[purple_fins]

I am quite guarded so this is my first thread ..... trust is so difficult.....

Had T. session last night, I'm in the "tornado" of confusion and hypervigilence now.


--------- ***Not sure-- this may trigger some-- please take caution in reading****-----------


I'll quickly summarize a bit(sorry I'm repeating, those that know me)..... been diagnosed with Complex-PTSD, major depressive disorder moderate recurrent and various personality disorders(depending on which T. diagnosed). This due to several traumas that happened, one was a gun to my back as a child and a few other horrible traumas and also an abusive mother and an emotionally unpresent father. My mother was a jeckyl/hyde person. She loved you one minute, hated you the next. She was abusive and so narcissistic that her needs ALWAYS came first. (one example: one time I was bleeding from a bike crash- 8 years old, she was busy doing something-- I rang the doorbell, fearful to get any stains on the floor inside-- she came outside and yelled at me for staining the front stoop and then drug me off the stoop and threw the garden hose at me, telling me to clean up as I stood there bleeding)
The public only ever saw her "kind" side, her patient side.... blah..... I witnessed her horrifically abusing some kids she babysat(even the social worker that came didn't believe she was abusive, mother broke a toddler boys arm but no one on the outside could prove it or wanted to believe it... they never let me have a say). .... ugh..... and yet the public, for the most part, regarded her as the most awesome wonderful person they knew. argh!

---- so, I believe that this taught me to always be on the lookout for the "other side" of each and EVERY person..... "oh sure, they SEEM nice now but what are they REALLY like?".........

Well, yesterday, T. was talking to me and all of a sudden................... her voice changed, she talked with an accent, when she had never talked like that before. My insides jumped, the inner voice said-- "warning! warning! this could be the "other side" and it might be horrifically unsafe now". the rest of the session was kind of a blur after that.....

Oh, what am I going to do?!

I was starting to really feel hopeful, now..... I feel shakey and that some of the soft cotton that was building around me, allowing me to feel warm and at ease, is disappearing.

I haven't any friends-IRL- so I'm at a disadvantage in getting outside views-- was hoping you all could give me your two cents, if you don't mind.

fins ...ps.... might not always answer right away as I struggle with anxiety and after expressing myself, I get fearful.... *sigh*....
----- I know, *sigh*..... I've got to get over this!

[WePow]

((((fins))))) 1st - I am so so sorry that you had to experience your mother in that manner. That must have been a nightmare for you! And it is certainly understandable that you would now wonder about every person because "one just never knows" is playing for you over and over. Wow.

If I were in your shoes, I would try to muster up the nerve to ask T about the change in accent. That really is the only way you are going to get a logical and truthful answer. It takes a ton of hard work to be able to trust T after all you have been through - so don't beat up yourself over this at all.

Some people who have a natural accent take speach classes as a part of professional developement. If the person is not always on top of their game, they may slip back into the accent without even realizing it.

Bottom line is you owe it to yourself to bring it up right away the next session and find out her side of the story.

[jexa]

((((fins))))

I'm so sorry for everything you have endured.

It is pretty scary to get triggered in T, the one place you are supposed to feel safe. Dissociating in session is frightening too. Do you think your T noticed that you weren't there? Did she mention anything about the change in your behavior following her accent change?

I know that after I spend time with people who have accents sometimes I slip into an accent without realizing it. I spent a week with people from Tennessee one summer and for the next month I would randomly slip into a Southern drawl.

I agree with WePow -- if you can muster the nerve, talk with your T about this. It will help you build up some more "soft cotton" to tell her the truth and see that she reacts with understanding and empathy.

[SpottedOwl]

(((purple_fins)))

I believe this is coming up in your therapy so that you can heal it.
If you can share with T how you are feeling, or even write up how you got triggered and take it to your next session, that would help T understand.

Sometimes it is those little things in therapy -- something no one else would have noticed, but bothered me that brought me the most healing. Even if it sounds silly, bring it up with T.

In short, only by bringing things into the light can we truly see what they are.

And, I have to say you have amazing personal insight. Thanks for posting, and let us know how it goes.

