[Hellion]

So my therapist gave me some info to look at on it so I read through it some, and from the description it seems too hard and potentially stressful. So yeah don't know I should really bother with it. It says something about replacing negative feelings with positive ones or something....and you have to believe those positive things, well not good at lying to myself.

Honestly I know this isn't a good thing really to look at it this way, but I almost feel like I might as well try just so I can prove it doesn't work on me...its pointless anyways, all the meds in the world are pointless to....I mean what is so much better about pharmacuticals than drugs you get on the street...either way its drugs to relieve the mental pain and eventually its just not enough whether its a pharmaceutical or not.

Going off topic of my own thread now, but anyways why bother.

Originally Posted by Hellion

So my therapist gave me some info to look at on it so I read through it some, and from the description it seems too hard and potentially stressful. So yeah don't know I should really bother with it. It says something about replacing negative feelings with positive ones or something....and you have to believe those positive things, well not good at lying to myself.

Honestly I know this isn't a good thing really to look at it this way, but I almost feel like I might as well try just so I can prove it doesn't work on me...its pointless anyways, all the meds in the world are pointless to....I mean what is so much better about pharmacuticals than drugs you get on the street...either way its drugs to relieve the mental pain and eventually its just not enough whether its a pharmaceutical or not.

Going off topic of my own thread now, but anyways why bother.

Well I understand. I tried emdr and it didn't work for me, but I was the first person she tried it on.

I also did cognitive processing therapy and omg, I've never felt worse. I had to write out all the abuses I went through, then, read it to myself for a couple of weeks then read it to her. Then we had 4 more sessions and we were done. I was not at all in any way shape or form ready to be done. I mean I just shared 13 pages of horrific abuses. And I didn't even share all of it!!! I wonder about therapists. And in cognitive processing therapy its all about your thoughts are wrong and u need to think differently. ********, what happened to me is what's wrong.

Anyway, I feel you.

[JaneC]

Hellion, I know how you feel......I've been avoiding EMDR also after doing some preliminary work leading up to it, coupled with a bucket load of reading. Felt wrong to me, we may revisit at some stage.

sunshine...sorry you had such an awful experience, it really does sound more traumatising. Is there any way you can try to find another T? One that can take more time, and work up to things slowly?

[pattijane]

EMDR therapy is definitely NOT too hard!! You do not HAVE to replace negative feelings or beliefs with positive ones, and you definitely should not lie to yourself. With Adaptive Information Processing, your brain/body will lead you (during EMDR) to a place of adaptive resolution, in other words, detoxify the negative stuff, and help you find a way to have more positive feelings and beliefs about yourself in the process.

'm a psychologist who uses EMDR therapy as my primary psychotherapy treatment and I've also personally had EMDR therapy for anxiety, panic, grief, and “small t” trauma. As a client, EMDR worked extremely well and also really fast. As an EMDR therapist, and in my role as a facilitator who trains other therapists in EMDR therapy (certified by the EMDR International Association and trained by the EMDR Institute, both of which I strongly recommend in an EMDR therapist) I have used EMDR therapy successfully with panic disorders, PTSD, anxiety, depression, grief, body image, phobias, distressing memories, bad dreams, and many other problems. It's a very gentle method with no significant "down-side" so that in the hands of a professional EMDR therapist, there should be no freak-outs or worsening of day-to-day functioning. EMDR therapy has a ton of excellent research behind it validating its efficacy.

One of the initial phases (Phase 2) in EMDR therapy involves preparing for memory processing or desensitization (memory processing or desensitization - phases 3-6 - is often what is referred to as "EMDR" which is actually an 8-phase method of psychotherapy). In this phase resources are "front-loaded" so that you have a "floor" or "container" to help with processing the really hard stuff, as well as creating strategies if you're triggered in everyday life. In Phase 2 you learn a lot of great coping strategies and self-soothing techniques which you can use during EMDR processing or anytime you feel the need.

