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  #1  
Old Nov 27, 2009, 08:30 AM
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darkrunner darkrunner is offline
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I'm not sure if I'm allowed to post this here, but it has to do with my T *and* my eating disorder. Trigger icon just in case....

i am really struggling. At my last session, T and I were talking about my weight and my ED. I have been losing weight again, and she got out her little calculator to figure my % of IBW. I asked her if she was going to recommend inpatient. She said there was a certain point (weight) at which she could no longer see me because it would be 'unethical'. (She wouldn't give me the specific number, but I had a feeling I am close to it.) She said it would be like a doctor treating a cancer patient for
'warts' instead of the cancer.
She kept asking me, "what is your goal?"
I am SO TORN between wanting to use ED behaviors, and not wanting to get to the point of hospitalization.
So for the first few days after my appt I did really well. But now I am reverting back to using my ED.
How is it possible to want 2 things so much at the same time, that I can't ever have together? I am really confused, scared and sad.
I don't know what I want.
The eating disorder feels relentless and has so much power, and it is squelching the healthy side of me. Can't figure out how to fight back.

And I want T!
I think she brings out the healthy side of me.
But it is only once a week for an hour.
Ugh....

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  #2  
Old Nov 27, 2009, 09:09 AM
Melbadaze Melbadaze is offline
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Feels to me as if your T is making this ED a big powerful incurable obstacle that neither she nor you nor the rest of the world can be with. Can you imagine this as a movie and you are able to stand up and walk out of the movie house? Theres plenty of talk of what can't be done whilst what can be done is left sitting abandoned. just my thoughts.
Thanks for this!
darkrunner, mlpHolmes, pachyderm, Sannah, zooropa
  #3  
Old Nov 27, 2009, 09:15 AM
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3velniai 3velniai is offline
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I can relate to wanting 2 completely oposite things at the same time and it really is no fun. You said you did well the first few days after T appt, and this wonderful, maybe if you could contact T it would help? Can you call her or write an email?
Thanks for this!
darkrunner, mlpHolmes
  #4  
Old Nov 27, 2009, 10:34 AM
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pachyderm pachyderm is offline
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I agree with Melba that, at least as I hear it, she, like so much of the world, seems to see your ED as a huge problem that no one can deal with; at least, she cannot deal with it. Maybe I am hearing it incorrectly, and she is only saying that she must do something more, such as referring you elsewhere, if the ED gets more seriously physically threatening to your health.
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Thanks for this!
darkrunner, mlpHolmes
  #5  
Old Nov 27, 2009, 10:52 AM
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BlueMoon6 BlueMoon6 is offline
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KT- You know I can relate to all of this. Sigh.....

Does T want you to go to ED rehab or just in a hospital where they'll feed you with a tube? If you can somehow swing ED rehab, it is SO worth it. It is an amazing experience. As far as feeding with a tube, what can they do that you wont "undo" when you get out? I never understood how that can be helpful.

As far as weight goes. I so know the struggle. The only choice I have had is to keep my weight at a number that I feel safe with and I dont look too terrbily underweight and to force myself to feel comfortable there. I tell myself I can go between this and this. And that eating-wise, there is no way on earth I can gain too terribly much weight eating salad, apples, nuts and a little cereal in the morning.

The fear is (maybe for you, too) that I dont want food in my stomach, the feeling of that scares me and makes me feel out of control, and also that if I do eat more, that I'll eat out of control and gain a whole bunch of weight. It is a very anorexic way of thinking. But when I look realistically at what I am eating, how could anyone gain weight on what I eat?

I was 110 (Im 5'6") so that is too low, and dt did talk hospital if I got any lower, now I allow my weight to flucuate around 115, 116, and, KT, I am used to it and I dont feel any different. Life has not changed. If I drop to 113 its OK, if I go to 117, its OK. It has to be OK. I can go on with my day and eat the way I usually would and try not to panic. Im not saying I dont have days where I feel out of control and want my wieght back down and dont want to eat, but I have to think health. A big part is to see myself and my body in a realistic way. I look real thin, I dont need size 0 hanging off of me. It isnt normal. I want to be healthy. So, now at least my 0 fit me (somewhat), but do I have to be a 0? I want a healthy life. I know you do, too. I know you want to look in the mirror and love the KT you see there. She is lovable, smart, caring and girl who deserves a peaceful life.

