T today - SO sad

I think, rereading these posts, that a big part of what is freaking me out is that a boundary moved. I have counted on T from day one of therapy to hold really really firm boundaries. It was a LONG, SLOW process to get to where we're at, relationship-wise. I know I've mentioned this before, but T didn't even get up and move to his desk to get something without warning me early in therapy. He knows boundaries are a huge huge huge huge deal to me. When I was seeing another T for something 2 winters ago, and she wanted to consult with him, he said that the main thing her told her were that boundaries were extremely important to me, and that *I* get to set the boundaries.

So. My sessions have been 55 minutes for as long as I can remember. Sometimes 60. And the thing is, sometimes when I am in the waiting room, clients walk out of T's office, right on the hour, so unless they started 10 minutes late, they were in there for longer than 50 minutes. So, I've always assumed that time-keeping wasn't T's strong point, and literally didn't think anything of it.

After yesterday, I'm wondering....am I getting extra time? More than other people? It literally makes me SHAKE to wonder about it.

The thing is, we were talking about 4 sessions that I've been late for, and his response to that lateness. ONE couple started their session 5 minutes late during all of that. And I am TOTALLY SPINNING OUT.

I know that a lot of this is old stuff. People haven't had boundaries with me in the past, and HERE I AM, you know? And the only other counseling relationship I had, when I was in high school, ended up in a really bad, really inappropriate way

I think I'm taking something small and making it into something big. But I don't KNOW. It's scary.

I'm seriously really scared. And people's comments here about "T needing to keep the boundaries" are scaring me.

I don't want anything to go wrong with my T. I keep trying to tell myself that he's the same T he's always been, but I'm scared.

And I feel like there is something about *ME* that makes people not keep boundaries. There was something about me when I was 4, and there is still something about me. There is something wrong with me and it will never ever ever ever end.

I see now, T keeping firm boundaries helped you to feel safe and if his time keeping boundary isn't firm then he isn't safe anymore? I can see how this would trigger you.

Of course the other boundaries that were violated with you with the other people were very serious and this time one isn't serious BUT it is triggering.

Recently, I was reading comments on PC by a T regarding time boundary. The T was commenting on how difficult it was [for him/her] to hold a time boundary with clients. How, often times, the client(s) needs a couple of more minutes ( or MORE) and T is happy to give to them. It was an area this T wanted to improve about himself/herself. It had NOTHING to do with the client. When I read your initial post, I thought back to that comment.

Once, my T asked..."Why, does everything have to be about YOU?" I was mad at her when she made the comment. It sounded so negative. It was, her comment, in response to similar feelings of *ME*. My T wanted me to realize that I "OWNED" everything, even in those moments it was not mine to own. I may be wrong, but could this be what is happening here?

Your T IS the same T. Nothing is going to "go wrong" with him.

Hang in there, Tree. It will all be ok. Your T sounds like a GREAT T, and I know he will help you process this in a way that is helpful for you!

T left me a message. I need to listen to it again.

I think he said that he's proud of me for staying with all of these feelings yesterday. And he said that we would be gentle and care-filled and patient while I work through all of this confusion - about love, boundaries, what I deserve, etc.

He said to call back if something else comes up or if I need another message before the weekend.

I am SO confused. Part of me feels like, "yay, there's safe T, he hasn't changed, everything is okay". Part of me feels like "RUN"

(((((((((tree))))))))))

Don't run.

Your T is proud of you. Therapy is hard work. You are doing a GREAT JOB!

((((((((((((Tree))))))))))

I think T knows how important boundaries are for you. He knows about how boundaries need to be solid for you to feel safe. (ie what he told the other person) So he wants to talk about this to make sure that you feel safe. He does not want you to feel unsafe. So he wants to process what has happened. You mentioned that other people have come out of Ts office on the hour. My guess is that this means that he gives lots of people a few extra minutes. His revelation may not just have been about your time together, but about how he works his whole practice.

I'm sure that if you go in and say to him that you need 50 minutes, no more no less, T will honor that need and make sure that you are in and out in exactly 50 minutes. He will hold that boundary for you. He wants you to feel safe.

I know that you have told other people here that when you want to run that is the time that you need to go back because there is something to work on.

Be gentle with yourself.

I can't believe how much this has brought up for me.

I was afraid that if I told T the last piece of my story that there would be a flood of....something...when I was done. And here it is.

