Why do I care where the therapist sits?

Yeah, maybe, but that stick can be mighty handy!
I called today to confirm that I'll come in on Tuesday. He called back, we talked very briefly, our first 2-way communication since our session. I asked him why he doesn't call me on it when I'm being impossible. He said he figures it will pass.

I think I still want the next session to start with the introduction of this new thing, not like last week never happened but so that we really get the chance to talk about it face to face. I"m pretty much understanding of the need to reclarify on boundaries when they get out of synch, but still stinging from the lack of dialogue. Also the way in which his topic hijacked the entire session as a result. I want a do-over of the whole session. I can't come up with another way to process these feelings and this anger.

I'll give you my initial reaction to all of this. I think T should be the healthier one leading the way. If what you say is really and truly going on, I could not trust a therapist that couldnt be honest with me about the way he feels. Whatever his issue is, I wouldnt be paying money to help him with his issues. I guess I wouldnt trust that he could be honest with me about MY issues if he cannot bear to tell me the truth and would rather be uncomfortable than honest. That is an issue I (or you? I dont know?) would have anyway. Do I need my T to set a weird example like this?

The whole thing would sting for me. I read and re-read carefully what Sunny said. I think that she is right on target. Why did he stage a do-over and then not help you process your feelings? The do-over actually seemed to me to be for him. He wanted to sit there and he did. End of do-over. For me, that would add fuel to the fire of feeling invalidated and that my feelings were unimportant.

It looks like the topic is hijacking because there seems to be no resolution with him. Same with what to do with your feelings. He doesnt seem to understand what is going on here. Im curiouos about your other ruptures. There are a lot of things you said that struck me- such as it is always up to you to bring up the rupture and begin the repairing? And that you have said to him that you would rather know something from him than wonder. To me, those are biggies. I dont think you are being tough at all. At all. He does not seem to me to be working in a fully professional way either or managing his counter-transference. Im not thrilled with this guy.

Hey Blue, you are definitely making a good point, and it does cross my mind: is this the best I can do? I wrote out a 2 pg chart on this in January
He's definitely not as analytical or quick as me - my anxiety disorder taught me to rapidly consider all possible outcomes. He did not figure out how to use the do-over, he just repeated his same dumb move. When I told him he'd blown it, he was "Oh duh, of course!" My husband reminds me that guys don't do subtle....
I've got a life history of transference, seeking substitute parents, with teachers and bosses, so I'm projecting all sorts of roles onto the T. I'm a pro at making him brother, teacher, friend, coach, mentor, parent, even "boyfriend" (to my 18 yr old inner teen).

My woman's intuition says he really likes me (because who wouldn't?), and he's got counter-transference going on that he's never had to deal with previously and he doesn't have a resource to help him with that. His training did not have more than a cursory review of the topic. Maybe it's time to buy him a book on the subject.

In the past 20 yr, I've probably tried to start therapy 4 or 5 times. I never got past 1-2 visits, uncomfortable with the instant depth these Ts went to right away. This guy, I KNEW at the end of the first visit I wanted to return. This instant "fit" keeps me with him when things get rough. And makes me hesitant to make an appt with someone else.

He emailed to explain himself on why he needs to sit so he can fully see me - matched up with other comments above, makes good sense to my adult brain. My emotional self wants more groveling apologies for the poor handling of the change, and I got this "My apologies for these shortcomings"

I'm going to ask for another do-over. In a different room. Then I want to really peel apart this onion of WHY do I react like this? I am surely doing this outside of therapy with punitive consequences (at work or in family). Power, control, getting my way, acceptance/rejection, loved/not loved - so much to see. I'm thinking conference room with white board when I can sketch out my adult reaction, inner teen reaction and wounded/needy self reaction. I want to help the teen and needy selves that he cannot see. I think he'll be amenable to using a different space to get through this phase.
We will see!

Im wondering why are you doing a do-over. You know, you cant un-ring a bell. He acted the way he did. im saying this maybe b/c in life I have to be SO mindful of trying to do a do-over of my childhood to un-pain myself. But I cannot un-do or re-do the hurt. I have to feel it and work on it. Can your T work on this and how it made YOU YOU YOU feel? Instead of focusing on his shortcomings. I would imagine if you tell him (while keeping the focus on YOU) how you feel about how you feel when he did or said this or that, that it should be enough of a consequence for him and enough to make him be more aware of his "issues" or behavior. Youre not there to focus on him or dwell on his apology.

I get it that you feel he is a good fit for you and you like him. It makes this stuff all the more difficult. Have you been seeing him long?

