[Jim_Crow]

some time ago i read an article to the effect that more clinicians are arguing that the dx of ptsd is inherently iatrogenic.

i wonder what those who have been dx'ed think?

my trauma is not post, never has been, since the causal injuries began 13 years ago, and i do not think, a `disorder' though very `disordering' (not sure that makes sense). while the MD who gave me that label 4 years into the ongoing and worsening trauma, did a very good job in checking his assumptions, etc. and at the time `ptsd' was probably the closest `label' that fit, it was secondary to a more severe brain injury which the trauma sort of `crowds out'. no one sees a TBI beneath trauma.

anyway- my personal experience has been that this label, depending on to whom and how it is applied can be worse than no dx at all. `mental illness' is a very abstract concept, and i have a very hard time seeing those with rational basis for fear as `mentally ill' vs. socially unacceptable.

i see the dsm version(s) of ptsd as grossly over assumptive.
while some people may fit this, ie. are safe, stable and receiving all the appropriate medical, social and legal support they require, i tend to suspect that a very small percent of those dx'ed with this fall into that category.

but- it implies such delusion that it has been used to `excuse' and overlook any further trauma, ie. `well i think you are just paranoid b/c you were traumatized once'.

i further suspect that this has to do with the social need to deny, deny, deny, that we have millions of people who just DO not gain access to services which are appropriate, or that anyone homeless is anything other than making a choice to be, etc. we have many more millions of people on the waiting list for sec 8 housing for eg. than we do units in this country. are ALL of these people comprising the `excess demand' homeless, as implied due to `mental illness' or `addiction'.

sounds rather logically flawed to me anyway.

then again, we have people who perhaps lived a hundred miles from nyc during 9/11 with the same dx as people who are being terrorized by stalking?

where is the help for `Current traumatic stress Reaction'? i am sick of trying to explain to clinicians reasoning backwards from that time 10 years ago when they read the description of ptsd in the dsmv, that this assumes the trauma has stopped, and since it hasn't, could we please focus on immediate safey issues, not my toilet training?

shutting up- wonder what others think????

[Kiya]

erm....sorry, i really don't understand... i want to post, but this is way over my head. can you describe some of the words' meanings?
i think that ptsd is too general since there are so many types of trauma and each person reacts differently. that said, many ppl have similar responses to it. idk hard to say.

[skeksi]

I think there is a diagnosis for current stress--"Acute Stress Disorder" (which turns into PTSD if it persists).

I don't think you'l find much agreement for your argument against PTSD here, as many folks found the diagnosis a great relief. I was certain that my symptoms, which had haunted me for more than a decade, meant that I was crazy. If you are suffering from Traumatic Brain Injury, that is another issue entirely, and I'm sorry to hear that you feel the doctors have ignored that in favor of a PTSD diagnosis and approach to treatment. People experience different things as traumatic; what is considered traumatic for some may be experienced by others as diffcult but not overwhelmingly so. Good luck n your search for treatment.

[Jim_Crow]

kiya-
thanks, i am sorry i worded my question(s) poorly! thanks for pointing it out though, i am gonna think about how i could rephrase and try again later.

[Jim_Crow]

skeksi-

thanks much for the feedback!

i think my poor wording, or maybe the fact that i am dealing with so much cumulative and ongoing stressors, while trying to talk about it (harder with each year that passes) has given the wrong impression.

i am not `against' ptsd as a concept. clearly, people do become traumatized, regain safety, but remain affected.

what i am pointing out is that this is not true for everyone and that some of us do end up in a circularly illogical and fruitless pattern of having been so affected (ie., in my case becoming disabled, not able to afford safe or stable housing etc.) that we are `not taken seriously' about current, specific, and very real risks to safety.

for those people to be dismissed, mocked or otherwise refused `help', on the basis of previous traumatization, with no effort to verify the facts as they stand currently, is what i am suggesting is iatrogenic (trauma or injury caused by medical `treatment').

fwiw- i don't actually think that some people being comforted by the dx, has any connection with it's applicability to others. i realize there are as many experiences as there are people, and what i am `against' if anything, is using a dx so broad and assumptive to apply to everyone who has been traumatized, resulting in the ridicule of those who in that time and space DO need help with safety.