Im giving you big, huge hugs, KT. I could write here on and on about what goes on in my head to allow myself to eat. PM me, we can do this together
Thanks for this!
darkrunner, mlpHolmes, zooropa
  #6  
Old Nov 27, 2009, 11:56 AM
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Sannah Sannah is offline
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Melbadaze, your post was the best!

Moon, I like your strategy of choosing a slightly higher weight and then making yourself realize that nothing bad happened when you maintained that and you even left yourself room to go above that. This certainly buys you time to work on your issues.

I used a similar strategy when I needed things to be orderly in the house in order to not feel anxiety. I would tell myself to not clean or take care of something and then I would sit back and tell myself that the earth didn't crumble down because something was out of order and that it was okay. I gradually worked my way to healthy this way (this was one of the strategies that I used). I have used this gradual strategy for many things.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktgirl View Post
How is it possible to want 2 things so much at the same time, that I can't ever have together?
It is very possible. My fear of intimacy issue that I had had the same dynamic. It is what happens when you have dysfunction and this came from experiencing a dysfunctional environment or situation. You have to cope (before you fix it).
__________________
Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........

I'm an ISFJ
Thanks for this!
darkrunner
  #7  
Old Nov 27, 2009, 01:17 PM
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darkrunner darkrunner is offline
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(((((Melbadaze)))))) (((((3velniai))))) ((((((Pachyderm)))))))
((((((((BlueMoon)))))))) ((((((((((Sannah)))))))))))


All your responses are so validating and thought-provoking.
I really appreciate them.

Melbadaze said:
Quote:
Can you imagine this as a movie and you are able to stand up and walk out of the movie house? Theres plenty of talk of what can't be done whilst what can be done is left sitting abandoned. just my thoughts.
Do you mean the movie is my ED? Or therapy?
I think what you might be saying is what my T says a lot, "Progress, not perfection" in recovery. I need to focus on the little things that I can do to get better, instead of focusing on the whole thing as a huge obstacle. One step at a time....one minute at a time....just doing the best I can do.

3Velniai said:
Quote:
I can relate to wanting 2 completely oposite things at the same time and it really is no fun. You said you did well the first few days after T appt, and this wonderful, maybe if you could contact T it would help? Can you call her or write an email?
Thank you for understanding. It feels good to have someone understand.
My T doesn't have email! I really hate that.
I have thought about calling, but we've never talked about her policy about messages. So I wouldn't know what to expect, or what she would think. I guess I never thought I would need to talk to her in between sessions. But I've been thinking about it more and more lately. And now I feel very embarassed to bring it up to her. I guess that's a whole other issue.

Pachyderm said:
Quote:
I agree with Melba that, at least as I hear it, she, like so much of the world, seems to see your ED as a huge problem that no one can deal with; at least, she cannot deal with it. Maybe I am hearing it incorrectly, and she is only saying that she must do something more, such as referring you elsewhere, if the ED gets more seriously physically threatening to your health.
Sometimes I feel like she cannot deal with the eating disorder. And I feel very much on my own, with her sitting in front of me with her hands in the air ......telling me what I need to do and watching my inability to do it. But I also think that at this point she is saying that she cannot continue to do therapy with me when my physical condition is compromised.....and that would be like re-arranging the deck chairs on a sinking ship - (my analogy, not hers....she used the cancer patient analogy).

Blue Moon said:
Quote:
Does T want you to go to ED rehab or just in a hospital where they'll feed you with a tube?
No, not a medical hospital. More like an ED rehab where they focus on re-feeding and also individual and group therapy. I've been in 2 different treatment centers like that. Maybe the 3rd time will be the charm....

