[Meta]

Right now my meds seem to be failing me to some degree. I have tried to analyze it and have considered that perhaps I really expect meds to put me in a sort of Stepford wife zone. Do I just want to be mellow and happy all the time?

I really don't think that is it, that I expect nirvana from the drugs, but I am not sure. Most defintely much of the time I have a tendency to want to be all things to all people, and I wonder if I think the meds are failing when I find myself unable to be Superwoman.

I wonder if for me. stress precipitates changes in how the meds work for me, or do I eventually just develop a tolerance to whatever meds I am on and need to increase the dosages.

I believe at this time the pharmaceutical industry is still quite emphatic that these meds--psychotropics and antidepressants are nonaddictive(I do not include the ADD stimulant drugs or the benzodiazepines when I question whether antidepressants and other psychotropics are addictive. Stimulants and benzodiazepines are addicting to some degree.)

Anyway does anyone else feel that perhaps antidepressants and other psychotropics are addicting? This was a big part of the thesis of Peter Breggin's book "Toxic Psychiatry" where he found people went off their antidepressants and then went right back on because they felt they had relapsed. His counterargument was that people were actually undergoing withdrawal from the antidepressants and mistook these withdrawal symptom for the return of their depression.

I would appreciate any comments or opinions

Meta

[DePressMe]

Interesting…I don’t think I have withdrawal when I stop taking my meds. After a couple weeks or so my depression and anxiety come back—if it was withdrawal I would expect it to happen as soon as I stopped my meds—within a day or so? Interesting thought though…

[sunrise]

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Meta said:
Anyway does anyone else feel that perhaps antidepressants and other psychotropics are addicting? This was a big part of the thesis of Peter Breggin's book "Toxic Psychiatry" where he found people went off their antidepressants and then went right back on because they felt they had relapsed. His counterargument was that people were actually undergoing withdrawal from the antidepressants and mistook these withdrawal symptom for the return of their depression.

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Meta, I think that people's symptoms of depression and anxiety return after they stop the drugs before they never really "cured" these problems. The drugs were helping with the symptoms of depression and masking the underlying condition. When the drugs are stopped, the conditions are unmasked again. I think this is why, especially for depression, psychotherapy can be helpful in addition to meds. In some cases, psychotherapy can help solve the root cause of the depression so that when you go off the meds your depression does not return. I was depressed for years and psychotherapy helped me beat it (I did not do ADs).

I also think there is such a thing as "making peace" with one's brain biochemistry. I recently began taking Buspar, a psychotropic, for anxiety. (It is not addicting.) It makes me feel a helluva lot better, it's very stimulating to me, and makes me feel more "up." When I am through this extremely high stress time in my life, I will stop taking it. I am sure I will in some sense miss the energy and feeling of elation it gives me, but those feelings are not really me. I am naturally a lower energy person with fairly even mood, tending toward depression if anything, and am not prone to mania, like this drug can produce in me. I will miss the drug, but it is just not me, and I am, in general, content to be me. I am at peace with my biochemistry. (I realize others may have more serious problems than I do and it is not that simple for them.)

Anyway, just some thoughts....

[Hopefull]

Addiction is different than just withdrawal symptoms. Yes, anti-depressants have withdrawal symptoms. This is why it is recommended that one gradually reduce one's dosage rather than quiting cold turkey. Has people went off and mistook the withdrawal symptoms as the original problem? Probably. I can't remember the name of the book but there is a book on anti-depressant withdrawal. Paxil CR is one of the worst. Prozax is one of the least that causes withdrawal symptoms due to the fact that Prozac stays in the blood for a long time. I went off Lexapro for two days and was dizzy which was one of the withdrawal symptoms. If you were suffering from withdrawal symptoms, the "depression symptoms" would go away immediately after re-starting the drug. I suspect if it is depression or anxiety the symptoms would come on later and take longer to get rid of the symptoms when you re-start the drug. I do not know how much time from discontinued use the withdrawal symptoms would start because that depends on how long it takes for the drug to leave your system. I looked up Lexapro in the book and it said three to six days is when withdrawal symptoms most oftenly take place. I'd suggest that you ask your doctor and try to find a good book on the subject. I think the book was by the auther of Prozac Backlash and was much newer book. I would compare the information with your doctor to see if that is his experience too. I am not sure if this auther is honest or a scare monger. My former drug has withdrawal symptoms of flu-like symptoms and dizzyness according to my Pdoc. Most SSRI's probably have similar withdrawal symptoms.
Since I am not on an anti-psychotic, I have not looked into any of that. I hate that my brain is dependent somewhat on an anti-depressant.

