[mixedup_emotions]

I KNEW that your thread was triggering something for me....but I had trouble pinpointing what it was....and then it just smacked me in the face!

Yesterday, I was in group. I was feeling pretty good (headache-wise) and contributed to the session in multiple ways. Afterwards, my T posts some feedback on a private blog...and he pointed out some significant points for everyone...and then when mine came up, he said that I became distant during the session...and assumed it was related to a headache that was brewing.

I immediately responded, pointing out that I didn't feel that I was being distant and listed what I felt my contributions were.

He posted back saying that perhaps distant wasn't the right word...then suggested the word "pensive"...and asked me to see if there was anything that I could sense that would've helped him to sense that I was distant.

I posted back my dislike of the term "pensive"...and said that I had no sense of what he was sensing (if that makes sense ) and that I wasn't able to be reflective at the moment...and that perhaps it doesn't even matter.

Then...

Your thread about validation and feeling unimportant smacked me like a ton of bricks!

YES!! YES!! YES!!

I posted tonight on the blog that I still had no sense of what he was sensing....but that I felt that in his blog note, my contributions were invalidated...I immediately became defensive....and then dismissed it, chalking it up to being unimportant.

There I was in group thinking that I was participating...and to have him raving about the significance of everyone elses contributions and minimize mine....well, let's just say I do not feel good about that at all.

Makes me wonder what the reality is.....Am I being overly sensitive? Am I reading it all wrong? Am I just jealous because others contributions were more impactful and I just don't measure up? Was I really being distant? Or, were my contributions really being minimized? Is perception reality, or is the perception distorted? Does my past (csa, physical abuse, etc.) come into play here? So many unanswered questions.

Anyway, Peaches, I just wanted to let you know that your thread had a real impact on me.

[peaches100]

Hi Mixedupemotions,

I'm glad that my thread helped you to become conscious of your feeling of invalidation. Once we know what triggers us, we can begin to look at why we feel invalidated. We can explore whether the invalidated feeling stems from our own personal feeling of being unimportant (hence, we will be on the lookout for anything that could remotely feel invalidating, and then react with defensiveness). . . or whether the invalidated feeling is the result of actual invalidation by someone else.

If the person really did intentionally invalidate us, then our feelings of hurt and anger are justified. We will need to work through those hurt feelings. We have a right to let that other person know why we are angry or hurt, and to find out why the invalidation took place. We also will need to decide how serious the invalidation was. Does the other person regret having hurt us? Can we overlook it, based on the otherwise good relationship we have with the person? Or do changes need to be made in the relationship so as to protect ourselves from possible future invalidation (emotional or physical distancing)?

On the other hand, if, upon close internal inspection, we find that the other person was not purposely trying to invalidate us, then we have a job to do. That job involves looking deeply into ourselves to find out why we are so sensitive to anything that appears to be invalidating? What causes the knee-jerk reaction of defensiveness? Have we felt invalidated or minimized by others in the past or now? Do we personally feel unimportant, so that we assume others also see us this way? If so, then we need to work on our own feelings of worthlessness and unimportance. If we can build up our own feeling of value, then we will not continue to see life through a lens of unimportance, where we react defensively to otherwise benign actions.

This is a major, Major, MAJOR problem for me, so i need to apply this advice myself whenever my unimportance trigger goes off. Unfortunately, when i'm triggered, i am not usually able to access my logical side at all or ask these questions. Usually, my emotions of hurt and anger take up the whole picture!

How are you feeling today? Does your t respond to your blog posts? Will he reply to what you said about feeling invalidated? Or would you need to wait until your next session to discuss it with him?

[BlueMoon6]

MUE- Feeling invalidated and minimized is HUGE for me, too. An issue for me can go on and on if that what is triggered. It is an old feeling that brings up the worthlessness I try to fight all the time.

I hope you dont take this wrong way I am meaning this in a supportive way..or way to understand better. Why does your group T evaluate the people in the group and their contributions after group? In the days before internet when we had group (sounds like the stories told by parents who walked miles to school in a snow storm to show their children they are spoiled by getting a ride) nothing was evaluated and we talked in the next group about what went on. It seems to me to be something that would set someone up to feel less valid or important then another member. If not you than another member would be jealous of someone else's better contribution, insight or value to the group or the T. No? I would be afraid to read these evaluations each week for that reason. Id end up feeling awful unless I was the star of each blog post!

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

he pointed out some significant points for everyone...and then when mine came up, he said that I became distant during the session...He posted back saying that perhaps distant wasn't the right word...then suggested the word "pensive"...There I was in group thinking that I was participating...and to have him raving about the significance of everyone elses contributions and minimize mine.....Am I being overly sensitive? Am I reading it all wrong? Am I just jealous because others contributions were more impactful and I just don't measure up? Was I really being distant? Or, were my contributions really being minimized?

Different people process in different ways. I go to a meeting, listen to everything, say nothing, then leave, and the next day or the day after I can come up with good ideas. But on the spot - no.

So what's wrong with being pensive? Which is just being thoughtful? Isn't that the point of therapy? you are, in the moment as they say, taking in and thinking about what's going on?!

>>> Is perception reality?
no dear, perception is perception.
And to speak to a group praising all BUT ONE is minimizing.
At least that's my $0.02. Which is probably why I would never be able to do group therapy.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by peaches100

If the person really did intentionally invalidate us, then our feelings of hurt and anger are justified.

Unless we can say, "oh, go (insert your own thought) yourself!"

[FooZe]

Originally Posted by mixedup_emotions

Afterwards, my T... said that I became distant during the session...and assumed it was related to a headache that was brewing....