i will both try to find the article(s) i first read about this, as well as try to think of how i might rephrase more clearly, sorry if i sounded like i was seeking validation.

my main motive is to find some key that i can use that will actually result in `help' for tangible needs, not navel gazing, though that is fun. i am trying to figure out, how i might overcome the barriers of access to the more specialized neurological treatment i need and have sought literally for years.

i also am trying to figure out how not to be treated like a walking stereotype, because that is triggering me so severely, i am becoming `conditioned' to fear continuing to seek appropriate `help'.

for now, i guess the best way i could put it is that in your case (and mine at first) before the dx, one worries that they are `crazy'. i recall even asking a friend of mine if people going crazy wonder if they are going crazy, so i do follow ya there and don't disagree with your point.

i am talking about being told without verification that since you've been dx'ed with ptsd, you only `think' you are unsafe because you are `crazy'.

i suspect that while a working memory deficit is a different thing than ptsd, or `complex' ptsd, ptsd is also a type of TBI. being adequately treated for the first could well have prevented the second.

your empathy means a lot, thanks so much. i should clarify too though, that because i am unable to secure sufficient access to a safe place to heal and rebuild, i have not had treatment (beyond meds to bandaid uncontrollable biochemical symptoms) for either trauma or TBI.

one has to be safe, in fact, ie. stop the injury(ies) to begin to heal. if i hadn't learned along the way that i am not the only person this is and has happened to, i wouldn't even bring it up. indeed for years i thought that was the case, that i was just in a very rare situation.

whoops i am babbling, so sorry.

will try to put this better......

thanks again, i appreciate your comments!

I was not diagnosed with PTSD until I was 38 years old. I really had no in-depth understanding of it except it was a dx given mainly to combat soldiers.

Once I understood what it was, I could (with jaw-dropping awe) trace the disorder all the way back to when I was nine years old. (It could go back further but I have no real memories before that time) My behavior began to make sense. Like you, my trauma continued almost daily for many years until I was removed from it when I left home at 21 and begin to stand on my own two feet. But as you know, with PTSD you get back up and SLAM. You fall down. Get up. SLAM. Fall down. That is how it goes for me.

It was amazing to me that they had a name for something I thought no one in the world understood. It was amazing to me that I survived that level of trauma and managed to make it as far as I did before the final collapse at age 38.

I can't begin to think what my life would've been like had someone been kind enough all those many years ago to "induce" a diagnosis on me and get me into therapy.

[Jim_Crow]

thanks again, this has already taught me or at least reminded me of some important things.

i am so glad that for those whom it seems to fit, are not finding a lack of appropriate support or are not experiencing the stereotyping which i and many others have.

i have thought of some ways to approach/explain this issue much better thanks to your collective feedback, but since i am new and haven't yet figured out how to do things like find the `t warning' icon, and want to check my admitted tendency to `verbally' overwhelm people with different backgrounds i am gonna keep processing that a bit b4 i give it another shot.

meanwhile, and being very general, since i am new i wanted to explicitly state that deep down, i am seeking a `good' reason, ie. one i know fits the circumstances and known `facts', why i cannot seem to `wish' or `work' myself back to equilibrium, wrt basics like housing and safety, or avoid the tendency for people to react to safety issues i express with some comment implying my toilet training is somehow the `real' reason.

so, i realize the purpose of this forum is mainly support and very much appreciate that, but hope others don't feel i will be unduly wounded if you tell me i am wrong.

if i could `learn' how, for eg. my toilet training (using this as a euphemism for things nebulous and distant in time and space) has caused landlords to refuse to rent to me b/c of my service dog, or the ER doc to refuse appropriate care when i've been injured, blah blah, that would be SO MUCH easier to `fix' than the need to navigate a disbelieving and rather hostile, `community'.

oh happy day that would be! seriously.

now my hypothesis, given the feedback here becomes is a ptsd dx likely to be iatrogenic IF one's issues are rooting in current problems with safety?

thanks for listening and the support!