[perpetuallysad]

fins, I think you are very brave for starting this post and talking about your abuse and feelings. First of all, I completely sympathize with you about the mother thing, in fact, if I didn't know better I would honestly think you were my sister because you described some things exactly the same as they happened with me. Even the daycare part. Yikes, that is really scary.

Anyway, my first idea was maybe she (your t) just didn't realize she was doing it, but not in a bad, like "other side" way, but just in a goofy way. Not that your therapy sessions should be trivialized by T acting goofy, but is it possible? I ask because my husband is someone who spends all of his time talking to a lot of different people and I have noticed that he will do this sort of accent mimicking thing when he talks to a certain person...say if he talks to a really country accent type of person (I live in Mississippi, so believe me, we have some country talkers around here, nothing wrong with that, but you get my point) he will slip into a more relaxed and looser grammar style. Same with if he is talking to a big wig of some sort, he will speak very eloquently. Anyway, when I was in college I took a class about the history of the English language and my prof said its natural for people to change their register to fit their environment as a way to make themselves comfortable and to make the other person comfortable...god that took me way to long to get out, but anyway, do you think this could be what she was doing? Maybe just unintentionally dropping or raising her register?

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by jexa

((((fins))))after I spend time with people who have accents sometimes I slip into an accent without realizing it. I spent a week with people from Tennessee one summer and for the next month I would randomly slip into a Southern drawl.

My Mom was very sensitive to this as well. In one phone conversation we kids heard her change from her own strong Midwest accent to the strong black Tennessean accent of the fellow on the other end of the line. When she hung up the phone and called out to us, she still had his accent - unforgettable!

I wonder whether T slipped into your accent, or some other? Either way, could be a gauge of how tremendously involved she was in your conversation. There was once a professor, at a prominent US college, who used to really get into his subject & would unconsciously abandon English entireily and start talking in his native German. Played **** with people who were trying to take notes.
Don't worry too much, can you? but talk to yr T - should prove an interesting discussion.

((((((purple_fins)))))))

About a year ago, I was in session with T and he asked me a question that was really unexpected and triggered me right back into a scary trauma flashback. In the midst of all of it, I looked at T and he looked DIFFERENT. I looked at his eyes and they were (are) the same color as one of my abusers, and I really REALLY felt and almost believed that he was my abuser in disguise, literally, that very person disguised as a T. And I was alone in a room with him. OMG. It was THE scariest moment, by far, that I've ever ever ever had in therapy. Like you, I pretty much dissociated and wasn't there for the rest of the session.

It was so, so scary to go back there and talk to him about it. The yuckiest part was that my safe person and my safe place had actually become traumatizing in themselves. I FORCED myself to go back and tell him what had happened.

He was so gentle and sensitive about it. I asked him to sit next to me on the other end of the couch so that I couldn't see him, because it was so scary to see his eyes. So, we were able to talk about it without me seeing him. It was hard, hard, hard, but I was honest about how I was feeling, how I had been triggered, and what I needed to feel safe again, and we found our way back to the safe place.

Like you, I expect people to have another side, and to eventually hurt me. Something that has been really hard for me to understand is that T is totally consistent. He's not going to love me one minute and hate me the next, or be nice one minute and mean the next. I bet your T is the exact same way. She did something and you felt scared, but feeling scared and not being safe aren't the same thing, you know?

I hope you can talk to T about what happened. As horrible as it feels to be triggered, the times that I *have* been triggered have probably been the most healing for me in the end.

Safe to you.

[peaches100]

Purplefins,

I am so glad you found the courage to post!

It must have been terribly painful and confusing for you as a child to witness your mother's hurtful actions, and at the same time, recognize that other people saw her as being wonderful. So many times, people put their best foot forward in public and only close family members see their weaknesses and errors. As a child, seeing such different sides to your mom, and not understanding when her behavior would suddenly change, was bound to cause you confusion and fear. I'm sorry you are having to deal with the after effects now.

I also have Complex PTSD, along with other diagnoses, and I totally understand why it's hard for you to trust or feel safe with somebody. Traumatic experiences create intense feelings of anxiety and fear. After that, it only takes a certain kind of trigger to bring all the old feelings of being afraid/unsafe back again. It sounds like you need for your t to be consistently predictable in order to feel safe with her, and this sudden change in her speech has triggered you.