He posted back saying that perhaps distant wasn't the right word...then suggested the word "pensive"...and asked me to see if there was anything that I could sense that would've helped him to sense that I was distant.

This sounds like exactly the kind of situation that R.D.Laing often wrote about:

------------------------------------
T shares that he perceived MUE as distant.

MUE denies that she felt distant.
------------------------------------

It's tempting to jump to some kind of conclusion here:

• "He's the T, so he must know; and MUE is the client, so she must be blind to whatever's going on with her."

or:

• "T was feeling distant himself and was projecting it onto MUE because that was the most convenient way to put it out of his awareness."

I don't think there's any quick and easy way to tell whether one of the above is any truer than the other. I prefer to "live in the question," notice what happens next time something like that comes up, and see if a pattern emerges. MUE, maybe you'll eventually notice that you do sometimes feel distant in that group -- or that others tend to perceive you as distant when you're actually some other way. Maybe, on the other hand, after a few gentle reminders T will start to notice that you're not the only client he projects stuff on -- or others will pipe up with, "I think you did that with me, too." Those are not mutually exclusive, by the way.

Good luck!

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Hi Mixedupemotions,

I'm glad that my thread helped you to become conscious of your feeling of invalidation. Once we know what triggers us, we can begin to look at why we feel invalidated. We can explore whether the invalidated feeling stems from our own personal feeling of being unimportant (hence, we will be on the lookout for anything that could remotely feel invalidating, and then react with defensiveness). . . or whether the invalidated feeling is the result of actual invalidation by someone else.

If the person really did intentionally invalidate us, then our feelings of hurt and anger are justified. We will need to work through those hurt feelings. We have a right to let that other person know why we are angry or hurt, and to find out why the invalidation took place. We also will need to decide how serious the invalidation was. Does the other person regret having hurt us? Can we overlook it, based on the otherwise good relationship we have with the person? Or do changes need to be made in the relationship so as to protect ourselves from possible future invalidation (emotional or physical distancing)?

On the other hand, if, upon close internal inspection, we find that the other person was not purposely trying to invalidate us, then we have a job to do. That job involves looking deeply into ourselves to find out why we are so sensitive to anything that appears to be invalidating? What causes the knee-jerk reaction of defensiveness? Have we felt invalidated or minimized by others in the past or now? Do we personally feel unimportant, so that we assume others also see us this way? If so, then we need to work on our own feelings of worthlessness and unimportance. If we can build up our own feeling of value, then we will not continue to see life through a lens of unimportance, where we react defensively to otherwise benign actions.

This is a major, Major, MAJOR problem for me, so i need to apply this advice myself whenever my unimportance trigger goes off. Unfortunately, when i'm triggered, i am not usually able to access my logical side at all or ask these questions. Usually, my emotions of hurt and anger take up the whole picture!

How are you feeling today? Does your t respond to your blog posts? Will he reply to what you said about feeling invalidated? Or would you need to wait until your next session to discuss it with him?

Thanks, Peaches....I had my individual session with T yesterday, and this was a big topic. He wondered what process I go through when I feel invalidated. I told him that initially, I get upset...then I get angry/defensive...then upset again, and ultimately shut down. It was an eye-opening session, because he pointed out a lot of things that are worth digesting. I will try to post more about it later tonight, after I get my daughter off to her dad's.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by BlueMoon6

MUE- Feeling invalidated and minimized is HUGE for me, too. An issue for me can go on and on if that what is triggered. It is an old feeling that brings up the worthlessness I try to fight all the time.

I hope you dont take this wrong way I am meaning this in a supportive way..or way to understand better. Why does your group T evaluate the people in the group and their contributions after group? In the days before internet when we had group (sounds like the stories told by parents who walked miles to school in a snow storm to show their children they are spoiled by getting a ride) nothing was evaluated and we talked in the next group about what went on. It seems to me to be something that would set someone up to feel less valid or important then another member. If not you than another member would be jealous of someone else's better contribution, insight or value to the group or the T. No? I would be afraid to read these evaluations each week for that reason. Id end up feeling awful unless I was the star of each blog post!

I find that the feedback that my T posts is usually quite valuable, and it allows us to have a professional perspective of how we interact with others. One of the things he pointed out was that if we feel that the feedback is off, how we react to it is just as important.

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Unless we can say, "oh, go (insert your own thought) yourself!"

[mixedup_emotions]

Originally Posted by Fool Zero

This sounds like exactly the kind of situation that R.D.Laing often wrote about:

------------------------------------
T shares that he perceived MUE as distant.

MUE denies that she felt distant.
------------------------------------

It's tempting to jump to some kind of conclusion here:

• "He's the T, so he must know; and MUE is the client, so she must be blind to whatever's going on with her."

or:

• "T was feeling distant himself and was projecting it onto MUE because that was the most convenient way to put it out of his awareness."

I don't think there's any quick and easy way to tell whether one of the above is any truer than the other. I prefer to "live in the question," notice what happens next time something like that comes up, and see if a pattern emerges. MUE, maybe you'll eventually notice that you do sometimes feel distant in that group -- or that others tend to perceive you as distant when you're actually some other way. Maybe, on the other hand, after a few gentle reminders T will start to notice that you're not the only client he projects stuff on -- or others will pipe up with, "I think you did that with me, too." Those are not mutually exclusive, by the way.

Good luck!

And then there's my way of thinking....

"Even though I didn't feel like I was being distant, T thought so - and even though I don't agree, if he thought so, it may mean that he wasn't paying attention to me and cared more about the involvement of others to notice".....