Addiction crieteria: three or more of the following
tolerance: you need more and more of the drug to get the same effect
Withdrawal: (I have this.)
Substance is taken in larger amounts or for a longer period of time than planned for (loss of control drug use)
Attempt to quit repeatedly or persistent desire to do so
pre-occupation with getting the drug, using the drug or recovery from period of use
reduction in activities or giving up of activities due to drug use
continued use despite medical problems or psychological problems caused by or exacberated by the drug use (knowingly)
This is my own paraphrase so don't take it as gospel or anything. I can see an anti-depressant being true for tolerance and withdrawal but I don't see much for the others but the book that I mentioned made a case using a person who tried to go off Paxil CR cold turkey and ended up begging for the drug because of the withdrawal symptoms.

I am not a doctor, counselor or professional in this area. I'm am just a mental health user who likes to research my drugs.

[drummergrl]

Back in the mid 70's, I was on every type of anti psychotic med. you could think of. I wasn't hooked on them. I don't see how you could be, but they can present a multitude of very unpleasant side effects that can be fatal. True, if you go cold turkey you can throw yourself into withdrawal symptoms, but otherwise you get through it. I did that when I got tired of living off those same side effects. I went cold turkey. The drs. didn't like it, but I was fed up with having cement in my brain, 40 lbs. heavier, and not giving a damn what was going on around me.
I wasn't any better for it. The depression was still there.
Now it's 30 some odd years later and I finally found relief in the newbies of today. Plus, the right diagnosis......gee, only took them 30 years to find it,too!!!!

Drugs that have the potential for abuse and dependence are called controlled substances. The classes of controlled substances are:
Schedule 1: high abuse and dependence potential, typically only used for research purposes and unable to be prescribed legally
Schedule 2: highest potential for abuse and dependence that have medicinal purposes (Example: Adderall)
Schedule 3: less potential for abuse and dependence than those in schedule 2, clear medicinal use (Example: Codeine, Vicodin)
Schedule 4: less potential for abuse and dependence than those in schedule 3 (Example: Valium, Ativan, Klonopin)
Schedule 5: lowest potential for abuse and dependence (Example: Lomotil)

I'm not sure exactly what meds are you asking about. SSRIs (Prozac, Lexapro, Celexa) and SNRIs (Effexor, Cymbalta) and not controlled substances and therefore do not have the potential for abuse or dependence. However, these meds should not be discontinued without medical direction because they are likely to cause withdrawal effects.

Anti-psychotic meds such as Zyprexa and Seroquel are not controlled substances either

[Meta]

Hi Depress,

You may be right, but maybe just as antidepressants take a month to six weeks to get into your system, maybe they take that long to get out and cause withdrawal symptoms. I don't know I am just wondering about all this stuff.

Meta

[Meta]

Hi Sunrise,

Saying that antianxiety and antidepressants mask the underlying emotional issues is part of Peter Breggin's thesis also. Like you say, I think he then says too that those issues will come back if they are not dealt with.

I also have been depressed for years and also in therapy most of the time but have never been able to do therapy without medication also. I think I have been working on my emotional issues, so I don't know what to think when the antidepressants "quit" on me. If they are masking my anxiety and depression, what make them stop is my question.?
I don't think they are just masking. Although they could be. I don't know.

