Survey for study on withdrawal

Good point. If you have TD there is probably not much you can do. The possibility makes me angry though. And it will probably continue unchecked for a long time. I probably won't address it with my pa. Just end the Zoloft, continue on the aruyvedic path and try to take care of myself. I don't think I can live with the thought of taking meds for the rest of my life because they f'd me up. I hope there is a class action.

I said far side of spectrum based on how you describe your situation... Lifelong, tried everything, treatment resistant, etc. High functioning usually means your doing well for somebody dealing with something heavy. But it's misleading to think you are ever going to get a completely accurate picture online, in text. You know better than I. That was just my take.

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You are always starting a new med, that's not cold turkey, its replacement you wont get withdrawal unless your stopping the med and taking nothing else. that's cold turkey. People who say they don't get withdrawals from a med but are taking another next day wont , SSRI, S you can swap from sertraline to Lexapro over night and wont even no you changed , YOU DONT COUNT THEM HAS WITHDRAWL What will you do when your klonipin stops working. .5 mg may give some effect for a short time, but if not raised in a few weeks is just placebo . Will you get it raised , if not then you will feel your first withdrawl if you stop a tiny 1mg a day

I didn't say cold turkey. The only time I said cold turkey was for Trazadone and Remeron and those I quit cold turkey without replacing them with something else. On and off Trazadone for sleep over the years. The times I quit trazadone it was cold turkey. Not saying that is a big deal or anything. I once switched from Remeron to an SSRI and those are totally different classes so you might be able to say it was cold turkey. The other times remeron was for sleep and I stopped without replacing it so that is cold turkey. I don't think that is a big deal though. I was on other meds the whole time though so who knows.

I never really claimed anything as withdrawal because I said I have not experienced it.

I say I have never had bad withdrawal effects because that is just a fact. Maybe it is because I was always swapping out maybe not. I can only tell you what my experience has been. If you go from an SSRI to a SSNRI does that prevent withdrawal effects? I don't know....probably so. If you switch from Remeron to an SSRI which are totally different classes did that prevent withdrawal. I don't know. If your switch from Wellbutrin to an SSNRI does that prevent withdrawal since they are totally different classes. I don't know. I have just said I have not experienced it because I haven't. I am not looking for a medal or something I was just answering her questions.

And what about all the people who switch from say Effexor to Zoloft and do have very bad withdrawal from the Effexor. It seems that alot of people do swap from one SSRI to another and have bad withdrawal effects. At least that is what they are claiming. How do you explain that?

I will cross that bridge when I come to it. It won't be my first withdrawal I can assure you. I have went through withdrawal from codeine before a few times. It was not long term use so it wasn't that bad but it wasn't fun at all either. I went through meth amphetamine withdrawal which was long term heavy use and the withdrawal lasted over a year with a three week stay in the mental hospital and severe psychosis the whole time. So I know what withdrawal is.

I don't know why you are so concerned about my Klonopin use when you take a boat load of Benzo's and have a big stash on hand.

Then i can't explain how my brother did it. He is a pharmacist or chemist as you call it. He had easy access to Vicodin. He is an alcoholic addict. He was addicted to Vicodin for many years. Started as one or two 5 mg tabs and ended with like 8 10 mg tabs a day. Now that is nothing like heroine withdrawal but he still should have had some pretty bad withdrawal. He got busted and had to go to treatment and get clean and sober or loose his license. I have asked him a bunch of times, how in the hell did you get through the withdrawal? He says he never had any withdrawal. I don't know how to explain that. He never went on any meds or anything. Has never taken crazy meds.

Then I have read on these board a lot of people claim they went off benzo's without any trouble after long term use. Not everyone is the same. And like I have said before I have taken pretty high doses of valium for a couple of months and quit cold turkey with out any trouble. You say that doesn't count. I really don't know, all I have is my experience.

I have been on the same dose of Klonopin, 1 mg a day, for two months now and no anxiety. Maybe it is just placebo. I don't really care. All I care about is no anxiety. I can't handle the anxiety and paranoia I was having. I'll whack myself over that ****.

No I agree with you. They may have said I was high functioning but I sure as hell didn't think so. Like I said on a scale of 0 -100 and 100 being the worse I would say I am a 75 or 80. In the big picture. Like you said. Lifetime of it, treatment resistant, the severity of them, the cyclical nature, getting worse as I get older.

