For anyone who wants to withdraw permanently

I hear your point and I agree that often times nutritional changes are very effective. My point is that my decision was made with careful thought and well after trying other options like nutrition, allergies etc. I never said that these arent valid or even better alternatives for some people. What I am trying to point out is that sometimes it doesn't work or just isnt the right option for everybody (just like meds don't work for everyone). For every success story there is a horror story to counter it. We just can't say that there is one good treatment option and all others are bad...life is not that black and white. Some kids with ADD do excellent without ever takng meds. For them the diet changes and behavioral strategies work alone. Some kids need the meds. I know someone who gave her son ritalin starting at age 6. I can't imagine putting a kid that young on a drug like that. I wasnt going to tell my friend that though she believed in it and insisted he needed it. She still does and it is effective. He has no other behavioral strategies though, because she doesn't want her son labled. I think she's making a mistake, because meds alone aren't enough for her son, I can see it already. He needs behavioral help too in the classroom. My 14 year old has never taken it and he has ADD too, but I want him to go as long as he can, maybe forever, without it. Classroom interventions and therapy are enough.

Regarding diagnosing, I think you are missing the pount. A US doctor has to use the DSM to diagnose a mental illness. There is a lot of criteria to meet to get that diagnosis, it is not easy at all. You are not labled an addict in a clinical setting without meeting the criteria, one of which states that the behavior can not be explained by age. You aren't labled an addict by behavior alone anyway, part of it involves drug/ substance seeking behavior. Behavior that would not be considered developmentally appropriate. I definitely understand concerns of misdiagnosis, whether based on a rush to judgement or incompetence. That is wrong and harmful. On the other hand there are also times where a diagnosis is valid and necessary for treatment and insurance coverage. Also to avoid the worsening of a condition. Not every mood or anxiety or addictive disorder is treated with meds. To deny someone a proper dignosis and treatment because of stigma can be harmful too.

Yes, that's why I wrote and reiterated in several forms:

Quote:

nobody can completely know when they don't live with this everyday and part of having choices and experts that matter is about making informed decisions. It sounds like you are.

Sorry but this is incorrect. They do use the codes for insurance purposes, yes. But doctors only use it as a guideline and many do not deal with insurance. I have seen them slap a code down so they get paid. Frankly I only believe the depression diag. Everything else is a hypothesis in my case. No, I haven't missed the point. I have spent a lot of time learning the history and reading relevant parts of dsm and even attended a seminar where it was discussed in the context of bipolar. The DSM may help but it has also had a significant (let me repeat that) significant impact on definitions and treatment.

From a book review. Dsm was rewritten either late 70's or early 80's (forget exact dates).
I stand by my statement that a teenager is nearly impossible to be accurately diagnosed with addiction or a mood disorder and should wait until their 20's. (Autism is a different story for a few reasons although this is changing thanks to dsm changes.) Does that mean they aren't Bp or an alcoholic? No, of course not. Should they be treated as such? Maybe, maybe not. It was very popular to diagnose students with alcoholism in my hs. You went to detox and then we were bussed weekly to aa (boarding school). Were some of us alcoholics? Yes, my BFF for one. Am I? Nope. But I sure did look like one! My experience was not at all unique.

And I'm not trying to convince anybody to do anything. I am just relaying information and my opinion just like others have.

It is correct. I am in grad school for counseling and we are receiving trsining in the dsm. Two classes dedicated to it and it is used in the licensing exam. It is by no means perfect and if one chooses not to diagnose even if someone meets criteria I know they can. But to not use it when giving a diagnosis of bipolar or anything else? That is scary and unprofessional. Yes of course it is used for insurance purposes, but that is protection to some extent. It can be over done and you can always choose to get a second opinion. Regardless it is the professional standard and has been updated in 2013 most recently...the DSM V. I don't know where you live that psychiatrists don't use it to diagnose mi. When presented ith a case in a professional med practice they must go through the proper channels to diagnose, not just make something up based on their own ideas. All mh professionals should usethe same guidelines like any other prsctitioner. Otherwise they are making up a diagnosis, basically. One that sounds scary and is unprofessional. A psychiatrist that doesnt take insurance is one to stay away from. I agree that a bp diagnosis should not be given to kids.

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Not at all. Several of the best drs I know don't take it. For good reason. The ones I know actually have time to pay attention to new research and spend time with patients. You can still get reimbursed. It would just be out of network.

Cash-only doctors abandon the insurance system - Jun. 11, 2013

If you want people to accept your POV it might be helpful to respect that they may have done their research too. Actually they dropped the "5" so they can do iterative releases.

That depends on your insurance. Many do not reimburse you if you use out of network providers. Cash only doctors are making themselves available to only a select few - the ones who can afford their, generally, very high fees. The average citizen does not have the financial resources to do so. In my opinion a doctor who does not accept insurance is denying the most needy of access to good treatment.

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I dont think we disagree as much as it seems. Counselors can also use the ICD 10 (or 9) and the DSM IV. The DSM 5 has some scary changes to it that many clinicians will ignore.

I never said that providers should follow the DSM blindly and over diagnose every person, particularly children, who comes in with a complaint. When that happens its true that you see kids with bad tempers suddenly diagnosed with a number of bogus disorders and placed on meds when what they really need is structure, guidance and a behavioral program. The removal of Aspergers syndrome from the DSM is a tragedy and was influenced by insurance companies. Many people including myself were very disturbed by that. Children with Aspergers according to the DSM IV do not qualify under the DSM V. Luckily my daughter received her dx beforehand.

I simply think it can still be used as a tool to properly diagnose someone who has a serious mental illness. Many of the other lables in there are and will continue to be ignored. They actually may do away with the DSM altogether.

Yes we are mostly on the same page . In simplistic terms it is the over diagnosis, over prescribed and lack of information that is a big chunk of the problem.

Yes, agreed 100%. And my pdoc's study that I mentioned in am earlier reply (about patients who recovered without meds) is discussed in the book "Anatomy of an Epidemic: Magic Bullets, Pychiatric Medications...", if you're interested. Though he is an MD and prescribes meds of course, he has refreshing non pharma, patient centered approach to using them.

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I've read that book. What's his name?

His name is Michael Posternak. The study is by Zimmerman & Posternak, 2007

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