[Perna]

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There is no clear line between a personality style and a disorder. Personality patterns are considered to be a disorder when they impair a person's functioning and cause stress.

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From: http://tinyurl.com/5hj87o

Verrrrrrrry interesting, Docktor Freud. Haha, sorry. Okay. Um, I have always wondering that myself-- this is my personality? How the %#@&#! did I end up making it so that my entire personality is a disorder? I think the pathology and the natural perosnality intertwine, thus forming the personality-- me, I wouldn't give up my BPD for anything in the world. However, I would like to someday take some of the traits and turn them into more positive elements. For example, every negative trait has its positive opposite. BPD people are intensely afraif of abandonment-- positive opposite of fear of abandonment? Deep caring. Self injury-- a destructive, yet creative form of self expression. It's positive opposite? Writing, drawing, creating. So I believe it is all intertwined but it becomes a disorder when it is pervasive and trancends through all aspects of one's life-- work, school, home, etc.

[donut_61]

Thank you for that Pinksoil. My H has BPD. I only wish he would view it as positively as you do. He spends most of his time trying to cover up the emotional pain with drugs. You are an encouragement!

[bluenarciss]

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pinksoil said:
every negative trait has its positive opposite. BPD people are intensely afraif of abandonment-- positive opposite of fear of abandonment? Deep caring. Self injury-- a destructive, yet creative form of self expression. It's positive opposite? Writing, drawing, creating. So I believe it is all intertwined but it becomes a disorder when it is pervasive and trancends through all aspects of one's life-- work, school, home, etc.

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Hi pinksoil,

um, to me it looks like you are mixing the positive and the negative into an unindistinguishable mixture. The positive does not need any opposites - it is positive in itself, I think. Being creative does not depend on being able to be destructive or self-damaging. Deep caring is possible without fear of being abandoned. A good and positive life can be lived without PDs. It is the same as with drugs, for example, which certainly also have "positive aspects" of intensifying everything. But at what costs...

I think there is more achievable than just getting used to the negative aspects of personality disorders by arranging oneself with them. Bad is bad, and will ever be - in my opinion there is no way around this, except beginning to deceive oneself over the real nature of things.

To me, connecting positive aspects to that what makes a personality style a disorder, is kind of giving up or giving in, of getting used to something one better should hold on seeking a way out of it. I think this is important. The aim is to come to the real thing, to live the best way, not secondbest.

Positive thinking can be very supporting, but only if there actually is some positive object to it. Thinking positively about negative things can have harmful consequences. Positive thinking should not be deceptive. And denial does not solve problems, they will still be problematic.

At least that is my opinion, and I regard this as important enough for a reply. Better say something than keeping quiet (blame my T for this *wink*)...

Take care,
bluna

[bluenarciss]

Hello,

the maximum edit time has expired, so I could not edit my last posting anymore, but I would like to add that by telling my personal opinion I did not mean to offend.

Instead I just wanted to show that there can be other ways to see things, nothing more.

Best wishes to everyone who has a PD or lives with someone with PD,
bluna

[struggling931]

I think that, everything else aside, the term "personality disorder(s)" is like many in psychiatry/psychology, it is somewhat misleading and can create misconceptions.

I've heard it described in the professional literature as related more to how one interacts with others, thus more of an interpersonal phenomenon (so like an "interpersonal disorder").

The concept of personality (at least in the U.S.) tends to carry a lot of social value judgment baggage which isn't related directly to MH issues, IMO.

[Perna]

I think personality is personality and it's more about the "style" versus the "disorder". I think how one "uses" one's personality, how one displays it, acts on it, expresses it is what makes the difference. Everyone gets angry but there's a "good" way to express it and a harmful to self/others way to express it. I think personality is like that, learning what one's person is like and what one enjoys/one's "style" and then how to express it so it expresses one's self and doesn't hurt one's self or others.

[Doh2007]

I wanted to weigh in on this subject and finally found the book I was looking for called The New Personality Self-Portrait: Why You Think, Work, Love and Act the Way You Do. by John M. Oldham, md and Lois B. Morris (http://www.musc.edu/psychiatry/faculty/oldhamj.htm)

"Psychiatry concerns itself with disorder. Our primary concern in this book is to delineate the normal, adaptive personality styles that the disorders take to an extreme."

Here's an example:
Self-Confident Style corresponds with Narcissistic Disorder
Serious Style corresponds with Depressive Disorder

There are 18 styles and disorders described. It's kind of cool to look at the positive side of personality for a change. If you want me to look up anything, let me know.

[Perna]

It reminds me a little bit of the difference between someone who is "negative" and someone who is good at finding "problems" which may need correcting.

[Doh2007]

Like between just complaining or truly looking for solutions for problems.

[Zenobia]

I think that is where I got stuck in therapy, I kept complaining about what was wrong instead of actively seeking out a solution. Sometimes it is necessary to cry about what was but it is more important to move past it. I think that is why my childhood experiences developed into a disorder. I couldn't move past the "complaining" stage into the "fixing" stage. I never learned how because I wasn't allowed to complain verbally so I was never shown how to fix my problems as they arose during childhood. My therapists tried to help me move past the verbalizing stage but the steps were always too big for me so it all seemed so daunting. They gave me the tools but I didn't know how to get them out of the toolbox and use them to fix anything. I am starting to figure it out now, but....mostly I am clueless.

Did I get off subject? Sorry.
Zen

[Doh2007]

At least you're farther along than you were when you began. It took me a while to find the right therapist. I got something from all of them, but one in particular really helped me. (Not off subject at all. You're welcome to say anything.)

[MyBestKids2]

I don't mind so much having a diagnosable disorder...It doesn't make me who I am, nor defines my life.

[mindedness]

It is so difficult to let our children have their own journey, is it not?

I believe, as you do, that what is most important is to show them support, how different it might be from how we see the world: to let them know that they are loved.....regardless of their difference!

cynthia

[mindedness]

So astute.....but what about the concept of psychological mindededness....does it not lend one into seeing human interaction in a different way.......
cynthia

[mindedness]

Where does it make sense in terms of psychological mindedness.....one's understanding of 'perhaps' the underlining rational of one's behavior or the understanding of the underlying rational of an other's behavior.....?

Where is the position where one places himself/herself when it comes to an understanding of the differences among people without sounding self-rightness?

cynthia

[nightbird]

(((cynthia)))

peace,
nightbird