Very very far above now I talked about how my great grand father spent the last 7 years of his life in deep depression. Only left his room to come to dinner once a day. 7 years the same thing!!! My Mom thinks he committed suicide but we don't really know. Back then you didn't talk about it.

It does seem odd that somebody could withdrawal from Vicodin without issue but who knows what people are capable of. When I quit smoking I had help with patches but there is still the whole psychological and social addiction. Something just clicked in my head. I can't really describe it any other way. Still, I think majority of people should have some sort of withdrawal unless they are taking something else, didn't take it for very long, took a tiny dose or tapered and are lucky.

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I am concerned about your klonopin because of you addiction probs. heroin is easier to get off than klonopin, 3 weeks your clear on heroin, its up to if you start again. BILLY BENZO is not so forgiving. You are right again I do have a stash but I don't touch them, would you be able to do the same . Tomorrow I ask to change my Lexapro to maybe Cymbalta thats SSRI to SNRI i will still take Lexapro in withdrawal decreasing has I increase the cymbalta my gp wont want me to do this he will want complete withdrawal before start up. That could take MONTHS OF PAIN. its just that you were giving posters the feeling you had withdrawn from loads of meds where really you have done a change over, that is not withdrawal , that is replacement

You are right I can't really say I have had withdrawal from meds because I did always switch over. I don't understand why in the UK they make you fully withdrawal from a med before starting on a new one. That is never done here as far as I know. If I understand you right you are not going to do that. You are going to do it the way we do it here. Slowly decrease the old one and at the same time slowly increase the new one. I hope you have enough Lexapro on hand. I have done this many times over a two week period. Even a week alot of times without any trouble. Like you said that is not withdrawal though.

As far as Klonopin what are my options? I could go with anti psychotics and see if those would work for anxiety paranoia. I was on abilify for the last two years and it didn't do crap for it. I don't really want to go the route of trying a bunch of anti psychotics to see if one will work. In my view they may not be addictive and have bad withdrawal but they are a lot more heavy duty of a drug. Then there are all the studies that say that they cause brain damage. I was on halidol for over a year when I went through that meth induced psychosis and I hated that drug more than anything. I don't know how in the world I stayed med compliant through all of that, the side effects were horrible. I am not afraid to try the new ones but I am weighing my options and i just don't think they will work for my anxiety/paranoia.

Then there is Busprar I could try. I don't have a lot of faith that it will work but it might be best to try it before benzo's.

I don't think any of the AD's work worth a crap for anxiety.

You are right I am an addict and it is risky. So far I have taken them as prescribed. If I had a big stash could I stay away from it....probably not. Right now I could take a little drive across town and get 60 valium. She would give them to me without batting an eye and has offered. She doesn't have a clue about addiction even though she drinks a twelve pack every night. Thats why she doesn't take her valium because she drinks so much. She keeps getting them filled though. Plus she takes a butt load of psyche meds including dexadrine. Not my place to call her an alcoholic and she doesn't think she is one but she has told me many times that she drinks a twelve pack a night. The point is she has had this standing offer to give me valium for about six months now and I have not taken her up on it. I don't really like valium though.

Maybe I will be on benzos for life. Maybe they won't up my dose. Maybe they will cut me off. Maybe I will go the illicit route if they cut me off. I don't know. I take it one day at a time. That's all I can handle most of the time and like I said if I have to live with the anxiety/paranoia I was having I think I would whack myself.

I don't agree with you on the heroin. It may be out of your system in three weeks and the major withdrawal maybe over, that is just the physical side of it. The overwhelming obsession to pick it up again lasts a long long time.
It is not such a free choice as you make it out to be. I have been around AA and NA for 18 years. By far the highest rate of relapse is with opiate addicts. It used to me heroine then it went to Oxycontin and the other prescription ones then it went back to heroine. They have made it much harder to get oxy here and put all kinds of controls on it and busted docs for prescribing it so people went back to heroin. It is highly available and dirt cheap and high quality. This happened after we invaded Afghanistan by the way. Free enterprise and all.

Opiate addicts come in and out of the doors of AA and NA over and over and over. Most of them are on sub or methadone and that is the only way they can get any kind of "clean time". Some of them do beat it and have lasting sobriety. I had a girl friend who is one.

