[pachyderm]

Listening to the radio program this morning called "The Infinite Mind" where they say:

"We hear from health experts who tell us that incredibly, people with serious mental illnesses are dying 25 years earlier than the rest of the population."

I felt that the "experts" discussing the subject discussed everything around the edges (including the other people that should take responsibility, such as "the federal government" -- which is not a person) but did not consider the possibility that the treatments themselves (especially that medications are so widely used) are so unsatisfactory at dealing with the issues that confront the treated population, they so fail to meet the needs of the sufferers, that the quality of life of these people (us) is so bad that we are not encouraged to feel that we deserve any better and to see that we take care of ourselves and demand actual listening to our issues. I do not mean that the use of medications is problematic because of "side effects", but that their use itself, instead of paying attention to our issues, is problematic.

Of course, those who practice other than medication therapies can not listen, too.

I went to the Web site of the program but did not see any way to give them feedback directly, so I am dumping that here.

(((pachyderm)))))))))))))
I have found that one of the best ways to help ppl is to listen...
I agree with you ppl every where need to listen better.
muffy

[Irine]

From what i understand the medication is used to reduce the SIMPTOMST of mental illness and not to really HEAL you.

You heal when you find the reason, the root cause,,,and core belief...that leads you to live with subconcious tenssion or whatever....

In away, it seems to me that in order to cure it you HAVE to go through the symtopms.

I udnerstand the need to reduce them becasue you can`t live like that, but when you are not connected to your real feelings, and thus - to who you really are, i don`t know if it you can find it...or to lest others find it.

I agree with you

The only way out it through

I also think that society should be more tolerent. open minded to such people. They have an illness but except for it they are people like anybody else....

ho - and of course- that our life stile today is TOTALLY UNHEALTHY unnatural....look at us...it the main reaosn i think. our society.

that`s why people have mental illness.This speed of life. This materialism egoism, big lonely cities, big demands at wors..i am sure anyone of you can add some more!

[nowheretorun]

we want fair representation!

hope I am not putting myself out on a limb here
But when doing statictics you have to take in account enviroment
what meds they took as some could have been recalled
how they passed on?
I did cancer studys all this came into play.......
on the #s

If in deed they are passing for no other reason ........than that something imo should be done...
as every life is worth saving.......................
just my thoughts
muffy

((pachyderm))
sucks the radio ppl dont have a place for direct feedback...
statistics take in heaps of things the fact that we all might be dying 25yrs earlier has nothing to do with anything really when u take into consideration all that stats do..
they obviously did not want to go anywhere near treatment dicussions since that it all controversal.. there is the opinions that meds dont do anything and then theres the other view.. the first view taking the belief that medicine knows nothing of how we get unwell in the first place and knows only vaguely about neurotransmitters and the relation they have to being unwell and hence medications work that way..
its not an easy topic whatever angle u take but that doesnt mean we shouldnt discuss it..(by we i mean the world)

[314159pi]

i haven't heard the radio broadcast but if it's npr a podcast should be available.
i assume the npr statistics are correct. i do not accept your reasoning as to why this happens: i have my own strongly held opinions about this.
1) mentally ill people are poorer than the rest of the population because they are largely underemployed and unemployed.
2) mentally ill people need specialized doctors to deal with the side effects of their psychopharmacological treatments.
2a) their dentistry is worse due to dry mouth (from anti-parkinsonians). excessive plaque build-ups have been linked to heart attacks.
2b) they need good endrocrinologists. because there are hormonal problems linked to the use of anti-depressants.
2c) many mentally ill people are morbidly obese due to the lifestyle of weight gain associated with their medicines and excessive sleep.
3) many mentally ill people don't have a healthy diet because they can't afford it.
we can all benefit from talking about this and not blaming our p-docs for our problems. hospitals don't often encourage active lifestyles for the mentally ill because they need to avoid being sued for exercise machine injuries,e.g.
and most of us are too tired to work out.
i would love to hear from anyone here who has thoughts about this.
-pi

[(JD)]

Good points pi! I would also question just WHERE were the patients they were talking about, in institutions maybe?? IDK.

Plus, many homeless people are mentally unwell. Living in the elements without proper nourishment, social contacts, purpose of life... dying 25 years sooner than most maybe? Go figure!

[pachyderm]

Yes, but WHY is their health so much worse than the general population? There are probably a lot of contributing factors, but my thought is that a whole lot is due to demoralization (and I don't mean lack of morals). I think that this demoralization (if that is what it is) is due partly to unsuccessful treatment due to the profession not even understanding the actual causes of the illnesses. And I think the actual causes are to be found in people's lives and not in "chemical imbalances" (where do the "imbalances" come from?) or cat viruses or whatever can be found to avoid paying attention to their real lives.

