putting my foot in it -- told my therapist he loved me -- gah!

Kitten,

I'm sorry he gave you a 'dog's just died' look. I wonder whether he will acknowledge his change in demeanor when you bring it up at the next appointment. I think in any case it is good to bring it up as it's bothering you. We all say things we'd rather we hadn't in the freedom of the therapy room. I think you were angry - maybe your intention was to make him feel awkward/on the spot.

I've had at least one squabble with my T about time. To be honest I'm more pissed when he short changes me than goes over (he tends just to end on time). A few months ago his watch was fast and he ended up finishing 5 minutes early and I stared at him as I stood up but didn't say anything - he said "what's wrong?" - "nothing... are you angry with me?".. "why would you ask that?"... "oh, no reason". Later I sent him a fairly snotty mail about how I didn't appreciate waiting those 5 minutes in sub-zero temperatures for my train and he replied with something like "let's not pick a fight over minutes - after all last week I went over by at least as many minutes" - which made me MORE pissed off! What he didn't 'get' is that those subtle changes can easily be interpreted as 'reward' or 'punishment'. In the short-changed session I'd been talking about something I felt ashamed about and I took his ending the session early as a 'subliminal message' of disapproval/disgust.

Do you think T's just don't see how it's a problem? It's interesting that your T phrased it that "you had let him go over" - as if it was not of his making but yours. Maybe your response was your way of saying "No, it was YOU that made us go over, not me!". An easy solution is to keep an eye on your watch and get up when the time is up - but going into this reward/punishment thing could be very productive. It would be interesting to know why he does sometimes go over and other times not and what this really hangs on - could well have nothing directly to do with you - or maybe he doesn't even know specifically why.

I can imagine he does like working with you - you keep him on his toes and that makes life interesting!

This week my therapist said how if you put a man and a woman in a room together for hours and hours (I've seen him for over 250 sessions at this stage), there is bound to be some sexual tension/some sexual feelings emerging between them. The fact that that comment can be taken both ways made me feel awkward. I ended up saying something like "yes, but you are old and aloof - no knight in shining amour". I felt bad for being brutal - he's older than my father and well over twice my age and yet still I have sexual feelings for him (not overwhelming but they're there in the background) and that feels uncomfortable. The next session I apologised and he asked why I'd felt the need to put him in his place. It was a productive discussion and I think he weathered my comments quite well.

So I say, try not to beat yourself up about a flippant comment - bring it up, talk about it - he'll survive I'm sure and maybe it will turn out to be very productive.

Onzi

Your welcome, my pleasure!

Maybe he just didn't know how to react to that at the moment. It sounds like he wants to do what is best for you, so he probably was thinking what was best to respond and couldn't think that fast? Also, I think they can get uncomfortable too, of course, not because something is wrong with you, but just because it is kind of an out of the ordinary thing to say and it was at the very last minute. He could have just thought wow that is important and we need to process this, but we are more than out of time.....etc. What actually DID he say after that? Did he just say see you next week or what?

I really ID. I can get a shame attack at the smallest things, and they dont seem small at the time.
Youre writing, like others have said is so, so expressive, understandable and poingnant.
This is the reason why some T.s have boundaries of that sort of thing to save all the unnessacary issues that arise. In fact I'm in early days T. training, and I'd really appreciate if I could keep your words - anomimously as a useful example of what can happen as a result of the T. being mysterious and arbitrary. Let me know if that would be ok but if not thats fine too. Anomymously of course.

OK, not wanting to laugh at your pain, but it's actually REALLY funny to me that you said this! I can completely imagine saying this to my T. I'd likely say "Oh, it's because I'm your favorite." I'm often jokey and sarcastic, and he's the same with me. I'd been seeing my T for over 7 mo before I found out - from another therapist - that my appt. was only supposed to be 45 min long - thought it was 50-55. Took me another 3 mo to ask "How long is my appointment supposed to be?" I apologized for always making his day run late. He said, no, it's NOT something I am doing, it's entirely his choice, it's something he does. And then there are times when I really go over....

I do hope there is a chance to talk about it with him where there is time. It was a bit of an "OH CRAP" moment for both of you!

p.s. If you start a hug thread, I'll chime in.

Kitten, I have to agree with WePow in observing that you are a wonderful writer - so humourous! I loved "dumbosity", which describes my social interaction as well. I can see where your parental history might predispose you to thinking that your T is randomly punishing or rewarding you. On the outside, looking in, however, my take is that he probably does enjoy talking to you [good writers should make good conversationalists, when they don't have to make social small talk] and he is more than likely just being generous with his time, when he has the time. So it may not be that random. Like me, you may be too sensitive to the feelings of others, and I imagine that he actually thought you were teasing. I would treat it that way and not say anything more unless the subject came up. Maybe you could say something offhand to let him know that you weren't seriously thinking this, such as, "you have children don't you?" I would very likely feel similarly, but I honestly think this is not as serious as you believe. And I think you are probably just enjoyable to talk to [I have a same-sex case manager like that], so that time gets away or doesn't matter that much to T, unless he has other matters or another client that he has to get to. Just my thoughts. billieJ

Hi Fool Zero! I've followed your posts

Hm, you may be right. He absolutely vacuums up any little crumbs of everything I say and do and analyzes the living crap out of them, so it didn't really suprise me that he took a minute to pause.

