[rainbow8]

Okay, it's time for another one of these threads. There's SOME truth in what Tiberius posted that we are T's job. We ARE. But we aren't JUST T's job? I know I'm not, am I? People in the helping professions care about their clients/patients/ students. I KNOW that. But it still bothers me enough to start this thread. I think I asked my T something like what I'm asking, and she said "this is very hard. I wouldn't be doing it just for the money." She said something like that.

[Ygrec23]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Okay, it's time for another one of these threads. There's SOME truth in what Tiberius posted that we are T's job. We ARE. But we aren't JUST T's job? I know I'm not, am I? People in the helping professions care about their clients/patients/ students. I KNOW that. But it still bothers me enough to start this thread. I think I asked my T something like what I'm asking, and she said "this is very hard. I wouldn't be doing it just for the money." She said something like that.

rainbow, I don't know what kind of job you have, whether it's really a "job" job (i.e., data entry for a big company, cashier for a bank, being a waitress, etc., etc.) or whether you have the kind of job that calls for an emotional commitment way beyond that involved in a "job" job. In my experience, most "people" jobs (LCSW's, RN's, physical therapists, psychologists, doctors of any kind) are a lot more trouble than they're worth in terms of pay. Almost anyone in such a position could make more money doing something else. Most "people" jobs (again in my experience) attract individuals who are fascinated with their work and really like to help other people. Are they all like that? Don't be silly. Of course not. But most of them are. Eight out of ten therapists you find through the yellow pages really care about helping you feel better. Their own personality and personal sense of fulfillment depend on helping you and on your success. It's quite distressing to have such a people job and not be able to help some clients. That's personal experience talking. Is there something about your own T's conduct that makes you wonder? If there is then it's quite important that you talk about it with her. Her answer to your question sounds quite honest. And, again, with the same amount of education and training she could probably be doing a job at double the rate of pay. Take care!

I think what it is starting to come down to for me is trusting my feelings. I've intellectualized about it a ton, I've compared it to my own experiences working in mental health, I've asked T about it, I've read about it.

In the end, though, I can FEEL that I am not just a "job" to T. T has taught me slowly, slowly, slowly over the last 3 years to check in with myself and trust what I feel. I can feel T's caring for me. I know that I am important to him. I know that he likes me and loves me.

I miss T terribly sometimes (like right now, over the holidays), but I am grateful for the boundary of paying him. It doesn't make our relationship "less than". It makes our relationship "different". He is there to help me, and I pay him for his expertise and guidance. That doesn't mean that we're not people with feelings.

I grew up not trusting how I felt. I was lied to constantly by adults, and made to believe that my feelings were almost always wrong. Now, I know that they were almost always RIGHT, and still are. I just had to learn to recognize them, and trust myself.

[rainbow8]

Thanks so much, Ygrec and tree. I agree with both of you! Especially with my current T, who I know for sure is not just doing her job with me. But, still.....I get triggered when someone posts a comment about this subject. It's because of the boundaries of the therapeutic relationship, I think. I wish I could call or email my T to tell her something like I'd tell a friend. We get along so well, but I still can't do that. So, it makes me remember that I AM her "job". Not "just" her job, but not her friend either.

[WePow]

I would have thought I was just T's job. In fact, I don't even think my college T remembers me at all! ((I wrote an email to him after 10 yrs being out of college and all he wrote back was "You're welcome"))

But my T is different. It feels different. And he has mentioned other clients with issues like mine and said "I sometimes wonder how they are doing." His eyes have a far away look that makes me know he really does think about his clients - even past clients.

Based on that, I am very comfortable knowing that while T has to treat me as a client and not a friend, I am not someone he will forget.

Perhaps the question isn't who are you to t, but what is his job to his life. My t not too long ago talked about how he has a very full and fullfilling life outside of his job, with family friends, hobbies, interests, etc. He knows that if for some reason he was unable to no longer do his job, he'll be okay. He has a great deal of back up support. Yes, his job is his career, but it is not his entire life. He hopes that for me too. He enjoys his job. He is fortunate to have a career that her enjoys each and every day with people he gets to help each and every day, but it is what lies outside the realm of his profession that will be most sustaining to him, in his opinion.