Blue, you are very brave to post your numbers. When I got out of my last treatment center (in July) - I was doing fine maintaining. I think your strategy is good but I'm afraid I am already past that point of being at a good 'maintenance' weight. There is no way I can gain any back on my own. I have the same fears you do...
Quote:
that I dont want food in my stomach, the feeling of that scares me and makes me feel out of control, and also that if I do eat more, that I'll eat out of control and gain a whole bunch of weight. It is a very anorexic way of thinking. But when I look realistically at what I am eating,
......This is exactly how I feel too.

Sannah said:
Quote:
It is very possible. My fear of intimacy issue that I had had the same dynamic. It is what happens when you have dysfunction and this came from experiencing a dysfunctional environment or situation. You have to cope (before you fix it).
Thanks for this Sannah.
It makes me feel a little more normal? Or something like that.
It feels good to not be the only one.

I think it is my fault that I never am able to cope with the dysfunctional situation because I keep putting my physcial well-being at risk by using the eating disorder. I don't think that is intentional.....or maybe it is.
Maybe it is not by coincidence that this is all happening at the point I'm becoming more trusting and needy of T. So I'll end up in the hospital again without having to deal with any of the core issues, and then when I get out I'll have a new T and the cycle will repeat itself.
  #8  
Old Nov 27, 2009, 03:42 PM
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BlueMoon6 BlueMoon6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melbadaze View Post
Feels to me as if your T is making this ED a big powerful incurable obstacle that neither she nor you nor the rest of the world can be with. Can you imagine this as a movie and you are able to stand up and walk out of the movie house? Theres plenty of talk of what can't be done whilst what can be done is left sitting abandoned. just my thoughts.
How very true. It ALL can be worked on, at the same time. What choice to we have? Constant hospitalizations instead of therapy work as our weight goes down (or up and down). That is why I have not gone back into the hospital.
Thanks for this!
darkrunner
  #9  
Old Nov 29, 2009, 07:33 AM
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darkrunner darkrunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMoon6 View Post
How very true. It ALL can be worked on, at the same time. What choice to we have? Constant hospitalizations instead of therapy work as our weight goes down (or up and down). That is why I have not gone back into the hospital.
But if I can't maintain a healthy weight. what choice does T have? This is very confusing to me and I don't know what the answer is. I have seen a lot of Ts in the past year, and I don't think any of them would have continued to see me if my weight wasn't stable. I can't figure out what the right answer is....or the right balance.
Am I just not seeing the right T's?
  #10  
Old Nov 29, 2009, 10:17 AM
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Sannah Sannah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktgirl View Post
Melbadaze said:
Do you mean the movie is my ED? Or therapy?
I think what you might be saying is what my T says a lot, "Progress, not perfection" in recovery. I need to focus on the little things that I can do to get better, instead of focusing on the whole thing as a huge obstacle. One step at a time....one minute at a time....just doing the best I can do.
I took Melbadaze's post to mean that the T is building this ED up as something so big and she doesn't have any strategies to deal with it except this one (the strategy of just ranting about it).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktgirl View Post
Sometimes I feel like she cannot deal with the eating disorder. And I feel very much on my own, with her sitting in front of me with her hands in the air ......telling me what I need to do and watching my inability to do it.
So she is missing the understanding where you are at and how she can help you move forward. What good does it do to stand in front of someone and tell them they need to get over their problem but they don't know how to help you??????

Quote:
Originally Posted by ktgirl View Post
I think it is my fault that I never am able to cope with the dysfunctional situation because I keep putting my physcial well-being at risk by using the eating disorder. I don't think that is intentional.....or maybe it is.

Maybe it is not by coincidence that this is all happening at the point I'm becoming more trusting and needy of T. So I'll end up in the hospital again without having to deal with any of the core issues, and then when I get out I'll have a new T and the cycle will repeat itself.
I see you as being stuck in this cycle and you truly don't know what to do about it. I see you as trying to cope with your situation by using the ED because you don't know how else to cope or deal. I don't look at this as intentional because you are not trying to cause trouble, you are trying to survive the best way that you can.