God, I just felt so bad about embarassing him though. I like and respect and NEED him so much right now. It's so completely the last thing I wanted to do!

Whether he wants to or not -- and he's often stated that his goal is to be utterly neutral in our sessions -- he is constantly rewarding me for and deterring me from different behaviors. None of it is deliberate -- his reactions are just automatic, and the thing happens before either of us is aware of it.

When he gives me an experience like that (looking sick after I blurted out a stupid joke), it permanently changes how I act in session. I would never in a million years joke about a thing like that again. He's conditioned me, just like one of Skinner's pigeons!

It's sad, because he also is constantly telling me that being in session with him should be exactly like thinking for me. My mind should be transparent to him. The fact that he seems unable to create an atmosphere where I would feel safe enough for that to happen, is unfortunate. And I think it reveals some lack of self-knowledge of his own limitations. He shouldn't be asking for that kind of transparency on my part, when he's so utterly unable to disguise his responses.

The whole thing has just been disillusioning.

It's been almost nine months. There should be more easiness and elasticity in our relationship by now. It still feels rigid! :P

Thanks for your response!

Hi Billie! I appreciate your easygoing take on this. I sure as heck hope he hasn't been gnawing over it all week like I have.

Yeah, I hope he enjoys my conversation. I mean, it's always about death and dying and abuse and despair and stuff (that's why I'm in therapy after all), but I try to make it entertaining at least

I'm afraid he's going to refer me. The whole thing really shook the $hit out of me. I hope you're right and that it wasn't a big deal for him.

That is amazing that you bring up his kids -- just this morning I was wondering if he had any, and how I would ask him about it. He hates answering personal questions. He once nearly refused to answer my question about what color his eyes are. Just paused for a really long time, kind of glaring at me. And then he said they were green. But it was like I was asking for a diamond or something. (sigh)

Thanks for your response, Billie!

WePow, I think it's excellent that you're letting the hugging thing go right now. Better to have one less thing in session that you need to worry about. Maybe you can initiate one later on when you feel like it, if you want to return to the ritual. But it sounds healthier for you now!

And it's not at all running away! I used to love the Meditations of Marcus Aurelius. He talks about walking through the gym, when somebody suddenly kicks him in the head. It makes him furious, until he realizes the guy was just in there working out, and not trying to hurt him. So he took a different path next time, to avoid the untintentional head-kick. I think you've identifiied a problem area and determined to move away from it. That's very different from running away. On the contrary, it's the smartest thing you can do. Good for you!

Hi Onzi,
Thanks so much for your comments!

Yes, I think Ts are kind of insensitive about the time thing. Which is strange, because they seem aware of other aspects of the frame (as my T put it). He told me he would never be late, and he hasn't been. Also hasn't cancelled on me. He's taking a vacation, but he gave me a printout and it's weeks away. We had one problem with a money issue, but it was resolved -- and he even started printing out statements to avoid future confusion. He's really good about most things.

Just weird about the going-over! (sigh)

I was very interested in your astonishing comment that I was angry when I made that joke about my T loving me. So -- I'm not so innocent in all this as I thought. That's a very very difficult place for me to be. But something about it rings so very true. Thanks for that insight! Wow!

That's pretty funny what you told your T! He sounds like sweetie though

Hi Butterflying,
Good question. He didn't say ANYTHING. As in, speechless. Lately he's been really cheery at the end, thanking me for my feedback, saying see you next time, making me feel like life is good, etc. etc. But this time he just sat there looking sick as I hustled my sorry derriere outta there.

Poor guy!

I think you're right -- if it had come earlier in the session, he would have prodded me about it and asked me to elaborate.

I'll update you after this Wednesday! Maybe he'll just forget about it. Or pretend to. Sometimes he does that

Hi RiverX,
You can absolutely use my words! I'm super flattered. God, if this can help anybody else, it's almost worth it.

I'll pm you in a bit!

Thanks BlackCanary!

Yeah, I mean, I think I'm funny, but nobody else does. It's so weird -- I'm only funny when I write. I try to make one lousy joke in real life, and it goes over like a lead balloon.