[jazzy123456]

i think its both..a job and a reward for both the client and the therapist. its not just a job but, in some ways it is and in some ways it isn't.

not sure i am going to like this thread,

i canceled my appt with t and asked to be taken off the cancellation list, then t called and offered an appt anyways. it made me feel good all weekend that he thought of me (hate the holidays) i didn't go but have the vm and all weekend long listened to it and felt good. like he cares(d)

now i am not so sure....

[Dr.Muffin]

hope its okay if i chime in here....

this thread is interesting to me because, as i think about it, i realize that i separate my clients from my employer. the agency i work for is "just a job." i cant go investing too much time and energy into that agency because at the end of the day, that agency doesnt give half a crap about me! but my clients...them, i care about. i enjoy them and cant stand them and they make me laugh and make me cry and i can run the gamut of emotions when it comes to my clients because i AM invested and i DO care about their well-being.

but, as was mentioned upstream, my job isnt my life. there's more to me than being a therapist and i sometimes wonder if that would be true if i were in private practice. i think the agency helps me to keep my boundaries and the boundaries help me to keep things in perspective. im not a superhero. i have to take care of me if im going to be able to take care of them.

[darkrunner]

It depends on the T and I kind of think it can change. I used to think my T really cared....she talked about how she loved what she does...it is her second career and she wishes she found it sooner, etc etc.
Now she talks about how she wishes she didn't have to come to work but she does because she needs the money.... she has said stuff like this a couple of times.....the last time was just last week in a conversation we were having about decisions and consequences.
So I think it depends on the personal life of the T and I also think it depends on the client.

[Tiberius]

rainbow8, please accept my most sincere apologies for making you feel this way. It was never my intention to hurt your feelings or anyone else's.

I do, however, have a few more thoughts on the subject that I'd like to share with those willing to listen. Please do yourself a favor and don't read further if you fear that you might not like what I'm about to write.

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I think I asked my T something like what I'm asking, and she said "this is very hard. I wouldn't be doing it just for the money." She said something like that.

Your therapist is right. Most people who become therapists probably don't do it for the money. But that doesn't mean that they do it exclusively because they want to help people. There are people who like psychology, study psychology, and once they are done studying psychology, need to do something for a living. People who study psychology can pursue a job unrelated to psychology or a job related to psychology; most probably pursue the latter. But what types of psychology jobs are available other than those that involve doing therapy? Because not everyone can make the cut to work as a psychology professor or a researcher, they do the next best thing, which is also the most obvious choice: therapy. If they ultimately choose to do therapy rather than a job unrelated to psychology, does it mean that they want to help people? Probably, but that doesn't mean that they want to help everyone or that they want to help everyone equally. Even if they legitimately want to equally help everyone, it may happen that after so many years of dealing with so many people and hearing the same stories over and over they become desensitized and do their job on autopilot. At that point it's hard to believe that they care about the individual patient as much as they care about the satisfaction that they get from knowing that they helped another patient.

Originally Posted by treehouse

In the end, though, I can FEEL that I am not just a "job" to T. T has taught me slowly, slowly, slowly over the last 3 years to check in with myself and trust what I feel. I can feel T's caring for me. I know that I am important to him. I know that he likes me and loves me.

Just because you "feel" that something is a certain way doesn't mean that it is. Your assertions beg the question, how do you know that your therapist did not use his or her knowledge of psychology to make you feel the way you feel right now?

Originally Posted by WePow

But my T is different. It feels different. And he has mentioned other clients with issues like mine and said "I sometimes wonder how they are doing." His eyes have a far away look that makes me know he really does think about his clients - even past clients.

And you don't believe it is possible that he understood where you were coming from and said what he said and acted the way he acted in order to put you at ease?

Originally Posted by WePow

Based on that, I am very comfortable knowing that while T has to treat me as a client and not a friend, I am not someone he will forget.

Easier said than done, but you shouldn't care if your therapist forgets or remembers you. Even if he were truly your friend, it really doesn't matter because you will probably never see him again once the therapy is over or get to know him on a personal level. Remember, it's all make-believe. That's how therapy works.

[PreacherHeckler]

Please tell me you're joking, Tiberius, because I can't believe that a rational, intelligent human being could actually believe that psych majors who become T's do so because they "can't make the cut to become psychology professors or researchers." My T is both a psychology professor at a small but highly competitive private college AND a T. Guess maybe he had to become a T and a professor because he couldn't make the cut to become a researcher.

