[sunnydisposition]

She's a very good doctor. No doubt in my mind about that. But i have difficulty connecting with her. She's very bookish. Literal. Like say, Abilify was first launched as an weight neutral AP. But as it turns out, its NOT. We all know that. we have all experienced this kind of myths firsthand, and we know better. But she refuses to believe it can cause weight gain. So the blame comes down to me. Like she starts to believe that whatever weight issues i am having are a result of some psychological disorder. Even when i tell her that, look doc, when i stop taking this med, i stop binge eating, my diet goes back to normal. So obviously this med is causing the change in appetite. This actually happened today. You know what she said.., she said, okay..but why NOW? after 3 months? LIke her theoretical knowledge in this context is based on the fact that a med cant just suddenly start causing side effects, if it would have caused any side effect it would have started within first few weeks. She just keep posing more challenges, rather than accepting what i'm stating to her based on the real experience i go through. The debate goes on and on and she finally sorta writes me a new med, all the while saying stuff like, okay lets say, you are right, lets agree what you are saying is actually true... etc

One would say that atleast she wrote me a new med prescription, even if she didnt believe me. so what more do i need. But i gotta say, it hurts, really hurts. i mean she is the one person who is supposed to trust me. know what im going through. I dont know. it just really pisses me off.

Just wanted to vent. Actually have an appointment with a new doc, next time, so fingers crossed.

[bobcat21]

I totally get what you are saying I’m dealing with the exact same thing!! I’ve been on Paxil for since roughly Early November first we started out at a small dose and I kinda thought maybe it was working but then I gave it 6 weeks to fully kick in and it really wasn’t helping so she increased the dose again. I once again give it this 6 weeks to fully kick in and I say it isn’t working so she increased the dose again. I keep telling her over and over again it isn’t working ( now present time) but she keeps increasing the dose. I even suggested Prestiq at one point because I’ve had trouble with SSRis and she she brushed me off and the next session she told me you know you’ll get just as many side effects if you take Prestiq. I do think possibly deep down she’s a caring person but when it comes to my medication she refuses to budge. It is very frustrating

[*Laurie*]

Hi, What you have described does not sound like a good doctor to me. She sounds insensitive and robotic.

[sunnydisposition]

Originally Posted by *Laurie*

Hi, What you have described does not sound like a good doctor to me. She sounds insensitive and robotic.

for sure, she's terrible when it comes to understanding patients. when i said shes a good doctor, i meant she's well read, with good degrees from prestigious institutions and she's working in one of the best MH institute we have close to where i live. she's book smart. but MH is a persons story unfolding in real time, which, she completely invalidates. which makes her a terrible doctor. Its the reason im searching for a new doctor now.

[sunnydisposition]

Originally Posted by bobcat21

I totally get what you are saying I’m dealing with the exact same thing!! I’ve been on Paxil for since roughly Early November first we started out at a small dose and I kinda thought maybe it was working but then I gave it 6 weeks to fully kick in and it really wasn’t helping so she increased the dose again. I once again give it this 6 weeks to fully kick in and I say it isn’t working so she increased the dose again. I keep telling her over and over again it isn’t working ( now present time) but she keeps increasing the dose. I even suggested Prestiq at one point because I’ve had trouble with SSRis and she she brushed me off and the next session she told me you know you’ll get just as many side effects if you take Prestiq. I do think possibly deep down she’s a caring person but when it comes to my medication she refuses to budge. It is very frustrating

Exactly! Some of these doctors only see what they want to see. They are limited, closed minded, which makes them not a very efficient doctors. Like pristiq and paxil are two different classes of AD's. They differ considerable in the side effects profile they each have. For one thing, SNRI's do not effect appetite as profoundly as ssri's does. Sure that can change from person to person. but thats the general expectation. I speak from firsthand experience. As a matter of a fact i just started pristiq yesterday. So far so good. My appetite's come down. A lot. im not binge eating. or overeating. Hope it stays this way.