The flood is *I* am the perp, the flood is that there is something about *me* that makes people have bad boundaries, the flood is that *I* am responsible for how other people feel and therefore I'm responsible for what happened to me when i was little. It's overwhelming. I feel like something exploded in my head. I don't even feel safe. I don't know hwat to do.

T asked if we can talk on the phone at 2:30. We can't. I have to take my 8 year old somewhere and I can't change it.

I really really relaly reawlly don't know if i'm going to be okay.

That's what you were told, tree -- by people whom you trusted. I should know. Similar things happened to me.

It almost seems as though under some circumstances ("trust" -- whatever that is) those people can write directly to our hard drives, and we can do nothing about it. And to overwrite that stuff, to change the message, to rewire the brain circuits, we have to "trust" someone else! Swearword here.

Tree, yeah your be ok, we all are at the end of the day, though it feels as if we're not. I use to feel afraid when T first ever offered to send me cards when shes away. Like you I felt I was going to "destroy" T, then she'd turn into my abusive mother and punish me, the only solution is to keep talking about it, as T said to me, "I am very resilient, you can't destroy me". Though at the time it didn't make a huge difference to how I was feeling, the word "Resilient" always hovers in my mind now whenever I feel in that place of being to much, my feelings being to much, a little voice now says, Oh don't be silly, T is very resilient, something my parents never were, themselves being adult children, adult children create adult children.

T called me but I was in the car with my son so I couldn't talk. He asked if he could talk and I could listen. So that's what we did.

I wish I could remember what he said. I think he said that "then" and "now" are not the same. And that "now" we can talk about ANYTHING that comes up, and that I couldn't do that "then". And that he's really really proud of me for sticking with this and that it's so different than it was in the past for me (in my therapy).

He said that I'm not responsible for other people's feelings, that I didn't make what happened to me happen to me when I was 4, or 8 or ever.

He said that he feels sad that it's making me feel so sick (because my tummy REALLY hurts).

I dont know what else he said. He said if I need to, I can call his voice mail and he'll listen to whatever I need to say.

It feels like I am in a nightmare, literally. I can't wait to wake up.

((((((tree)))))))

It sounds to me that you are identifying with the perpetrator. In your first message it really struck me how this whole thing made you feel as though you were the perp. And I found it really hard to see the connection -- well, that's because you really were not the perp, quite obviously. Any outsider can easily see that. But can you explain to yourself why this made you feel like the perp? Perhaps it would help you see things more clearly. Are you feeling guilty for what happened to you back then?

Sending lots of hugs to you.

((((((((Tree))))))))))

I care about you so much. You are a good person. You did not make these things happen to you. You were vulnerable. But you are strong now. You are able to tell T what you need. He will respect the boundaries that you nee. You were the victim. You were not at fault and will never be at fault for what happened. I think sometimes it is easier to connect with the feeling of the perpetrator because it gives us the feeling of power in the situation. If we are the perpetrator, then we have the power. It is hard to admit that in the T relationship, it is up to T to keep the boundaries about things like time when we put ourselves in a situation where we have to trust so much and be vulnerable. It is easier to feel like we have the power in the situation. And in the past the person with the power was the perpetrator. So we want to have that power. We want to be the ones with the power. It is hard to admit we are in another situation where we have to share the power. But we can control some of the power. You can tell T what you need and he will respect that. The two of you can share the power. But in the end it is his job to protect you and keep you safe in T. And I know that you have a great T so he will be willing to do this.

ocean. I feel like somehow I manipulated T into changing a boundary. and that makes me feel like when i was 4 i manipulated the perp to do what he did to me, because i was needy, and wanted to be loved, and sought his attention. i wanted him to love me. he said he loved me.

i liked having the extra 5 minutes. and that makes me think about how my 4 year old body responded sometimes to the abuse. and that makes me want to literally literally literally disappear.

Ah, I see! Now it makes complete sense.

Tree, I think your T can solve this issue for you. Could you tell him that THIS is what those extra five minutes mean to you. That THIS is the connection you are making. He would need to reassure you that he is giving those extra minutes to you in a safe way, and that your accepting and enjoying those extra minutes is a safe and positive thing. It is allowed, and you don't need to feel guilty.

In the past, when you were 4, what you wanted from the perp was love, the way in which a four-year-old understands that. And love, for the child, does include some healthy physical aspects, such as safe touching or hugging, etc. And the child naturally enjoys those physical manifestations of safe love. But the perp gave you what HE meant by love, which was child abuse. He confused the two for you (i.e. love and abuse), and you were too young to make the distinction. And for that reason, what he did to you was manipulation. He made you think that THAT was supposed to be love.