So what is going on with you getting more trusting and needing of T???? Does she know how to help you and is she trying and you are holding her back?????
__________________
Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........

I'm an ISFJ
Thanks for this!
darkrunner
  #11  
Old Nov 29, 2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktgirl View Post
But if I can't maintain a healthy weight. what choice does T have? This is very confusing to me and I don't know what the answer is. I have seen a lot of Ts in the past year, and I don't think any of them would have continued to see me if my weight wasn't stable. I can't figure out what the right answer is....or the right balance.
Am I just not seeing the right T's?
(((((((((((kt)))))))))))))))))))

Sometimes I get into this almost panicky, spiraly place in my head, where I can NOT find the way out, and I can NOT figure out what I am supposed to do. It feels awful. What helps me when I am like that is just letting myself - or forcing myself to - SLOW DOWN. I remember once T left me a voice mail when I was in that panicky place and he kept saying "I want you to SLOW DOWN. I want you to SLOW DOWN." and he talked me through breathing and letting myself be still. And when I could finally let myself just slow down and "be"...instead of trying so hard to figure out what the heck I was supposed to do...things started making a little bit more sense.

Sometimes I will just lay on my bed on my stomach and pray. I don't worry who I am praying to...and sometimes its just "please help" over and over again. If I can let myself lay there long enough to get still inside, sometimes I start to know what I am supposed to do next. Just the next step. When I can't see the whole path, I just need enough light to know what the NEXT STEP looks like. Literally one step at a time.

Instead of trying to figure EVERYTHING out....can you figure out the next step??

Thanks for this!
darkrunner
  #12  
Old Nov 29, 2009, 02:02 PM
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mlpHolmes mlpHolmes is offline
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Dear KT,

Talk, talk, & more talk! with others in the same situation did sooo much to help me! I went to therapy & even intense outpatient. But talking to others w/an ED, who could relate did wonders for me. I can manage my ED now.

Much Love,
Holmes
Thanks for this!
darkrunner
  #13  
Old Nov 29, 2009, 04:45 PM
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darkrunner darkrunner is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannah View Post
So she is missing the understanding where you are at and how she can help you move forward. What good does it do to stand in front of someone and tell them they need to get over their problem but they don't know how to help you??????
I don't know! But how can anyone else truly help someone with this? - she can't be there with me 24/7 and make me eat.
She does help me explore what I am feeling, she helps me identify what I get from using ED behaviors, she tries to help me figure out what I want. She is CBT, so she nags me all the time about 'thought-journaling' - which I really haven't cooperated with. What else can she do?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannah View Post
I see you as being stuck in this cycle and you truly don't know what to do about it. I see you as trying to cope with your situation by using the ED because you don't know how else to cope or deal. I don't look at this as intentional because you are not trying to cause trouble, you are trying to survive the best way that you can.
Thanks for saying this, Sannah. I don't know why, but it makes me feel better. Maybe it is because it feels like someone understands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannah View Post
So what is going on with you getting more trusting and needing of T???? Does she know how to help you and is she trying and you are holding her back?????
I think maybe I AM holding her back. I think she just *might* know how to help me. If i was more compliant with her suggestions and worked harder at recovery.....as hard as I work at having my eating disorder....then maybe I would be making more progress.
I feel like I have been burned by 'helping' people so many times though. Maybe I am just afraid to listen to her. Something I may want to bring up in therapy I suppose. I really have to think about that some more.

Treehouse said:
Quote:
And when I could finally let myself just slow down and "be"...instead of trying so hard to figure out what the heck I was supposed to do...things started making a little bit more sense.
This makes sense. I do feel an enormous pressure to figure out how to fix this NOW, and I think it's because if I don't I will get to a place (physically) where I have lost so much ground I have to move back to the very beginning. It's like I HAVE to find a way to stop the self-sabatoge. I am so confused. But it is like you described, a kind of panic-y feeling of wanting to find a resolution.
Quote:
Instead of trying to figure EVERYTHING out....can you figure out the next step??
The next step.....the next step.......
I guess this would be a logical place to start.
But what is it?
I want to go from Step A to Step Z. That is what I want.
But what is in between? I don't have a clear way of getting there. And I feel so alone, like no one else knows the way either.
(((((((((((Treehouse))))))))))))

MLP Homes said:
Quote:
But talking to others w/an ED, who could relate did wonders for me. I can manage my ED now.