Like the others, i suggest you talk to her about this. Ask about the accent and let her know why it has triggered your anxiety/fear. She most likely understands PTSD reactions very well, and will be able to help you deal with the trigger and feel safe with her once again.

[Sannah]

You got a lot of good responses here Fins. Just wanted to post to you and tell you that I am sorry that you had to experience that as a child ..............

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by purple_fins

My mother was a jeckyl/hyde person. She loved you one minute, hated you the next. She was abusive and so narcissistic that her needs ALWAYS came first. (one example: one time I was bleeding from a bike crash- 8 years old, she was busy doing something-- I rang the doorbell, fearful to get any stains on the floor inside-- she came outside and yelled at me for staining the front stoop and then drug me off the stoop and threw the garden hose at me, telling me to clean up as I stood there bleeding)
The public only ever saw her "kind" side, her patient side.... blah..... I witnessed her horrifically abusing some kids she babysat(even the social worker that came didn't believe she was abusive, mother broke a toddler boys arm but no one on the outside could prove it or wanted to believe it... they never let me have a say). .... ugh..... and yet the public, for the most part, regarded her as the most awesome wonderful person they knew. argh!

Have you ever read Understanding the Borderline Mother, by Christine Ann Lawson? She characterizes them in several ways, one of which is "The Witch". That fit my mother most closely, but I could see her in all the others too. I recommend the book, not only to understand such mothers but also to validate your own experience of them.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by WePow

((((fins))))) 1st - I am so so sorry that you had to experience your mother in that manner. That must have been a nightmare for you! And it is certainly understandable that you would now wonder about every person because "one just never knows" is playing for you over and over. Wow.

If I were in your shoes, I would try to muster up the nerve to ask T about the change in accent. That really is the only way you are going to get a logical and truthful answer. It takes a ton of hard work to be able to trust T after all you have been through - so don't beat up yourself over this at all.

Some people who have a natural accent take speach classes as a part of professional developement. If the person is not always on top of their game, they may slip back into the accent without even realizing it.

Bottom line is you owe it to yourself to bring it up right away the next session and find out her side of the story.

Thank you for being understanding. at times it was a nightmare, yes. and yes-- just how my mind thinks-- "one just never knows".

ah..... I must try and have the courage to ask T. about the sudden accent.... just.... ugh.... I really don't care to let anyone know I'm unnerved about something.

Really? some people take speech classes to speak differently-- I'd not thought of that! that's interesting and also enables my mind to have a bit of some reassurance. thank you

"bring it up right away"...... yea, if I don't then I never will...... blah.... this stuff is so hard sometimes..... and I "owe it to myself"??... T. said I tremendously lack in self care... this could be a step in that direction, I suppose.
thank you for your time and reply-- means a lot to me.

fins

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by jexa

((((fins))))

I'm so sorry for everything you have endured.

It is pretty scary to get triggered in T, the one place you are supposed to feel safe. Dissociating in session is frightening too. Do you think your T noticed that you weren't there? Did she mention anything about the change in your behavior following her accent change?

I know that after I spend time with people who have accents sometimes I slip into an accent without realizing it. I spent a week with people from Tennessee one summer and for the next month I would randomly slip into a Southern drawl.

I agree with WePow -- if you can muster the nerve, talk with your T about this. It will help you build up some more "soft cotton" to tell her the truth and see that she reacts with understanding and empathy.

thank you so much Jexa. Yea being triggered in a place where one is supposed to feel safe is the worst. (reminiscent of my childhood home--if no where else, that SHOULD be where a child can feel safe.... NOT!)
I don't get scared dissociating-- it's been my salvation.... but I do get embarrassed, as I feel people will think I'm dumb or that I don't care about them since I'm not listening. No, T. didn't mention anything..... she's very patient, I must admit. She knows I do this... she also knows I get embarrassed about it.
eek-- I hope you're right that if I say something next time she will react with understanding and empathy.... I hope.... I hope.

thank you for your time and your reply also. I so appreciate it.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by SpottedOwl

(((purple_fins)))

I believe this is coming up in your therapy so that you can heal it.
If you can share with T how you are feeling, or even write up how you got triggered and take it to your next session, that would help T understand.

