate goal...there are other circumstances in the school itself that go into play such as abuse, favortism, etc.

<font color="purple">Not to break the stereotype of "imorality" here, but I've always been respectful of my teachers, and well, people who are older then me. And alot of people are like that too (at least were I live) the way I see things is that kids have no real good role models these days to help them. Their parents would probably like to- but let's face it most family needs two incomes to support their lifestyle these days. So what are children left with? The media, now, it's not to say that it's inheritantly bad, but most parents that I have observed don't take advantages of ways to monitor what their children are watching so it's something more age apropriate. I'm not trying to dumb kids down here- but I don't think it would be very smart to let your elementary school kid oplay games like Grand Theft Auto and watch popular shows like CSI that depict alot of graphic violence.

Heck, I remember when I was a kid we were really nice to the highschoolers or other bigger kids (wouldn't you if you saw someone twice your size?) but these kids now run their mouths because they know we can't do anything.

BACK ON THE SUBJECT OF SCHOOL

I'm not sure what optoins like virtual schools would be available. I live in a rural school. (Infact my bus ride is aprox. 1/2 an hour because I remember timing it once ) we don't even have many afterschool programs to begin with (especialy in comparrison with larger schools)

I agree with the idea that alot of it falls on the students as well, though it might not necesarrily be their fault- they just learn alot slower then I do, therefore, the teacher has to accomadate them by going slower with the material and repeating the same information over and over and over again. </font>

Again we have this assumption that more money equals better education

This line of argument is called

Assuming the conclusion

if money were the answer tell me this people

1. Why is that DC which has spent over $10,000 per child, the highest in the country amoung the worst performers in the rankings?

2. Why is that the US which has the HIGHEST PER CAPITA spending on education not the best in the world?

As for a judge ordering more funding, this is actually un-constitutional, according to the constitution only the legislative branch can raise taxes or authorize spending. This was also tried in Kansas, millions were spent on all kinds of upgrades, after 5 years the test scores not only were flat, but declined in some areas. I urge you to read the research on this before making blanket statments!

Until our model is completly re-designed no amount of addtional funding will produce the desired results.

The current method of funding schools was determined to be unconstitutional within the state of Ohio. The legislature is under court order to come up with another method of funding. They have not done so yet - we are all anxiously awaiting a solution from the state legislators. Currently, in the state of Ohio, funding for a school district is largely collected from local property taxes. So in a poorer district, the local school district has less funding. Which results in large classrooms, less money to repair aging infrastructures, less money for classroom materials, etc.

I believe that more than money is needed for our public schools both in Ohio and across the country. More money is not the total answer. Local school districts need leadership and community involvement. More money is great but what is really needed is good role models, community leadership. We need people in the community to volunteer within the school and get involved with the students on a personal level.

If one dad could take one vacation day a month and volunteer to be on the playground of his son or daughter's school and engage the kids in a game of catch or football .. that would be a wonderful teaching opportunity. Some of the kids never hear a kind word from an adult in their life. Some kids don't have parental involvment within their home or maybe they do but just on a limited basis. Caring adults spending time with youngsters teaches more than money can purchase.

I feel that as citizens of this country we need to save our public schools, we need to volunteer and get involved so that all children have the opportunity for an excellent education. Every school has different challenges that are unique to that school. One school might need a more peaceful playground experience and need adults to step forward and help. Perhaps the science teacher would love to have an outdoor science learning module but doen't have the ability to ready a garden area outside. Wouldn't it be great if a parent could volunteer to bring some rakes and shovels for the students to use to ready the soil, etc. Wouldn't it be great if another parent could bring in some seedlings or seeds. The teacher could teach the science lesson but the entire experience would be enriched beyond measure by the adults within the community being involved.

If an urban setting, wouldn't it be great if one of the parents knew about hydroponics ?? and could actually setup a hydroponic garden for the kids ?

Those are just examples - I am sure that once community leaders, parents etc got started that all kinds of great ideas would develop. This is more than money - this is giving your time and knowledge. This is what I am suggesting.

peace

I really think we're all on the same page here, or at least in the same book!

No, throwing money doesn't automatically fix things. However, I guarantee you that by not paying a teacher what they are worth (meaning a well trained, experienced teacher) means you aren't going to have that person in the classroom teaching. What you get are former substitute teachers who didn't complete full certification and were moved into the full time slot because they are there and will work cheaply (and who think it's great that they don't have to spend more money on education and now have a full time job.)

Don't get me wrong, I don't think any of us are talking about everyone here... I think we are all speaking in general terms for the system as a whole. We all know of some very good, excellent even, teachers ..even some who came in the back door!

But there are so many that are coming through the cracks in the system, that it's almost the norm now... background checks are glossed over; the teacher was a substitute and everyone likes him, they come on recommendation of a friend, etc.

The lack of credentials adds to the problem, is what I'm saying...and funding is a part of this.

You didn't find me in the system with my teaching degrees (and even one certification to instruct physical ed)... one reason was the lack of money. How many doctorate level teachers do you find in the regular school system? How many master degree holders do you find on the middle school level? The people I know who are working their brains out to gain a higher degree are doing it to get OUT of the regular school system and move on to where they get better pay.

The monies alloted for education in the USA are thrown at the problem and not well managed. Often a county highs a big gun doctor to come in and solve the problem, sometimes he/she has a business degree only, sometimes an educational degree only, and sometimes no personal skills at all! Then, they also need to play politics!

No, money won't solve the problem but it is part of the solution imo.