In phase 2 you learn how to access a “Safe or Calm Place” which you can use at ANY TIME during EMDR processing (or on your own) if it feels scary, or too emotional, too intense. One of the key assets of EMDR therapy is that YOU, the client, are in control NOW, even though you weren’t in the past, during traumatic events. You NEVER need re-live an experience or go into great detail, ever! You NEVER need to go through the entire memory. YOU can decide to keep the lights (or the alternating sounds and/or tactile pulsars, or the waving hand, or any method of bilateral stimulation that feels okay to you and your parts) going, or stop them, whichever helps titrate – measure and adjust the balance or “dose“ of the processing. During EMDR processing there are regular “breaks” and you can control when and how many but the therapist should be stopping the bilateral stimulation every 25-50 passes of the lights to ask you to take a deep breath and say just a bit of what you’re noticing, anything different, any changes. (The stimulation should not be kept on continuously, because there are specific procedures that need to be followed to process the memory). The breaks help keep a “foot in the present” while you’re processing the past. Again, and I can’t say this enough, YOU ARE IN CHARGE so YOU can make the process tolerable. And your therapist should be experienced in the EMDR therapy techniques that help make it the gentlest and safest way to detoxify bad life experiences and build resources.

Grounding exercises are essential. You can use some of the techniques in Dr. Shapiro's new book "Getting Past Your Past: Take Control of Your Life with Self-Help Techniques from EMDR." Dr. Shapiro is the founder/creator of EMDR but all the proceeds from the book go to two charities: the EMDR Humanitarian Assistance Program and the EMDR Research Foundation). The book is an easy read, helps you understand what's "pushing" your feelings and behavior, helps you connect the dots from past experiences to current life. Also gives lots of really helpful ways that are used during EMDR therapy to calm disturbing thoughts and feelings.

Pacing and dosing are critically important. So if you ever feel that EMDR processing is too intense then it might be time to go back over all the resources that should be used both IN session and BETWEEN sessions. Your therapist can use a variety of techniques to make painful processing less painful, like suggesting you turn the scene in your mind to black and white, lower the volume, or, erect a bullet-proof glass wall between you and the painful scene, and so forth. There are a lot of these kinds of "interventions" that ease the processing. They are called "cognitive interweaves" that your therapist can use, and that also can help bring your adult self's perspective into the work (or even an imaginary Adult Perspective). Such interweaves are based around issues of Safety, Responsibility, and Choice. So therapist questions like "are you safe now?" or "who was responsible? and "do you have more choices now?" are all very helpful in moving the processing along.

In addition to my therapy practice, I roam the web looking for EMDR therapy discussions, try to answer questions about it posted by clients/patients, and respond to the critics out there. It's not a cure-all therapy, however, it really is an extraordinary psychotherapy and its results last. In the hands of a really experienced EMDR therapist, it's the most gentle way of working through disturbing experiences.

And, BTW, The World Health Organization has published "Guidelines for the management of conditions that are specifically related to stress: "Trauma-focused CBT and EMDR are the only therapies recommended for children, adolescents and adults with PTSD. Like CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR therapy aims to reduce subjective distress and strengthen adaptive cognitions related to the traumatic event. Unlike CBT with a trauma focus, EMDR does not involve (a) detailed descriptions of the event, (b) direct challenging of beliefs, (c) extended exposure, or (d) homework." (Geneva, WHO, 2013)

[TheWell]

I did EMDR and ended up having a massive panic attack. I had started with a new therapist just for the EMDR and we hadn't built up any trust yet so after he let me leave his office while I was mid panic... It was never going to work for me after that.

I had to move on.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by TheWell

I did EMDR and ended up having a massive panic attack. I had started with a new therapist just for the EMDR and we hadn't built up any trust yet so after he let me leave his office while I was mid panic... It was never going to work for me after that.

I had to move on.

That is what I am worried about, just not sure I am comfortable with the prospect of using things like attempting to slow breathing or go to some mental safe place(which not sure i could create) if I have a panic attack I might need my Valium not deep breathing excercises. But don't know if you're supposed to take anxiety meds like in session.

But if it starts making me uncomfortable then I am not obligated to keep going if I start in the first place...though its not just panic attacks/flashbacks that could be triggered that I worry about.