Thank you for thinking I'm funny! (cries with joy)

Good idea about the hug thread. WePow has one too, but it's very personal to her and I don't want to hijack! I could do one to throw it out as a general question and find out how others have handled the issue. Thanks for the idea!

(((Kitten)))

It's interesting how this thread came to my attention while I am currently dealing with interpretations in therapy. You never really know what the other person is thinking/feeling unless they tell you.

This thread has given me a lot of insight on how I process things. I also go over and over situations like this in my head. I have a tendency to be sarcastic too. Sometimes I feel like I stepped over the line after something flys out of my mouth. When I say something that I perceive to make someone uncomfortable I ruminate about it until I can either make it right by either appologizing or until I see them again and can making sure they are okay (with me??? - self esteem issues??? - definitely). What I'm trying to say is that I hear what you're saying or should I say I feel what you're saying. I really appreciate this thread.

You've gotten a lot of good advice so I don't have much to add. I hope you decide to talk with your T to get his interpretation of that event.

I agree, you are an awesome writer. I forgot I was reading while I was reading your post. I love the term "writery"!

I am interested to hear how your next session goes. Good luck!

Thanks Slip!

You said:
It's interesting how this thread came to my attention while I am currently dealing with interpretations in therapy. You never really know what the other person is thinking/feeling unless they tell you.

Very true. And sometimes the T does tell you, but they're not in touch with their own motives/emotions/countertransference/whatehaveyou. So what they say doesn't make any sense. But even their evasions can be revealing. I'm trying to figure out all my therapist's stuff around that right now.

Yeah, I have the old rumination problem too. As you can see. It would bore (and has bored) the living crap out of everyone else in my life but the people on this site! They really get it

I tend to gnaw on something I think I did wrong in therapy all week. But if I bring it up again, my T either:

1) doesn't recall what I'm talking about
2) pretends he doesn't recall what I'm talking about (or so I suspect)
3) recalls the event vaguely, but VERY differently from how I do

...and/or:

4) accuses me of oversensitivity and grandiosity. Once he said, when I apologized for something I thought had made him uneasy: "You think I'm that weak, you can knock me over with a feather, that I've been so wounded by what you said? That you're that powerful?"

And I'm all, Well excuse the hell outta me!

The thing all these reactions have in common is that they minimize my perceptions and invalidate my emotions. It's puzzling. I think there's some counter-transference/insecurity thing going on with T over these issues, but I'm not sure.

Anyway, thanks for your input, Slip! I'll definitely be updating after Wednesday...It's like a soap opera, isn't it?

I haven't read most of the replies to this thread, so perhaps someone also thought as I did, but...

I wonder if he was speechless because he was unsure how to respond to such a loaded statement. By loaded, i mean on the surface (and I do this all the time) maybe you were saying jokingly that T loves you. But usually when joking around with the response from the other person is also joking and he couldn't joke back that he loved you or didn't love you because either way it would be likely hurtful and awkward. Underneath the joking is often a lot of real pain, and insecurities about being loved by T.

Hi TayQuincy,
This makes so much sense! He couldn't possibly respond jokingly in the same tenor, no matter what tack he took. It was my fault -- I shouldn't have put him in that position. That's really why I feel so bad, I think. I made the moment super awkward -- impossible, really -- for him. And I'm hating myself for it! :P

Yeah, I think you're getting to something important here. I've got tons of insecurity about my relationship with T. I want him to approve of me, but I hate needing his approval. He himself says we have an emotional connection -- the very basis for successful therapy, he told me (is that Adlerian?). I don't think he's afraid of my having feelings for him. And we've discussed the fact that I've had some ridiculously compulsive erotic fantasies (about him, no less), but without going into detail. To his credit he's been very open about these things. More comfortable with the sexual element, maybe, than the emotional.

I hope he'll realize the joke was all about my own insecurity. Gah!

Thanks for your insights!

kitten,
I'm so glad you understood what I meant given how badly I botched that one sentence! I guess I should reread what I write before I hit submit!

And try not to be so hard on yourself for what you said. You didn't really put him in any position...you were just being playfully spontaneous! I don't think it was a big deal at all, just maybe difficult to respond to in the moment.

Kitten, you seem to have caused such a response with your tender, truthfulness, that I think a few people are going to be waiting for the next episode with baited breath! I am @ least. Whens your next session ?lol

pm anytime, would be delighted to hear from you.

Ha ha! Thanks RiverX!

Tender truthfulness, that's me!

My next session is TODAY...Oh gawd oh gawd oh gawd...I'll tell you what's up. Maybe start a new thread.

Thanks for your help and support!

good luck sweetie!!!!!

We are on your side!!!! Remember to keep your wonderful sense of humor and it will all go well :-)

May the luck of the Irish be with you today!

Remember to breathe.

I will be watching for your post.

So...what happened???

I hope it all worked out when you talked about it
cheers!