It has never worked for me to stop the meds completely because my moods went haywire. Although I suppose I could stop them and try to work on my issues without meds --I don't know.

I have a very mixed attitude towards medication. I don't want to need them. But I don't want to be how I was without them.

thanks for you thoughts.

Meta

[drummergrl]

Hey Siggy!
I was talking about Psychitopic Drugs like Ritilin, Thorazine, Prolixin, Elavil, Triavil, Amotriptaline, things of that nature. They are the hard core anti-psychotic drugs used for severe depression. That's my story.

[Meta]

Hi drummergirl,

Glad you found a mix that worked for you. My problem is finding a mix that continues to work for me.

Meta

[Meta]

Hi Hopeful,

I guess I would say I feel like I do have some of the criteria for addiction as far as my antidepressants go. When I have tried to stop them, I have gone through withdrawal. At some point I usually have to push up the dose as a tolerance develops to them and the current dosage doesn't seem to be doing it anymore. I do feel I am psychologically dependent on them.
I guess This is why I feel to some degree they are addictive.

Meta

[Meta]

Hi sigmund,

From your posting I guess I would say then my antidepressant is not addictive, because I don't see the abuse potential. However, I have to say I think our bodies do become physically dependent and emotionally I am certainly fearful about ever going off antidepressants completely again because of past relapses and I wonder if this constitutes psychological dependence. I guess it is a psychological dependence that has a physical underpinning--return of depression.
I guess a lot of my questioning really has to do with what someone above mentioned. Are antidepressants and other psychotropics masking my emotional issues or are they addressing a biochemical imbalance that is responsible for a large degree in causing the emotional issues I have.
I come from a large family. I would say most of my siblings tend to have as much or more anxiety and depression as I do. Two of them have had very severe manic episodes. None of them however thinks of themselves as a person with anxiety, depressive or bipolar disorders and they don't take any psychotropics or have taken them briefly and have soon stopped because they aren't "crazy.". They think I am a drug addict for taking the prescribed psychotropics. On the other hand, most of them drink heavily or smoke pot or seriously overeat and I think of them as self medicating their psychological disorders. So I guess I am wondering who is right here?

Meta

I don't think most are addicting. It isn't unusual for some AD's to stop working like they did at first, but I don't know why that is. I suspect that we continue to build the same neuropathyways that created the depression unless we do something more/different than medicate to relieve the symptoms.

I found AD's to be emotionally numbing and I was really disturbed that I couldn't cry. I still had times I felt very depressed while on Prozac and I felt at one point that if I could just have a *good* cry, I would feel better... get it out of my system. But I couldn't cry. For that reson I went off Prozac I'd taken for many years (10 years on AD's most of those years on Prozac).I wanted to feel. I wanted to see what I was like without the med. Who was I now? Had time and age/maturity made any difference? I did have physical withdrawal symptoms because I stopped them abuptly rather than having a doctor help me wean off, which is the way to do it.

After the withdrawal I began feeling emotions that I hadn't been feeling fully while on the medication. It was intense. Sometimes it still is. It took a lot to get used to and I have a ways to go yet. I did a lot of talking and I continue in therapy. Psychology is so interesting and I like digging deep and learning and I like the therapeutic relationship.

So that is my experience.

My opinion is that meds relieve the symptoms and then therapy uncovers the reason(s) the symptoms appeared..