Originally Posted by JaneC

Hellion, I know how you feel......I've been avoiding EMDR also after doing some preliminary work leading up to it, coupled with a bucket load of reading. Felt wrong to me, we may revisit at some stage.

sunshine...sorry you had such an awful experience, it really does sound more traumatising. Is there any way you can try to find another T? One that can take more time, and work up to things slowly?

Yeah I'm transferring from the agency I'm in now and getting a therapist from the place my peer counselor works at.

I guess that therapist I did the cognitive processing therapy with is notorious for rushing clients. And, well she was biased bc a lot of my abuse occurred in an organization that has a good reputation. She says she wasn't biased but imo she was. I'm hoping this new therapist works out. If it doesn't, I'm done with therapists and will just try every form of self help I can find. I might get Peter Levine books and see if those help. Right now though I'm broke. I'm just gonna hope for the best but be prepared for the worst...

Originally Posted by Hellion

That is what I am worried about, just not sure I am comfortable with the prospect of using things like attempting to slow breathing or go to some mental safe place(which not sure i could create) if I have a panic attack I might need my Valium not deep breathing excercises. But don't know if you're supposed to take anxiety meds like in session.

But if it starts making me uncomfortable then I am not obligated to keep going if I start in the first place...though its not just panic attacks/flashbacks that could be triggered that I worry about.

I've taken Seresta (oxazepam) two hours before a session because I really needed it at that moment. Was a coincidence that I had a session soon after.
I've taken it immediately after a session, too.

I've never yet taken it during a session. I would if I really needed it though. But it still takes half an hour before it has any effect so I do breathing exercises etc. until then regardless.
I would advise you to give the breathing exercises etc. a try and if they don't help enough you always have your Valium.

One tip: if you're afraid of diving in too deep, losing control, and such: do eye movements or hand taps, not the earphones. The TICK TICK TICK TICK so close to your ears was really threatening to me. It was forced right in my ears.
You are the one who chooses to do the eye movements. You can simply look away. And you're the one holding the hand taps - you can drop them whenever you want.

Just my two pence.

[Shmooey]

It was hard.

It was stressful.

but it was very worth it. As has been said, you need a really good therapist to guide you, and you will be glad you did it. And very important to repeat from the post above - unlike before, YOU are in control now.

[ThisWayOut]

I've done it, and I agree with shmooy. It was scary and intense, but so very worth it. I did end up taking a break for a few weeks, then moved across country so I could not finish. It definitely helps to have a therapist you trust.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Shmooey

It was hard.

It was stressful.

but it was very worth it. As has been said, you need a really good therapist to guide you, and you will be glad you did it. And very important to repeat from the post above - unlike before, YOU are in control now.

Guess I am afraid of what could happen if I cannot handle the stress it causes...stress is not something I handle well, and unfortunately I don't really have any friends/family who get how PTSD really effects or know how to be supportive...sometimes they stress me out more even un-intentionally.

So just worried about being alone with it between sessions and what not, I mean I have attempted suicide even before the event that caused the PTSD...and since then I've had to have myself admitted to the psych ward due to concerning suicidal thoughts twice and being overwhelmed/stressed was a major factor triggering that so its a concern. I suppose I can talk to the therapist who I'd be working with about that concern before delving into the therapy methods though. Not sure if it is a really good therapist though, its just the one they have through the program I have regular therapy through...so seems like it could be a hit or miss.

[Hellion]

I guess I won't bother.

[Shmooey]

You have some valid concerns. I had a very supportive family when I went through it, and I didn't work a regular job back then, I just set up displays at conventions and so only "worked" on two or three weekends a month. I didn't have to keep my head together otherwise and often did fall apart between sessions - couldn't help it. One reason a good therapist is essential - they have to pace the session so you're not left despondent with a five minute warning. A good therapist would never do that. They know how to structure.

I wouldn't use the words "won't bother," but what you need to decide is whether you're committed to follow through with it. You don't want to get stuck in the middle of something and decide not to go back. You don't need to commit forever, maybe set a goal to work on one specific issue using EMDR and then re-evaluate whether you wish to continue.