My humble advice is to find a doctor who actually listens and has an open mind. Someone reasonable. Finding and Having a good doctor, is half the struggle.

Your case is ridiculous. I support that doctors as incompetent of yours get reported to licensing authorities.

I imagine most psychiatrists know Abilify causes weight gain and antipsychotics in general can cause diabetes/metabolic changes. Mine would not even prescribe Abilify to help me sleep because of weight gain problems he's seen in patients. He insists on Ambien instead (not that Ambien is great).

I hear you, as I've had similar experiences. I have brought research to medical doctors and many are clueless about things that are easily substantiated. I've had some luck with a few doctors who appreciate my articles, and I am always grateful when that is the case.

There is so much knowledge out there, too much for any one doctor to keep up on, but it does take a motivation for a psychiatrist to learn it and apply it all. Even though they learn stuff in medical school, it may consist of memorizing information rather than learning wisdom or applying it.

Many health services are just primitive-listen to your symptoms and write one of several scripts, but never determine the cause or try to solve the problem. Being brushed off is common. It seems standard to not diagnose until permanent damage has set in. It's easier to diagnose when something has become completely nonfunctional, for example, your kidneys breaking down or an infection that has spread requiring amputation.

I think a good bit of this is medical training. They seem to be trained to look at patients as morons and patient data as insignificant. There are some good ones out there, but they are really, really hard to find.

Another component is egos. Many doctors are just incapable of 'seeing' you as an individual. It's related to narcissism (taking risk in using that label) where the person views you of an extension of them rather than separate. They are inwardly focused, so they can't 'see' you. The worst, for me, is the gaslighting--when they deny that things that exist and distort reality. This has happened to me several times. (It's also a trauma trigger for me so I am greatly affected.)

In my experience, most of the worst ones come from 'prestigous' institutions. Sometimes I think they think they are good merely for having a job there, and that just having an appointment with you is presumed a good enough outcome (as opposed to the actual outcome) and are really clueless about how much incompetence some of them have. I agree in finding and having a good doctor being the struggle, but I think it's more than half the struggle.

Well I'm just ranting here as this has caused problems for me, but also because I can't believe that hardly anything changes over the years.

I write posts about the medical industry in attempts to deal with it as I can't find much support for these issues anywhere from anyone.

https://forums.psychcentral.com/psyc...dangerous.html

https://forums.psychcentral.com/othe...l-records.html

[bobcat21]

I totally agree with the ego!! Once my T actually snopped on me ( I kid you not) I went to the doctor for a sinus infection and they went over my current medications etc and I just happened to not add the upped doseage on my Paxil and she was questioning me are you taking your medication at the right doseage? I was floored! I have had prior Ts and never once did they dip into my medical charts or question everything I do. I hate that I have to fear whatever I do I feel like I’m being watched I mean seriously I get you want to look good but at the same time it’s kinda creepy.

[possum220]

Book smarts does not equate to a good psychiatrist. All of them have book smarts otherwise they would not qualify to be a psychiatrist. If she can't listen to you about side effects from medications then what else can't she hear. Anybody can google side effects for abilify and see that weight gain is a possible side affect.

Being a good p'doc means that they can at least try to understand their clients.

I am pleased that you are trying to find another p'doc. Fingers crossed for you too.

[sunnydisposition]

Originally Posted by Rayne_

Your case is ridiculous. I support that doctors as incompetent of yours get reported to licensing authorities.

I imagine most psychiatrists know Abilify causes weight gain and antipsychotics in general can cause diabetes/metabolic changes. Mine would not even prescribe Abilify to help me sleep because of weight gain problems he's seen in patients. He insists on Ambien instead (not that Ambien is great).

I hear you, as I've had similar experiences. I have brought research to medical doctors and many are clueless about things that are easily substantiated. I've had some luck with a few doctors who appreciate my articles, and I am always grateful when that is the case.