Oh, and about guys not doing subtle, H is right, only this GUY is your therapist. he isnt a "guy" to you, he should be more in touch than the lowest common denominator of male.

I want the do-over as a way to process my feelings, understand myself. He won't obtain any make-up credits for it But, I do think this relates to the stuff I'm doing, like being able to move on regarding past hurts.

And he is SO the common male, not the lowest, but absolutely a regular guy. Which I've hoped will help me get over my general disdain for the regular guy. And he's always a guy to me, not gender neutral, and pretty appealing to my inner teen. He's the kind of guy I'd have hit on when I was 18. I'd enjoy him as a friend, but we know that's not possible.
We are about 16 mo along - we are in a pretty good groove.

You liked him right away because you knew you could be the top dog with him?

Since you've been seeing him for a while, it would make sense to work this through. You have history with him. Do you think about leaving there or do you know you are in this for the long haul? I shouldnt talk here, I didnt work it through with my previous therapist. I didnt think she had the ability to hear it in a theraputic way for me AND I didnt think I could handle her response, whatever it was, well.

AND...if I was in therapy with a guy I could have hit on when I was 18 it would be a HUGE problem! LOL! I have this issue with not seeing a male therapist that I have talked about on the board before. I would fall in love and that would be the main issue. I think sometimes about seeing a male T to work out my men issue, but I cant do it. I like my T now, but I am interested in seeing what might happen in a theraputic relationship with a male therapist.

How do you handle his male-ness? Especially since you see him as a regular guy!

@Sannah - boy, you are tough too! I may be smarter, but he knows WAY more than I do about therapy. Also, all the rules of therapy are his, and he has the final say. Our therapeutic relationship is just like others - T has the power, client does not. But you have clearly picked up my control/power issues, so we get to struggle with it regularly!
Others: When I tried with a T in 2007, I described the problem I was having with a bullying client at work, resulting in panic attacks. 2007-T started asking about my mom and family expectations. A bit too soon, on the first visit!
2009-When I started with this guy, I'd just had a heart attack at 43 and was depressed - barely out of bed each day and knew that more Prozac was not the solution. He laughed at my self-deprecating jokes, and said "we will just talk". He did not go beyond my starting point on day one. There has been plenty of time to get to the FOO, work relationships, etc.

@Blue: yes, it does make it complicated when we have worked on stuff from my 17-18th years. I've told him, you are just "her" type. But I have control of my body, don't let my inner teen drive or dial the phone! And I've done the whole range of transference, said I love you, but mitigated it on my side by talking to my husband about it and keeping him as the target of my love expressions. Did lots of research and expected to move through it eventually (took a year). T also NEVER wavered from his neutral position, never hugged or touched except a hand shake. I'd still say I love him, but like a friend. While some of the feelings are aligned to my sexuality, I've never wanted to have sex with him, cannot even imagine it.
There are times I wish he was female, more nurturing and mothering, able to hug.

I'm not sure this is how therapy HAS to be. My T has certain boundaries, and as long as I stay within those boundaries, I get to decide what happens in therapy.

So, I can decide where he sits and where I sit. I get to decide if there is a hug at the end of session or not. I get to decide whether or not to show up for session! I get to decide what we talk about. I can adjust the lighting in the room. If I e-mail or call, *I* get to decide whether or not he responds! (because he will only respond if I specifically ask).

I know my T works really hard to make sure that I have as much power as possible in the relationship, and I REALLY appreciate it.

I don't think either way of doing therapy is right or wrong....I just wanted you to know that it doesn't HAVE to be "T has power and client does not".

Thanks for saying this, Tree. I never thought of it that way. When *I* choose these things that I have the power.

It's a good point - I have the power of the topics and the power to work on my stuff and truly learn & change, or just coast. I could not show up, but I'd have to pay a missed appt penalty. He gives me one appt at a time - not the same time each week. I can ask to change things, lighting or seating, and he's often agreeable, but in the end he has the ultimate veto.

I'm super sensitive to feeling unequal, esp. with a man... So, maybe a better statement is that my therapy is like many others, where there is unequal power: more granted to the T, less to the client. And to the T granted great responsibility to use the power with care. For me there is risk in trusting him with my feelings, trusting that he will not hurt me.

Canary, you are a good sport! You can dish it out and you can take it too. I really respect that!

Hmmm, I think that I am seeing this as that you want all the power and when he has any, that belongs to him, you see this as veto power over you and what it really is is just his power that belongs to him???

Good stuff to work through........

I went ahead and wrote him that today, about the unequal feeling. I'm not sure he was aware that I viewed the side-by-side as more equal and that the change was WOOSH pulling away my sense of equality, a sense that he respects me. To him, he was fixing an out-of-balance situation with himself, expecting to make it better for me and him.