I have to admit, I'd be scared to start it right now myself, though I am about to go inpatient for two weeks. I'm too fragile at the moment to open up a wound without being in a protected environment. I understand if you're feeling similar.

[Teacake]

Originally Posted by Hellion

Guess I am afraid of what could happen if I cannot handle the stress it causes...stress is not something I handle well, and unfortunately I don't really have any friends/family who get how PTSD really effects or know how to be supportive...sometimes they stress me out more even un-intentionally.

So just worried about being alone with it between sessions and what not, I mean I have attempted suicide even before the event that caused the PTSD...and since then I've had to have myself admitted to the psych ward due to concerning suicidal thoughts twice and being overwhelmed/stressed was a major factor triggering that so its a concern. I suppose I can talk to the therapist who I'd be working with about that concern before delving into the therapy methods though. Not sure if it is a really good therapist though, its just the one they have through the program I have regular therapy through...so seems like it could be a hit or miss.

How were you diagnosed before the traumatic event?

I think the dsm says a person cannot be dxed ptsd If the symptoms post trauma.are an exasperation of preexisting traits or conditions. This is meant to protect people from being retraumatised by ptsd treatment that presumes a healthy enough fully formed adult at time of trauma.

I wouldn't try emdr on "Big T Trauma" anyway. A lot of practitioners think they know ptsd from working with victims of divorce and mail fraud. They will assure you they know ptsd, but panic when they see the first sign of the hyperarousal that accompanies threat to life trauma.

Most therapists are crap. A bright young social worker told how groups that in hospital. These folks work for money. Ive seen the most shameless acts to promote themselves to the ptsd market. Like one emdr provider local to.me solicits donationss to provide a session to a vet. Isn't that clever? Vets wont see her but others with "little t trauma" will give her money feeling solidarity with vets. Its income for her and the promotion Implies she works with military veterans. She probably thinks she is qualified to work with life threat trauma or combat trauma. These people can be dangerous.

Follow your intuition, Hellion. If your gut says dont do it, then dont.

Remember all, therapists get paid by the hour. They have a conflict of Interest when asked If they think you need or would benefit from their services. Its a hard economy. People push their erhics.

[Hellion]

Originally Posted by Teacake

How were you diagnosed before the traumatic event?

I think the dsm says a person cannot be dxed ptsd If the symptoms post trauma.are an exasperation of preexisting traits or conditions. This is meant to protect people from being retraumatised by ptsd treatment that presumes a healthy enough fully formed adult at time of trauma.

I wouldn't try emdr on "Big T Trauma" anyway. A lot of practitioners think they know ptsd from working with victims of divorce and mail fraud. They will assure you they know ptsd, but panic when they see the first sign of the hyperarousal that accompanies threat to life trauma.

Most therapists are crap. A bright young social worker told how groups that in hospital. These folks work for money. Ive seen the most shameless acts to promote themselves to the ptsd market. Like one emdr provider local to.me solicits donationss to provide a session to a vet. Isn't that clever? Vets wont see her but others with "little t trauma" will give her money feeling solidarity with vets. Its income for her and the promotion Implies she works with military veterans. She probably thinks she is qualified to work with life threat trauma or combat trauma. These people can be dangerous.

Follow your intuition, Hellion. If your gut says dont do it, then dont.

Remember all, therapists get paid by the hour. They have a conflict of Interest when asked If they think you need or would benefit from their services. Its a hard economy. People push their erhics.

I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety before the traumatic event...PTSD diagnoses came eventually after the traumatic event, as the symptoms have persisted. Also its sort of funny before that event I thought since I already had anxiety and depression problems something like that couldn't phase me since I'm used to mental pain.....that would be something I was wrong about.

I might still consider at least meeting with the therapist to see what sort of feeling I get around them...but if the initial meeting is uncomfortable then I'd probably look into other things or see if there are any therapists with good reviews or whatever who treat PTSD that medicaid covers.