There is so much knowledge out there, too much for any one doctor to keep up on, but it does take a motivation for a psychiatrist to learn it and apply it all. Even though they learn stuff in medical school, it may consist of memorizing information rather than learning wisdom or applying it.

Many health services are just primitive-listen to your symptoms and write one of several scripts, but never determine the cause or try to solve the problem. Being brushed off is common. It seems standard to not diagnose until permanent damage has set in. It's easier to diagnose when something has become completely nonfunctional, for example, your kidneys breaking down or an infection that has spread requiring amputation.

I think a good bit of this is medical training. They seem to be trained to look at patients as morons and patient data as insignificant. There are some good ones out there, but they are really, really hard to find.

Another component is egos. Many doctors are just incapable of 'seeing' you as an individual. It's related to narcissism (taking risk in using that label) where the person views you of an extension of them rather than separate. They are inwardly focused, so they can't 'see' you. The worst, for me, is the gaslighting--when they deny that things that exist and distort reality. This has happened to me several times. (It's also a trauma trigger for me so I am greatly affected.)

In my experience, most of the worst ones come from 'prestigous' institutions. Sometimes I think they think they are good merely for having a job there, and that just having an appointment with you is presumed a good enough outcome (as opposed to the actual outcome) and are really clueless about how much incompetence some of them have. I agree in finding and having a good doctor being the struggle, but I think it's more than half the struggle.

Well I'm just ranting here as this has caused problems for me, but also because I can't believe that hardly anything changes over the years.

I write posts about the medical industry in attempts to deal with it as I can't find much support for these issues anywhere from anyone.

https://forums.psychcentral.com/psyc...dangerous.html

https://forums.psychcentral.com/othe...l-records.html

oh yeah.. Anytime i try to contradict my docs notion, theory, whatever rigid set of preformed ideas they carry, by stating or quoting research, they immediately get this look in their eye like i've challenged god himself/herself. Lol.

It's so hard to believe that a psychiatrist wouldn't know this but I've come across other ridiculous situations with doctors so nothing is too outrageous it seems.

For some of the narcissistic ones, I wonder if they have to deny whatever it is the patient brought to them as in their mind, patients are not 'allowed' to know more than they do, thus devalued, seen as useless, stupid, ignorant, whatever it takes for them to maintain their self image of being bigger, smarter, more important.

It's like a mental block in their brain that a patient can question something related to their 'treatment'. Or because she didn't warn about weight gain, and instead you pointed it out, her mind blocked the fact it is true. Her defenses become the source of her need to gaslight you.

[bobcat21]

I truely believe mine is definitely has NPD again I can’t diagnose but she definitely does. I mean the spying the questioning every little thing I do and then getting mad and she definitely is grandiose always dressing in the best of the best never see her dressed down her perfectly straightened nails perfect and again once you question anything and I do mean anything very very defensive. I have seen my neurologist, primary doctor and whenever I mention well I saw this.. The doctors don’t get defensive they work with the patient and guess what switch the medication not get defensive like nope not doing that we just need to increase it despite everything you tell them.I want to switch my T but it is so hard to especially when it took forever to find her. I mean technically I could find someone in her same practice but that would just be plain awkward so that is where the problem lies.

[still_crazy]

rapport is important. a -lot- of shrinks are domineering and self-important. if your doctor is basically using drugs to shut you up when you ask too many questions, id personally see about going elsewhere. they're especially bad about doing that to women and minorities, although...there's plenty of male psychiatric casualties around, too, now that i think about it.

One thing we do is report these doctors to both the licensing authority and their board for suspected mental instability, being unfit to practice.

For example, a psychiatrist denying the existence of a known side effect of Abilify might be having delusions or a psychotic break, or if they think a patient isn't capable of understanding a side effect (to protect their ego in the case of NPD), they may be having delusions of grandeur.