Sometimes it is those little things in therapy -- something no one else would have noticed, but bothered me that brought me the most healing. Even if it sounds silly, bring it up with T.

In short, only by bringing things into the light can we truly see what they are.

And, I have to say you have amazing personal insight. Thanks for posting, and let us know how it goes.

You really think that this came up so I can heal from it?........hmmmm I like that way to think of it. I am so so not good at face-2-face talking, so I think your advice of writing it down would work very well for me. thank you.
I guess I have "personal insight" as you say, thanks to therapy. before I'd only feel things and not ever put the thoughts with the feelings..... now I can do that a bit.... this has inturn reduced some of the anxiety..... so thankfully!
Thank you also for your time and reply.
.... and I will try to give an update.... though, I'm not very good at such.....
have this aversion to attention..... *rolls eyes*.... yea, I know, I need to get over this too. ...blah....

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by perpetuallysad

fins, I think you are very brave for starting this post and talking about your abuse and feelings. First of all, I completely sympathize with you about the mother thing, in fact, if I didn't know better I would honestly think you were my sister because you described some things exactly the same as they happened with me. Even the daycare part. Yikes, that is really scary.

Anyway, my first idea was maybe she (your t) just didn't realize she was doing it, but not in a bad, like "other side" way, but just in a goofy way. Not that your therapy sessions should be trivialized by T acting goofy, but is it possible? I ask because my husband is someone who spends all of his time talking to a lot of different people and I have noticed that he will do this sort of accent mimicking thing when he talks to a certain person...say if he talks to a really country accent type of person (I live in Mississippi, so believe me, we have some country talkers around here, nothing wrong with that, but you get my point) he will slip into a more relaxed and looser grammar style. Same with if he is talking to a big wig of some sort, he will speak very eloquently. Anyway, when I was in college I took a class about the history of the English language and my prof said its natural for people to change their register to fit their environment as a way to make themselves comfortable and to make the other person comfortable...god that took me way to long to get out, but anyway, do you think this could be what she was doing? Maybe just unintentionally dropping or raising her register?

You think I'm brave? well it was difficult..... thank goodness all here have been so kind and understanding.

Really? your mom too!!?? I'm so sorry you endured same. that is quite a coincidence-even the day care stuff! wow!

Now that I'm thinking about it and reading all these great replies...I'm guessing T. was getting so wrapped up in the point she was making, that an accent, of what I am guessing comes from HER mother,(as I know T. was born in the south and so I imagine her mother has such an accent) just came out of her when talking about children. but... it sure flew me for a loop! thanks for explaining about differing ways people speak-- it makes very much sense.
thank you as well for your time and reply

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

My Mom was very sensitive to this as well. In one phone conversation we kids heard her change from her own strong Midwest accent to the strong black Tennessean accent of the fellow on the other end of the line. When she hung up the phone and called out to us, she still had his accent - unforgettable!

I wonder whether T slipped into your accent, or some other? Either way, could be a gauge of how tremendously involved she was in your conversation. There was once a professor, at a prominent US college, who used to really get into his subject & would unconsciously abandon English entireily and start talking in his native German. Played **** with people who were trying to take notes.
Don't worry too much, can you? but talk to yr T - should prove an interesting discussion.

I've never heard of such a thing like some of you have talked about-- people dropping into accents.... gives me some food for thought.

About that professor-- Ha!! how you said about people trying to take notes! that's funny-- thanks for sharing that.... was funny!.

im already dreading talking to T. about this though.... ugh.... so don't like anyone to "know" where I'm vulnerable.... yipes.....

thanks too for your time and reply

[(JD)]

Yes, please talk with your T about this. Your T needs to know so you can go slower in therapy. Obviously you were triggered, and this may have been a dissociative event.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by treehouse

((((((purple_fins)))))))

About a year ago, I was in session with T and he asked me a question that was really unexpected and triggered me right back into a scary trauma flashback. In the midst of all of it, I looked at T and he looked DIFFERENT. I looked at his eyes and they were (are) the same color as one of my abusers, and I really REALLY felt and almost believed that he was my abuser in disguise, literally, that very person disguised as a T. And I was alone in a room with him. OMG. It was THE scariest moment, by far, that I've ever ever ever had in therapy. Like you, I pretty much dissociated and wasn't there for the rest of the session.