[WePow]

Originally Posted by Tiberius

And you don't believe it is possible that he understood where you were coming from and said what he said and acted the way he acted in order to put you at ease?

Easier said than done, but you shouldn't care if your therapist forgets or remembers you. Even if he were truly your friend, it really doesn't matter because you will probably never see him again once the therapy is over or get to know him on a personal level. Remember, it's all make-believe. That's how therapy works.

Tiberius, he said what he did in context of session talk about DID and the ability of a person to become whole. This had nothing to do with him trying to put me at ease about anything related to how he could remember a client. And it was not what he said, but deeper. And yes, people like me (and others on PC) who have severe PTSD have the skill (honed to almost perfection) to sniff out BS. A therapist who is not sincere with us sticks out like a neon sign.

There are many days when my T is off his game. I know it, and he knows it. We have a session but he is not "as there" as he can be and usually is. When he gives me something just because he thinks I need to hear it, I actually call him out on it and we talk about it. He will tell me that it is something that he learned and thought it might help me but it isn't something he knows much about. If what he did with me was make-believe, I would be dead because I would have felt it in one of his many human times - he would have slipped. And for me this past year, that would have been fatal on certain days.

He is not just doing his job, and he knows it. He has had my life in his hand and he knews it. He has stayed with me for an extra hour and would not let me try to pay him for the extra time - because he was being THERE for me and it had nothing to do with his clock.

Also, he believes that those of us (he includes himself) who have severe abuse histories have a RIGHT and a need to have one human who will be real and will be THERE for them for a lifetime (or as long as they can be). My T has his own T who is that person for him. And I believe strongly that he is my lifelong T.

I don't think that what I have with my T is a standard theraputic relationship though. In that, I mean to say that I feel like I am very honored and blessed to have this relationship.

[skeksi]

I simply can't see things the way you do, Tiberius. I have no doubt that some therapists are as clinical and detached as you describe, but painting professionals wih such a broad stroke seems difficult.

For example, because I work in a people-based profession (not therapy) and I really do feel value and feel connected to the individuals I work with, I am inclined to see therapists the same way. My clients matter to me, and the time we spend together is real, and when I see them again ten years on in passing, I am elated because I've been wondering how they've made out.

I know I matter to my T because he's told me so, and he makes his living based on his honesty and openness about his emotions. He's been equally open with me about more unsavory feelings, like frustration with me, even when he knew it would hurt me and make therapy problematic.

He does therapy because it's his job, I have no doubt about that; he does this job--and not a million others--because something in it feels rewarding and good to him about it.

[Fartraveler]

I don't think professional boundaries preclude caring. I am sure my T cares about me, because I have known her for nearly 10 years, and I know the kind of person she is.

Lots of professions have boundaries, like teaching, or say being a minister or a rabbi. But I think people accept that a teacher can genuinely care for their students, and that a religious leader can genuinely care for people in their congregation.

And when you think about it, everyone's got boundaries. I mean, having good boundaries are one of the important skills that people learn in therapy. Having good boundaries with kids, significant others, neighbors. Boundaries are a place to be separate from people, but also a place to connect with them.

Perhaps one of the reasons that therapy has such formal boundaries is because it's a skill so many in therapy need to learn, and it's easier to learn about boundaries when they're drawn so boldly. Perhaps that's also why therapeutic boundaries are so frustrating. People in therapy are often still learning how to be comfortable with boundaries of any type, and particularly the personal or intimacy boundaries that are a key part of therapy.

Originally Posted by skeksi

For example, because I work in a people-based profession (not therapy) and I really do feel value and feel connected to the individuals I work with, I am inclined to see therapists the same way. My clients matter to me, and the time we spend together is real, and when I see them again ten years on in passing, I am elated because I've been wondering how they've made out.

I know I matter to my T because he's told me so, and he makes his living based on his honesty and openness about his emotions. He's been equally open with me about more unsavory feelings, like frustration with me, even when he knew it would hurt me and make therapy problematic.

I second both of these things. Working in mental health, I had the EXPERIENCE of caring about the clients I worked with. They are human, so am I...it only makes sense that we would have human feelings for each other...and even more so in therapy, when so many hours are spent together, one-on-one.

And, like skeski, I do believe in my T's honesty and authenticity. It took me a long time to build that trust, because of my history, but I cherish it now.