Thank you Holmes.
My pdoc did say that he felt it would be helpful for me to find an ED group therapy situation. He said he was going to call my T about it.
I think it would be helpful too. I don't know what is available in this area...but it is a good idea to check into it.
  #14  
Old Nov 29, 2009, 07:31 PM
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BlueMoon6 BlueMoon6 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sannah
I see you as being stuck in this cycle and you truly don't know what to do about it. I see you as trying to cope with your situation by using the ED because you don't know how else to cope or deal. I don't look at this as intentional because you are not trying to cause trouble, you are trying to survive the best way that you can.
I wanted to say something about this. When I am using my ED to help me cope, I am. It is the way I feel in control or it helps me in whatever way it does to help me cope. There are times when I dont seem to need it that much to cope, and food is better. Then I feel more comfortable eating and letting my weight go up a few pounds. It doesnt seem to be because I have dealt with the ED, but more because I dont need it at those moments, I can even use some other behavior. I dont know if this makes any sense, but what I do with food almost has a life of its own. When I need to control my food and eat less and see the scale go down, I feel control and safe, when I dont need that, life is calm enough, I am able to eat more (safe foods, in safe amounts). It seems not to have to do with recovery, but on the whim of my ED.
  #15  
Old Nov 30, 2009, 01:52 PM
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Sannah Sannah is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktgirl View Post
She does help me explore what I am feeling,

she helps me identify what I get from using ED behaviors,

she tries to help me figure out what I want.

She is CBT, so she nags me all the time about 'thought-journaling' - which I really haven't cooperated with. What else can she do?

I think maybe I AM holding her back. I think she just *might* know how to help me.

If i was more compliant with her suggestions ....then maybe I would be making more progress.

I feel like I have been burned by 'helping' people so many times though.

Maybe I am just afraid to listen to her.

Something I may want to bring up in therapy I suppose. I really have to think about that some more.

Very good probing here!!!! ^ Any more thoughts on this since you wrote it?

I want to go from Step A to Step Z. That is what I want.
But what is in between? I don't have a clear way of getting there. And I feel so alone, like no one else knows the way either.
The stuff between the A and the Z is the most important part! "A" is where you are at and "Z" is where you want to go. People heal by 1) realizing where they are at, 2) understanding themselves very, very well, why you do what you do and what you are trying to accomplish by doing this stuff, and 3) problem solving the issues that you have uncovered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueMoon6 View Post
When I need to control my food and eat less and see the scale go down, I feel control and safe,

when I dont need that, life is calm enough, I am able to eat more (safe foods, in safe amounts).

It seems not to have to do with recovery, but on the whim of my ED.
How about it having to do with you needing to cope less Moon? I am healed now, I don't need to cope anymore. A person needs to cope when they are in a dysfunctional pattern.
__________________
Don't let your problems or the world make you feel small. Stretch your arms out over your head. Take a deep breathe. Tell yourself that you are big. You are big, not small. You always have space, you are not trapped........

I'm an ISFJ
  #16  
Old Dec 01, 2009, 11:51 AM
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Kiya Kiya is offline
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I think it is all about choosing which is more important (i know that is NOT easy). Like quitting smoking, drinking, drugs, cutting - gotta want health and T and life more than the coping skill.
I know you have the power in you to do it. No one can do it but you - but we all support you!
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  #17  
Old Dec 01, 2009, 05:49 PM
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BlueMoon6 BlueMoon6 is offline
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Lots of hugs and love to you KT

How are you doing today? Havent heard from you?

I am here to support you, too. I am giving you a big hug I know it is moment by moment decsions all day long
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