You rarely ever hear of benzo addiction in AA and NA. I can't even remember ever hearing someone talk about it. A lot of people who get a lot of clean and sober time end up going to vicodin. That is by far the highest problem with your average clean and sober person. Never benzos. We don't like the high from benzos. Its always a little marijuana maintenance program or a vicodin maintenance program. To be honest I have had minor slips with both. The pot I was sincerely trying it to help my depression and it didn't work so I stopped. The vics I would claim back pain. Which I really have had some back pain. I have an injury that flares up sometimes. It was for legitimate pain but when the pain went away I still tooks the vics until they were gone. I didn't get them legally either so in AA terms that is a slip. It can lead to full blown relapse but didn't for me. I had kidney stones one time and they prescribed them to me. I had to take it for those. And then I stopped. So I have had some withdrawal from vics, not horrible but not fun. Not bad enough to make me go back.

So whether I can claim 18 years clean and sober or not is a matter of opinion. Some in AA would say absolutely not that I had relapsed. Some would say just a minor slip no big deal and yes you can claim your 18 years. Some smoke medical marijuana and go to AA every day and still claim there clean time. Some tell them they are full of **** and can't claim any clean time if they are smoking. Then there are some real idiots who say you are not clean if you take anti depressant.

It doesn't really matter to me. What is important is that I am totally honest with myself and others. People can call it whatever they want. All that matters is today anyway. I have to do it one day at a time.

I have written a book in these damn forums the last three days. I am kind of manic as the new meds are kicking in and I am coming out of a long depression. Always happens to me for awhile. I can't shut my mind off right now. It will balance out though.

A few days rest and I am back to normal from anything.

What about the case where someone does an at the same time switch from one SSRI to another SSRI but has horrible withdrawal effect for along time and has to taper very slowly off of the old one?

That doesn't make any sense if switching from the same to same eliminates withdrawal effects. Maybe it never happens but I swear I remember reading a lot of posts where people say it has happened to them.

And there still isn't anyone responding to this thread about bad withdrawal even though the title of the thread is...

But did you switch from one to the other at the same time or go cold turkey off of them?

I've switched through all of the SSRI's at one time or another and so long as I switched to a new one, I didn't feel withdrawals. Even when I went off Paxil completely when I got pregnant, I don't remember anything horrible. Although that could just be memory as it was 13 years ago, and perhaps the fact that I was pregnant and felt lousy anyway. But since they all affect serotonin it makes sense that switching from one to another immediately would negate the risk of SE's. It is odd they would force people off them altogether in the UK, unless they are trying to avoid possible serotonin syndrome or something?

With regard to Klonopin addiction, I know quite a few who have taken it low dose for years and years. They may be dependent, but they are not upping their dose to recreate a "high", so they wouldn't qualify as addicted, right? I agree with sewarrats that it could be the mere idea of taking the benzo that works for some people. My dad took .5mg for more than 30 years and I cuoldn't believe he was actually receiving benefit from it. But he insisted, so who was I to argue?

Stevie Nicks was very famously addicted to Klonopin for years and had to go into rehab for it after about 10 years she said. But I think it's really important to know that it was given to her during her first stint in rehab for cocaine to help with those withdrawals. So I don't think its surprising that she got addicted. I wonder if they would still actually do this in rehab nowadays?

Wait a minute this was not part of my quote.....

So this was cold turkey and Paxil is supposed to be one with the worst withdrawal.

I wouldn't say they were addicted. Of course it depends on if they have an additive personality or not or how you want to define addiction. I would be so happy if my current dose stayed the same and the anxiety never returned. I wouldn't give a rats *** if it was placebo or not.

I used to be so in love with Stevie Nicks. She was on the country music awards last night and looked good. I don't know if she is still clean or not but it looked like it. Whoever made the decision to give her Klonopin for cocaine withdrawals and then keep her on it was just stupid. I don't think that is ever done in treatment centers. Anti psychotics for cocaine and meth withdrawal yes. That was a long time ago and they know a lot more now. It has always been very common to give valium for severe alcohol withdrawal. I mean if it is severe though like DT's. As soon as you are out of the detox ward and into treatment no more valium. I think that is still common. When I was in the mental hospital for the meth withdrawal they did give ativan. They kept a tight grip on it though. I think they gave it out so that we wouldn't tear the place apart or hurt one of them.

i used to go to meetings at a Native American treatment center. There they used mescaline and the sweat lodge under the supervision of a medicine woman to detox people from meth. meth has become like epidemic on Indian Reservations. I wish I could have detoxed that way.

I am 1/4 finnish where sauna's are a big part of the culture so I have taken many many very hot sauna's. There is nothing more rejuvenating and relaxing then a jump in the lake after a good sauna. Maybe i will do that to detox off of the benzo's.