It was so, so scary to go back there and talk to him about it. The yuckiest part was that my safe person and my safe place had actually become traumatizing in themselves. I FORCED myself to go back and tell him what had happened.

He was so gentle and sensitive about it. I asked him to sit next to me on the other end of the couch so that I couldn't see him, because it was so scary to see his eyes. So, we were able to talk about it without me seeing him. It was hard, hard, hard, but I was honest about how I was feeling, how I had been triggered, and what I needed to feel safe again, and we found our way back to the safe place.

Like you, I expect people to have another side, and to eventually hurt me. Something that has been really hard for me to understand is that T is totally consistent. He's not going to love me one minute and hate me the next, or be nice one minute and mean the next. I bet your T is the exact same way. She did something and you felt scared, but feeling scared and not being safe aren't the same thing, you know?

I hope you can talk to T about what happened. As horrible as it feels to be triggered, the times that I *have* been triggered have probably been the most healing for me in the end.

Safe to you.

OMG!! I can just feel your trigger and upset when you were with your T. and that happened!!
treehouse....
breathe.... breathe(talking to myself...)..... that must have been so frightening.
You sure held on and kept brave-- wow!
(I hope I can be like that)
Oh, I'm so glad for you that T. was sensitive and gentle, what a wonderful T.
hmmmmm .."feeling scared and not being safe aren't the same thing, you know?"---- Gee, I'd not thought of it that way..... feeling scared and not being safe are not the same....... yea, I think I see that-- thank you! wow-- that does make a difference!
and thank you for your time and reply too.

[purple_fins]

I'm sorry I can't reply just yet to the rest of your great responses
H just got home and so I have to go......
I hope to be on later or sometime this weekend.
please know I've read them all and am truly taken aback by so much understanding and compassion-- wow!

maybe T. is right-- that there are many people out "there"(in the world) that have good hearts.

thank you all.

[WePow]

(((( fins )))) based on your replies, I think you have entered a time of your life that you will look back on as being the very best and most healing. You have the spirit it will take to walk this path. Keep on using this forum as a tool to help you out. There are tons of awesome people here who each bring a different viewpoint and life experience. And my T said that time spent here on PC does count as therapy hours! :-)

[MissCharlotte]

(Purple)
Sometimes people change their voices to make a point in a conversation and sometimes we just notice things midstream. I remember I told T (afterward) about a prior time when I couldn't understand anything he was saying and it was all so very confusing and he said that maybe I was listening with a younger "self." So, at that time a very young part of me was experiencing a sense of fear and confusion in the transference. There is a concept called the "mother tongue" and it has to do with the dialogue between infants and their mothers (I think). It sounds like you got caught up in a bit of the transference here and I encourage you to explain to T what you explained to us. I think you are doing great work! Take care of little you.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by peaches100

Purplefins,

I am so glad you found the courage to post!

It must have been terribly painful and confusing for you as a child to witness your mother's hurtful actions, and at the same time, recognize that other people saw her as being wonderful. So many times, people put their best foot forward in public and only close family members see their weaknesses and errors. As a child, seeing such different sides to your mom, and not understanding when her behavior would suddenly change, was bound to cause you confusion and fear. I'm sorry you are having to deal with the after effects now.

I also have Complex PTSD, along with other diagnoses, and I totally understand why it's hard for you to trust or feel safe with somebody. Traumatic experiences create intense feelings of anxiety and fear. After that, it only takes a certain kind of trigger to bring all the old feelings of being afraid/unsafe back again. It sounds like you need for your t to be consistently predictable in order to feel safe with her, and this sudden change in her speech has triggered you.

Like the others, i suggest you talk to her about this. Ask about the accent and let her know why it has triggered your anxiety/fear. She most likely understands PTSD reactions very well, and will be able to help you deal with the trigger and feel safe with her once again.