[rainbow8]

I like the validating responses. I see my T on Tuesday and I can't wait. I've been okay but I want that hug she didn't give me because I might have been a carrier for stomach flu. She'll be glad to see me, too. I know it!

[ladyjrnlist]

One cannot be an effective therapist without being able to care about one's clients. When I was a reporter, I cared about my work and the people I dealt with daily...some of them were even friends. It is possible to have a career and be able to care about your clients, sources, patients...etcetera.

[WePow]

Rainbow, you might want to do what I did when my T couldn't offer me a hug when he was feeling sick (and he called me and let it be MY choice if I wanted to "risk" going into the office for session ;-) ) But the next time I saw him, I asked him for a hug at the start of session to make up for the one missed!! He gave it to me too! And one at the end as well !!! :-) I am so happy for you that you are feeling that bond with your T. You know your T would want you to feel that right now.

[WePow]

Oh and on a side note, I work in IT on a helpdesk. Now that is a place most people would think the person on the other end of the phone doesn't care about them. I have been in this career for 11 yrs now. And yes, I still remember many of the people I assisted (many just a few times over the phone).

I have to keep it professional when on a call, but I can tell you that there have been times when an account manager has told my team about one of our customers being in the hospital or passing away (so we would remove them from our contacts) and I have went home and cried. I have also seen a grown man on my team leave the room in tears when one customer's husband was in a bad wreck.

I can tell you stories about password changes from people I only talked with one time - because they would pick something and then they felt some need to explain their choice to me. I won't forget some of those very intersting people. For example, one teacher at a school for the blind wanted to set his security answer to pink because it was his favorite color. He told me he was blind but he grew up with a little cousin who was very kind to him. She was like a sister to him and he just loved her and always thought that if he could ever see color that the color pink would be his favorite because it reminded him of her.

I am not a therapist, I am just a helpdesk tech. But I care and remember things like that. And I sometimes wonder about certain customers and hoped they were doing very well in life. So I know a T remembers things and thinks about people.

[darkrunner]

I really don't see the point of trying to convince anyone of anything.
No one can really know for sure, and no one can really give a valid opinion except for their own specific experiences/Ts.

It's not a black and white issue.
There are some Ts who 'care' and some who see their clients as just a 'job'.

[with or without you]

Originally Posted by WePow

For example, one teacher at a school for the blind wanted to set his security answer to pink because it was his favorite color. He told me he was blind but he grew up with a little cousin who was very kind to him. She was like a sister to him and he just loved her and always thought that if he could ever see color that the color pink would be his favorite because it reminded him of her.

That's a beautiful little story.

[Tiberius]

Originally Posted by PreacherHeckler

Please tell me you're joking, Tiberius, because I can't believe that a rational, intelligent human being could actually believe that psych majors who become T's do so because they "can't make the cut to become psychology professors or researchers." My T is both a psychology professor at a small but highly competitive private college AND a T. Guess maybe he had to become a T and a professor because he couldn't make the cut to become a researcher.

Of course there are people who become therapists because that's what they want to do, and that's fine. Your therapist is a perfect example. But what about those who weren't dreaming of doing therapy while they were in school but ended up doing therapy because they couldn't find a better way to put their education to some use?

[Omers]

Ok, jumping in blind here as I have only skimmed... However, for my current T I am very much only a job for her and that is the only "relationship" she will ever have with me now that she is my T. We had been aquaintences previously but she said very clearly upon schedualing the first appontment that once that was set I would be a client and there was no going back. She does however have a great deal of "pride in her work". For me as much as I admire her and would have loved to have been friends or better yet to have her as a mentor my being "a job" is what has made this theraputic relationship work where others have failed.
But I have been other things to other Ts... To my first T I was a gutsy kid trying to make it with all the cards stacked against me. She admired my fight and drive, she was inspired that my ability to love had remained. We have been friends for 15 years now and so she is free to tell her side. I will never forget the morning at her kitchen table when, over a cup of tea her eyes begain to fill with tears as she told me that one of her biggest regrets was not knowing how to help me. Shortly there after she retired and was shredding old client files. she asked if I would like mine. I took it just because I didn't want it shredded as then I would never have the chance to go back should I want to. When I did get the courage to open it there were many pages from my most difficult times that were dotted with her tears.
So... my answer would be yes, no and maybe... depending on the T... just to clarify

[Melbadaze]

I just know.