I think docs should let us decide Benzo treatment, I mean ADS has I said make you fat, ruin your sex life , constipation, all kinds of crap , nothing on Benzo,s only you may need more has you go along , but then again you may swap your AD 10 times in between that period. Look at me 6 years on 4 mg Ativan and 10 mg Lexapro. I have chronic anxiety that leads to depression, so stop the anxiety I wont get depressed maybe , its not rocket science. WTF carnt they raise the lorazapam to 6mg and put down the Lexapro to tick over at 5 mg , I may last another 6 years at that, But for some reason billy BENZO strikes fear in every doctor you see

I have no idea how that happened, sorry about that. I must have pushed a wrong button or something? Weird.

[quote=zinco14532323;3682013]So this was cold turkey and Paxil is supposed to be one with the worst withdrawal.

Yes but then again, 13 years ago not nearly as much was written about withdrawals from SSRIs. I also had to quit smoking cold turkey and was very nauseus for 3 months as well, so I was miserable all around. I was a light smoker so what I thought were nicotene withdrawals might have been Paxi now that I think of it.

I had pretty bad flu like symptoms for two weeks when I switched from it to another SSRI. I am sure I quit the Paxil in like three days. Like you said they didn't know much about SSRI withdrawal then.

stevie nicks , on klonopin how would they no 30 years ago what that would do, benzos were in full flow nobody new **** obout addiction

They knew a little but not much.

The days of mothers little helper.

We had a good supply of that little yellow pill when I was a teenager from various medicine cabinets.

I'm surprised there aren't more benzo addicts in na. I have known people to push their willing docs for rx. I have also had professionals tell me they will prescribe knowing they shouldn't be on it but are addicted. (Addicted not dependent ). Could it be because they move on to illicit drugs?

There is a lot about ssri withdrawal, laulisa. The problem is it is from patients or ex patients. There is still a common believe that it only takes two week and not much is known about delayed reaction (later rebounds). However there are a few forums devoted to AD withdrawal. Also, I think more people drop out of the system because of ADs. That is just a hunch but people who drop out aren't counted generally. That's why this survey is so important.

The only reason you should have ssri withdrawal when switching to another ssri is side effects. This is my educated guess because if how they work. Not sure you should get many withdrawal symptoms going to snri but idk for sure.

The philosophy in this country is (usually) one change at a time and to add a med before subtracting one. Problem is a lot of docs never seem to get around to dropping anything. I'm on the fence about dropping before adding. I guess it depends on factors I wouldn't know. I'm definitely not in favor of adding a third med without ending one. I'd think two would be stronger than three if that makes sense. So remove one and add or one at a time otherwise how do you know what's working? My opinion.

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Isn't that really interesting. The exact same thing happened to me when I decided to reach out for help and make a phone call to a treatment center. It actually happened the moment I made the decision to call. I describe it as a total psychic and spiritual shift. It was at that point that my desire to drink and use "was removed", or went away. Ever since that moment it has not been hard to stay clean and sober. I have had my moments and some slips but really it was pretty easy. I followed through with all I was supposed to do in AA and so on. That obsession can return and relapse happens. You will here many similar stories in AA. Sometimes it happens quickly sometimes slowly but it will always happen if we work for it. So the saying goes.

My Dad was a two pack a day unfiltered Pall Mall smoker from the time he was a teenager until he had open heart surgery. After surgery the doctor told him now if you start smoking and mess up my work I will never touch you again. My Dad says something clicked in his head at that moment and he quit cold turkey and hasn't touched one since. He says it wasn't hard at all.

So what is this click that happens? Many would say it is a miracle. That God directly intervened. I don't believe that. It may be a "miracle" depending on how you define it. I will only say that there is a whole lot more to this universe then we perceive. We sometimes get glimpses.

that is why England don't use many combos , how do you no what working and what isn't . if one poops which is it

In your dads case pretty simple, LIFE OR DEATH , in my case drinking spirits after operation , again LIFE OR DEATH .
Not sure about you and your addictions, unless someone close died and gave you a scare, there is always an answer and its not god

My opinion is that it is because we addicts don't like the high that much. Sure we will use them if available or to go through withdrawal or something. But it is not the first drug of choice. It is probably the last drug of choice so no one talks about it.

I don't think it is SSRI side effects. Some people seem to experience real withdrawal effects even when switching from what I have read in here. I certainly don't know enough though.