[4myboys]

Hi all! I'm a newbie to all this stuff. Come to find out I've had lots of issues since I was a kid, I'm 49 now and just a few months ago, the world came crashing down on me! I was diagnosed with Dissociative Disorder, Severe Depression, PTSD and now Bi-Polar. I had been on Effexor for over a year, it helped I thought, but didn't see the big picture....as the stressors in my life increased it became too overwhelming for my brain, and I crashed and burned. I've been on increased dosages of Effexor and Lexapro, but I was just a zombie. I had no emotion! Depression??? I couldn't feel anything!!!!! I looked at the walls all day long. I wasn't and still not working at all. I thought i could get things done at home I hadn't been able to do before while working....but I had no ambition! I had nothing! When I told my psychiatrist this, he told me I didn't need to be on anti- depressants!!! He put me on Geodon....an antipsychotic I believe. That put a big smile on my face! What a difference!!! Sure, sometimes I didn't know what or why i was smiling about, but I finally had something I had been missing.......some emotion! I could smile and be happy! Depression, it kept it in check, but then i realized i was having a allergic reaction to it... a rash on my face. I was told to stop immediately, I did, wow!!! That ugly feeling came back, until I got my new med...Invega. This seems to be working, though I have had to have the dosage increased to 6mg due to increased stressors in my life. I could feel the depresion creep back in.....Believe me, i was able to tell when the lower dosage just wsn't handling it! I don't see a problem with feeling good by using a prescribed medication. It sure beats the alternative. Our brains can only handle so much stress before it causes something bad to happen! For me, it caused me to want to fight, not just verbally, but pysically!!! I wouldn't back down, a simple disagreement with my son caused him to lock himself in his room because he was actually afraid of me hurting him! He's 32 years old! Since taking this new medication, I can actually talk myself down out of that escalated feeling! I don't just "flip out"! I am grateful to my doctor for being so pro active in my treatment and getting me on the right stuff at the right time. I am also in therapy, I go weekly and then I see my psychiatrist, use to be bi-weekly, but now will be monthly. I can't imagine now being without my meds, i know what life would be like without them and I don't want that at all. It's a fact of life, my life!

[sunrise]

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ECHOES said:
My opinion is that meds relieve the symptoms and then therapy uncovers the reason(s) the symptoms appeared..

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Very well stated. I agree.

[Hopefull]

I definately was dependent on Lexapro. I suspect that I am not physically dependent on Citalopram. I was dizzy when I was off of Lexapro for two days. If I drove, I would have had to call someone to drive me home from the psychiatrists office and to the pharmacy to fill the next prescription. I don't want to try going without Citalopram to see what its withdrawal symptoms are.
For the person who mentioned getting the depression back after getting of the AD, Prozac has the longest half-life. I read that it's withdrawal symptoms tend to be around a week later. I have not looked up Citalopram's timing of withdrawal symptoms.
As for masking the depression/anxiety, I doubt it. I still cry a lot even on an anti-depressant. I was up to not crying for three to four days and one time I went for a WHOLE week but I still cried a lot. When my T went on medical leave, I went back towards crying with two days in between. I am not sure about other anti-depressants because a co-worker of mine said that she hasn't cried in a long time. I think her AD kills her emotions or something. I don't think mine kills my emotions (I have only been trying ADs for a little less than a year.) It definately makes it easier for me to be there and participate in therapy with T. Sometimes my negative thinking interfered with my ability to talk about anything else other than when I cried and why. I seemed to need my T to tell me better ways to look at it until my cognitive behavioral therapy monkey got back on-line. I had it trained into me by a previous T.

[darkeyes]

They are not known to be addictive, depending on their compounds. What you read is the typical "anti" medication type writings, such medications have helped thousands of people to a better life, even save lives of those who may have been suicidal.
Mood stabilization has also reduced the amount of hospitalizations in psych wards vs not being in treatment plan.
There will always be people that are negative towards meds and vice versa, a person has to do what's right for them.
Meds that are usually addictive and one needs to follow directions,not abuse them, are typically, CNS's like ritilin,amphetimines,phenterimine,dexedrine,crack,coke,etc.
then there are the benzos,tranquilizers, and narcotics.
When in doubt, it's always best to check with the prescribing doc and/or your pharmacist for info on your meds.
People shouldn't deny themselves of treatment due to reading all the anti medication hooplah, but it's their own personal decision, and/or how other's influence them.
I wish anyone on meds lots of luck and progress with treatment, rather it's with or without meds.
Take care now,
DE