Now, in the present, your love for T and his love for you are both safe. You both want the same thing: your healing. Would it help to think of ways in which you can separate the past experience from what you are having now with T? To write a list of all the differences - and focus on those, rather than the resonance?

(((( HUGS ))))

As awful as this feels, it is soooo important for you, Tree.....I hope you can share all of this with your T. I know you can do it....I wish things would move faster for you so that you don't have to endure this awfulness. (( HUGS ))

I think you made a typo here...

Yes Pachy. I made a mistake. I wrote this post while I was trying to keep up with the Wii game my babysitee was playing and went to change it from you are not a bad person (bad English, a double negative) into you are a good person and did not get the whole previous statement removed.

Tree- You are a wonderful person. I'm so sorry if my post made you feel bad.

((((((((Tree))))))))))))) oh wow! You have really hit home with your healing work!
What Ocean shares is so valuable!!!!!

OMG - how I can relate to and totally understand what you so bravely shared!!!!!! OMG!!! That is how it was as a child - that need to just be loved and held and such - and if the adult does things, we feel like if we made them feel "good" and they gave us extra love that we were the ones "doing it"

Hon, please hear me as I am speaking from my heart on this. That is how a pedophile works. That is exactly what my dad wanted to make me feel. It is exactly what your perp wanted to make you feel. That is exactly what they do and why they do it. They know how to bait the child - that need for love - and how to do exactly what you had happen to you.

Your T is reaching out to you because he is like my T and they both know that you and I were NOT NOT NOT the ones at fault !!! I wish I could just reach through this computer and hug you !!!!!!!!!!! I didn't do anything wrong when I was little and that all happened. YOU didn't do anything wrong when you were little and all that happened!!!!

It angers me to my core that pedophiles hurt children in the deepest way like this. And making US - the innocent CHILD carry around this @%*#! burden of GUILT and SHAME that cuts us to our center and weights down everything we have inside!!!

My T told me something a couple of times that I hope might help you. He also survived CSA and knows what you and I are going through with our healing. I told him what you describe about those nasty feelings and such and also about how sometimes pleasure was there and that just added to the shame. T told me that our bodies were made for good enjoyment of certain things. He said that what we experienced is no different than a boy sitting on the back of the bus and getting excited from the ride. He said that does NOT mean the boy has a "thing" for big yellow busses. All it means is that his body is responding in a NORMAL and HEALTHY way.

T telling me this showed me that my response to the situation was NOT the unhealthy part. And a child responding to love and attention is NORMAL. It is NOT WRONG. It is very natural and healthy.

I hope that somehow through your tears and intense pain you can maybe hear what I want to share with you about this. I am sitting here crying for you now and thinking I just wish you could see how innocent you were.

(((((((((((((((((tree)))))))))))))))))))

dear tree, this is how a 4 year old acts. they are just delightful and want your full attention and to be loved--just as they should! this was not an invitation to abuse--this was a 4 year old acting like an adorable 4 year old. you in no way caused or manipulated others to abuse you. you just don't have that much control.

oh my gosh, ALL of your words help. it helps to know that maybe somebody believes all of that is true, even if i can't. i can't tell you how huge it is to be able to come here with this...where else could i go? it makes me have tears.

i e-mailed t. i asked him in the e-mail "how do i know i won't make you do something bad?"

he e-mailed me back. this is part of what he said.

Hey Tree - here is some grace for you. You don't have to worry for me, about me. And I say this gently, "You do not need to or have to take care of me." Your job is to take care and find love of yourself for yourself. I really want you to hear this in a very gentle voice, "You are OK!" You never were the cause of any of the abuse. "You are OK." Grab hold of that and trust that because that is the truth.

this feels hard. but i'm grateful for you guys and for t. i feel like there is maybe a little speck of light i can follow to start to find my way out.

Grace is such an amazing powerful concept. Please do try to accept it, and the trust and the love. These are the things that lead to freedom and peace.

In fact, these things, with a big helping of hope, I think can so totally overwhelm the darkness that there is more than a speck of light. There is the sun.

THis road is so hard, our legacy is so sad, but it is not not not our future. I am proud of you and grateful that you are here, coming through this and have the words to express how you feel.

You will make it out. We all will.

((((((((((Tree))))))))))))

Thank you for sharing your healing words from T with us.
I am so glad that you are seeing that maybe there is that little light up there -- because it is really there!!! :-)

i like that this is a place where we can share our t's words, and it helps us and everyone who reads them.
<3 tree