((pachyderm))))
I do not know if this helps and its only a very small piece of insight....
I do believe to many ppl are lost in no health care...
Hope you are ok with me using true examples as I know them...
if not sorry

My brother in law has huge issues...when he worked he had health ins.
When he worked he did Coke and drank beyond belief..ended up not working lost health ins.....died at age 52 I think....

A cousin of mine suffered all his life....his very short life...His parents were wealthy took care of him....Due to his issues ((drugs) he got aids ...never made it...was very young...Had health ins...

My dad depression all his life....had health ins....left this plant early prolly about about 10 to 15 years earlyer...could not take my mom being ill...so he left...

My grandparents minister....Very smart man. Had his doctrine...Issues no one saw ...had health ins...left in his 40s...

My best friends brother ((was my babysitter))) very smart great guy...no one picked up how big his problem were....left in his 20s.....
I could on but i am not going too........

Your right we all need to pay attention to whats going on in ppl lifes...Drs need to pay attention...Health care needs to be there for all....
Your right on "actual causes are to be found in people's lives "

hope this was ok.....
I am a big one on we all matter ...and i really mean that....
muffy

[serafim_etal]

I also would be interested to find out EXACTLY what population the broadcast is referring to. 'Serious mental illness" does not tell us much. Was the sampling random? How large of a sampling? Is it possible that the sample population was too specific? (ie: homeless, white men, with schizophrenia, not receiving meds/treatment) Who were the controls? Where was the study done? By whom? Was there even a study at all or is this just a quote from some random "health expert" who is not even identified? Just things to consider.

[pachyderm]

Here is the Web site of The Infinite Mind (actually it is the site of Lichtenstein Creative Media):

http://www.lcmedia.com/

and here is some of what they have to say about this week's topic:

This week on The Infinite Mind, "Dying Before Our Eyes." We hear from health experts who tell us that incredibly people with serious mental illnesses are dying 25 years earlier than the rest of the population.
Plus a look at the common medical conditions causing these deaths. What are they, and how can they be prevented? And with this alarming mortality rate for this segment of the American population, why isn't more being done to address the problem?
We speak with Linda Rosenberg, President and CEO of the National Council for Community Behavioral Healthcare; Dr. Benjamin Druss, Rosalynn Carter Chair, Rollins School of Public Health at Emory University; and Dr. Joe Parks, Medical Director of the Missouri Department of Public Health.

[(JD)]

Yes I hear what you're saying pachy.

( Demoralization is an abnormal mental state which may accompany depression or a severe illness. Demoralization is a perception that one is unable to cope effectively with severe stress. Features of demoralization are depressed mood, feelings of inadequacy, mistrust, confusion, low self-esteem, hopelessness and helplessness. )

What you are talking about is the undermining of their morale along with them having to deal with their mental unwellness, right?

The illness itself causes so many issues, and then add the sense of being an outcast in society, well, that really weights the issue.

Is there a solution you have in mind, other than what is being done?

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by _Sky

What you are talking about is the undermining of their morale along with them having to deal with their mental unwellness, right?

I think the attitude of society, the stigma, contributes to the unwellness. The stigma is not confined to general society, but exists in the mental health profession to some extent too. I think inability to tease out what causes "mental illness" contributes to unwellness in patients and to their demoralization.

I have in mind something like this: at least some people have written that Freud discovered the sources of mental illness in the "maltreatment" of his patients in their early childhoods -- to the enforced repression of their emotions and thoughts. But this "discovery" of his was received badly by his society, and he could not stand the disapproval he found. As a result he reformulated his theories to put the onus more on the patients themselves than on their experiences.

Is there a solution you have in mind, other than what is being done?

I am not sure what is being done! If it is the growing realization that mental illnesses are related to childhood trauma, then I think that is good (because I think it is accurate). If it is that medications are being seen as the answer to everything, then I do not think that is good!

yes stigma definately contributes

[Slippers]

Here is a big pdf written by the National Assoc of State MH Program Directors. The title is "Morbidity and Mortality in Persons with Serious Mental Illness". Warning - it is 87 pages long.

http://www.nasmhpd.org/general_files...al%2011-06.pdf

If it's the sort of thing you are interested in, there is a lot of very good info there.

Slippers

[Sannah]

Pachy, eastern medicine believes in the idea of the energy fields which cross the body. Emotional issues can block these energy fields and reduce health. I totally agree with it.

I also don't like the way our health care system functions. It is based on treating symptoms with medicine instead of returning health with life-style changes (diabetes and high blood pressure = diet change with exercise, mental health issues = good therapy that really addresses the issues and empowers the client, acid reflux and other GI upsets = food allergies?, substance abuse = therapy, autoimmune diseases and allergies = alternative therapy, etc.).