Seems over the top at first glance, but doctors of this sort are really harming patients* and the industry isn't doing anything about it, so why sit back and accept this or lower the bar if we can do something that promotes positive change?

Just thoughts.

*see this post for an example of doctors' delusions harming patients. In this case, doctors denied the reality that this girl was having cancer relapse, and she was paralyzed for the rest of her life. I'm thinking if the doctor was reported, maybe it could have prevented this tragic outcome.

https://forums.psychcentral.com/6038160-post198.html

[sunnydisposition]

Originally Posted by Rayne_

One thing we do is report these doctors to both the licensing authority and their board for suspected mental instability, being unfit to practice.

For example, a psychiatrist denying the existence of a known side effect of Abilify might be having delusions or a psychotic break, or if they think a patient isn't capable of understanding a side effect (to protect their ego in the case of NPD), they may be having delusions of grandeur.

Seems over the top at first glance, but doctors of this sort are really harming patients* and the industry isn't doing anything about it, so why sit back and accept this or lower the bar if we can do something that promotes positive change?

Just thoughts.

*see this post for an example of doctors' delusions harming patients. In this case, doctors denied the reality that this girl was having cancer relapse, and she was paralyzed for the rest of her life. I'm thinking if the doctor was reported, maybe it could have prevented this tragic outcome.

https://forums.psychcentral.com/6038160-post198.html

I live in India, and out here the mental illness is rare, although its on the rise now, but for few of us suffering from MH issues what it means is, an acute shortage of psychiatrists in the country. Doctors dont want to major in this field coz of how limited it is. Bad news for us. Most of the doctors i've encountered in the last 3 years are either so old school, that they prescribe TCA's as a first line of treatment, have ridiculous notions about certain meds, like one of my doctor actually refused to believe that seroquel can cause weight gain, said its "weight neutral". Can you believe that? or either i've came across fresh out of the med schools doctors who have no practical idea of what it is to live with mental illness, and they try experimenting their theories like one of my doctor misdiagnosed me as Bipolar type 2, just coz he had a hunch, i spent so much effort trying to convince him that after reading the symptoms of bpd, it just does not makes sense that you've diagnosed me with it. the symptoms doesnt fit the criteria. but it was futile. he used some fancy medical words and then i started to doubt myself and believe in him. offcourse after i changed that doctor, my diagnosis was reversed back to depression and anxiety.

The mental health professionals out here are few and to find just even a sane competent doctor, who understands basic logic and reasoning takes hell of an effort. But i do my homework on meds and my illness very thoroughly now, so that none of these doctors can sell me any bull. PC actually have been a life saving tool, more than a tool, an institution of factual information and support, that has helped me every step of the way.

I see--having a sane competent doctor is a challenge! And prescribing outdated drugs, that sounds like things are worse off there than here. But not too far off as misdiagnoses and misinformation is a regular occurrence here, too. And if you think about it, there is no reliability to these often subjective diagnoses. We have shortages too, and an some areas, more and more don't take insurance.

Thanks for sharing this with me sunnyd. It's very interesting to learn about other cultures. I didn't realize mental health disorders are rare in your area. I wonder if it is defined differently in your culture or if life styles influence the rates?

I learned the hard way too, and do my homework now too. Try to avoid drugs as much as possible is the best way to go but not always possible.

[sunnydisposition]

My guess would be that the difference in rates might have something to do with West being a society of Individualism and East being of Collectivism. I venture loneliness is liable to be more profound in the West as a result. For example, we have big families living together. 3 generations all living under the same roof. doesn't matter how rich or poor anyone is, the families stays together and sticks together. I've lived in Canada for 3 years during my post grad schooling, and i saw how different West is from East in this aspect. I blame loneliness as a root cause for majority of the vast MI everywhere in the world. It's the core root of depression, when it really comes down to it, which in-turn is the mother of a host of other mental disorders like anxiety, ocd, and whatnot.

Just my thoughts.