Thank you peaches
"sounds like you need for your t to be consistently predictable in order to feel safe with her, and this sudden change in her speech has triggered you. " yes! I think that is it exactly... though right in the moment, I didnt' understand why I was feeling so unsafe. took me a few hours to "join" the feelings with the thoughts.
Letting someone truly know how I feel is the hardest part-- heck it's been so easy to run and run and run from people/places.. but like I told T. --"I'm so tired of running"(it has messed up a lot of my life)... I really don't want to do that anymore-- so I must face things head on-- yipes!

thank you for your time and response-- it's very much appreciated.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Have you ever read Understanding the Borderline Mother, by Christine Ann Lawson? She characterizes them in several ways, one of which is "The Witch". That fit my mother most closely, but I could see her in all the others too. I recommend the book, not only to understand such mothers but also to validate your own experience of them.

Thank you pachyderm
No I've not read that book but I've seen it mentioned here before.... when I get a chance I will look into it. It sounds very interesting-- thank you.

I have read "Stop Walking on Eggshells", which was a great great help for me and a few of my siblings, in figuring out ways to deal with mother and how to handle her shoplifting, lying and pitting us offspring against each other. (cats out of the bag now-- we all know most of her games and we don't let her pit us against eash other anymore... though we all have just "surface" relations with each other.... guess we're all still not sure of each other) I also read "Healing Daughters of Narcisstic Mothers... will I ever be good enough" which was so "spot on" with my mother as a narcissist and her manipulation, I couldn't believe it!

I'm sorry you had to deal with upset as well. I hope in time you will find peace and much healing.

thank you for your time and response.

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by _Sky

Yes, please talk with your T about this. Your T needs to know so you can go slower in therapy. Obviously you were triggered, and this may have been a dissociative event.

I'm embarrassed to say ..... I had a confusing day yesterday(Saturday)... was "blanking out" all over the place......... i hate that that happens and so spontaneous... argh....(people have never understood, I'm known as the "bubble head" of the family they think I just forget, they don't understand that I was never really "there")
I hope in talking to T. things will feel better, though-- my anxiety up to that time is hard to cope with..... think I'll take the dog for a lot of walks!
thank you for your time and response

[purple_fins]

Originally Posted by MissCharlotte

(Purple)
Sometimes people change their voices to make a point in a conversation and sometimes we just notice things midstream. I remember I told T (afterward) about a prior time when I couldn't understand anything he was saying and it was all so very confusing and he said that maybe I was listening with a younger "self." So, at that time a very young part of me was experiencing a sense of fear and confusion in the transference. There is a concept called the "mother tongue" and it has to do with the dialogue between infants and their mothers (I think). It sounds like you got caught up in a bit of the transference here and I encourage you to explain to T what you explained to us. I think you are doing great work! Take care of little you.

thank you MissCharlotte
Oh my gosh!! the not understanding when someone talks has happened to me too. (I've always hated when it happens.. I get angry at myself and ask myself what the heck is wrong with me-- I KNOW English and this person was talking English, I should understand them...argh) I get too embarrassed to let anyone know.
I think it's awesome that you talked to your T. about it and he was so understanding.

I sure hope if.... what am I saying... if..... I mean when I talk to T. about feeling upset with the change of her accent...I hope she doesn't think less of me......
I don't want to appear weak or anything.....

thank you for your time and response

[purple_fins]

just thought I'd update......

went to T. a couple days ago and I actually talked to her about my concern from last week! -- her change in talking.(this is a big step... yipes... the anxiety!)
My inner-self was like--- Oh my gosh! I'm really bringing this up?!! ... was so nervous-- I feared she would get mad at me, say something like-- "fins, you are such a moron, don't you know who I am by now?argh!"... or that she would be offended and I'd hurt her feelings.... I so so don't want to hurt anyone ever. (.. feel somewhat responsible for the abuse my mother handed out to the daycare babies..... I never want to hurt anyone)

She calmly and compassionately explained about her heritage being from elsewhere and that she is still she. I told her I pushed beyond the "voice" that warned me to stay away..... and that a part of me felt it could, maybe, be safe enough to go and talk to her one more time at least..... so I did it!
and I'm relieved it's done and that I can go again
and know that she is still-- she.
phew....

fins