He gave this explanation for why he needs to be able to see me - it definitely matches up with some of the early comments in this thread.
Sitting next to you, while a valid experiment, was ultimately not working for me. It was not painful, it was not uncomfortable and, I think, we did get some good results but it felt that it wasn't allowing me full use of my faculties (being able to see you and therefore gauge your response is so important that without it, it makes it difficult for me to do therapy). Therapy is my livelihood. A professional basketball player could likely be effective under less than ideal circumstances (playing with the wrong shoes, playing with an under-inflated basketball etc), but that choice to play under those circumstances would damage the players game in the long run and he/she would be more effective in the short run by playing with the right shoes etc.

Yes, his regular guy-ness shows in the use of a sports analogy , but it was a good one to use.

Very good Canary! I am so glad that you told T what you are struggling with. It will be so good for you to work through this with T. I hope you continue to keep us posted.

Here's how the appt turned out:
He led me back, pointed out the conf room but asked me to come into the office. He said he was concerned that someone might walk into the conf room while we were meeting.
He sat at his desk, which faces a wall.
I sat to the left his left, at the side of the desk, back to the wall.
It is what it is.

Once I realized I'd likely go back, I'd decided to hold on to/maintain access to the emotions vs. move on. I wanted to have the emotional self in the session and see what I might learn.

That I might have power or equality from the seating arrangement had not occurred to him (but he said "Gee it's so obvious now that you say it).

I talked about the super strong reaction and tried to think of when I might have had a similar event, one where the rules changed and I lost power, trusted person caused me a hurt.
yeah..... so, there's that......
He also asked me to broaden the view to think of when something changed for my whole family, and that was useful.

I also talked about how the dialog with you all (lovingly called "The Cloud") and how it helped me to consider that there might be a middle ground, something to learn, and that I cannot control everything (try as I might!).
He was really impressed that I moved from "never want to see you ever again and will not miss you" to having a reasonable session a week later, great that I used my resources. VS it taking 1-2 yr like my hubby predicted

He did validate when I told him I thought he'd moved away because he was afraid I might touch him (arm touch during conversation). That is part of it. So, we will have more work to do in this area.

And, I'm still feeling unbalanced, unsettled, due to the loss of my perceived power and equality. I'm back to asking "is this OK" and apologizing for asking for the neutral room, saying sorry I like him so much since it makes him so uncomfortable. So, still more work to do.

I put together a pic of a basketball player in wingtips, to represent his analogy of a pro wearing the wrong shoes. When I gave it to him, I had to explain the whole durn thing (dude, he's wearing WING TIPS, like in your analogy)!

Canary, very good work!!!!! Keep working it and you will work through it. Very, very good!!!

Amusing epilogue:

Today in the mail I got a survey from my HMO regarding my visit with my counselor on May 4.
Really.

I get to rate him on:
My confidence in his ability or competence!
How well he explained things to me!
How satisfied I was with the service I received!
The extent to which he exhibited warmth and caring!

The rest of the survey (6 of 30 are about the actual visit) is unrelated to the service he provided - it's about appt services, lab, convenience, will you renew, etc.

If I truly focus on that visit, it's not good. But, I'd like to be honest. He's told me before that it is not an input into his performance review.

BlackCanary, it sounds like you are adjusting well to the new situation. I thought it was very funny your T used a sports analogy. And even funnier you had to explain the wingtip picture to him.

His explanation to you seemed really thoughtful, about not being able to be as effective as he was capable of without seeing your reactions. I remember part of what you didn't like about his moving away from you was that it increased the distance between you. Did he mention that? It seems like he might be able to face you to see your reactions but move closer too (if it's a lightweight desk chair, that's not too hard). That might help you feel closer without diminishing his ability to see.

I love that your T sees us as a positive resource!

When I first went to see my T, he used to sit right in front of me in his swivel, desk chair. Really close. I loved it. Over time he moved onto the couch, still facing me, but a couple feet further away. I still miss his physical closeness. It made it easier to connect. I think it can make his work a little harder, as he has to try harder to connect since he sits further away. He's done a good job, though. I wonder if he sat closer to me at first in order to establish our relationship, and because I was needier. Now we have this close relationship going on and I'm not so needy, so he can move away. My guess is it is none of the above, but because of his back or something.

BC, if it were me, I would give your T the highest ratings possible on the HMO survey. That may not completely reflect your current opinion of him, but the HMO uses these things to get comprehensive scores for their providers. If someone drops too low, the HMO might not include them in their providers anymore. Since you want to keep seeing him, it seems like you wouldn't want that!