Parental responsibility.....

my mother has never apologized for her abuse and neglect and if I speak of anything she will turn it around and somehow make it all MY fault.......
just to be validated would feel so....
sooooo.... real.

I'm sorry you didn't have that feeling jexa, i wonder why.... maybe if your mom didn't do the abuse and yet she is apologizing for it, maybe that makes you feel like the wrong person is apologizing?... "awkward"??...
just guessing......

fins

Good point fins, having something feel real can be painful especially if you haven't worked through it yet.

If my mother had ever apologized for her parenting (she never doubted herself), I think my reaction would have been rage, not guilt. Like, you're finally getting this? What are you going to do about it now after all these years? and there wouldn't be any way to turn the clock back and fix things, so then I would feel awkward (for not being forgiving) and yes guilty (for not feeling that the good outweighed the bad). Maybe it's best that I try to work this out by myself, now that she's gone, rather than have to deal with her about it. wow

This is insightful......

So I've been thinking about this validation from your parents and what it can do for you. I made an assumption from what I have read here over the years. People would post that they didn't get the validation that they needed and my assumption was that this validation would be helpful. After Jexa and SAWE posted I see that what I thought was most likely only an assumption. I can see how the validation can go the other way.

I also wanted to share how my first post in this thread was very cathartic. This post came from deep inside and afterwards and while writing I was able to release a little pain and tears. Once outside it is outside, yah!!

Something else that I learned while working in child protection was that teenagers who act out were/are neglected kids, so when people see these teenagers and get so angry with them think about how they got that way. And teenagers are not adults and they still have enormous needs that need to be met by parents. But now the parents have a twisted history with their children and can't see what the heck happened.

I apologize to my son, and he denies there is anything to apologize for. Believe me, there is.

It was his near brush with the law and his drug involvement that led to both of us getting into therapy after he went through drug rehab. He sends me the most loving cards, and adds his own caring words of love and gratitude. But he still struggles in life and I see my part in it. He thinks it's all his fault, and I wish I could change that for him, so it would free him from the shame and open him to the gift of therapy.

Oh no. No no no no no. What the research tells us about the genetics of addiction is that genes may load the gun, but the environment pulls the trigger. Interestingly, the genes that have been most strongly associated with addiction in humans are those that control the metabolism of the drug, or those that control side effects. Those genes that control the "reward" from the drug in humans are associated with drug use, but not as strongly.

My brother is an alcoholic. I am not. My parent's aren't. My parent's parents aren't. Go figure.

Frankly, if I had a dollar every time some one said "your parent's did the best they could" or my parent's said "we did the best we could" I would be a rich rich woman.

It just doesn't hold water with me at all.

My mother is bipolar. I had to deal with suicide attempts, hospitalizations, the self-absorption, the fact that I was killing her. Also, a lot of people think that the mania phase of bipolar is characterized by happiness, go luckyness and risk taking. Well, it can be characterized by extreme agitation, psychosis and aggression towards anyone that is around and guess who was around?

Time and time again she would be hospitalized and time and time again they sent her back to me. Doped up, calmer for a few weeks, but it was a merry go round of terror. I honestly didn't know if she was going to shoot me or herself. Nice. My father has -shall we say- impulse control issues. Rage predominated. Double nice.

"Yes, ellie, but have you ever thought of what SHE was going through?"

The fact is I witnessed EVERYTHING she went through. It is NOT the child's job the think of or take care of the parent.

As an adult I can obviously recognize, and even sympathize with the fact that they are mentally ill. The newer treatments for bipolar disorder have helped my mom quite a bit. But make no mistake about it, I carried her disorder as much as she did. I was trapped in that house as a child.

So who is responsible for all of this? I still hold a profound amount of resentment toward the doctors who time and time again sent her right back to me. I ran away a lot, but always got hauled me back to that house. No one ever asked me about anything.

But, can I hold my mother accountable? Well, yes and no. Clearly her behaviour was the source of the problem, but the bottom line it doesn't matter now. Maybe then, but not now.

This life is mine to live now. The burden I carry is my own.

I like this ^ ellie. I'm sorry that you had to go through that.....

I have six children, five are really great kids and do well in every area they come across.

They are polite well behaved and the younger four in particular are high achievers in school.

However one is and always has been hard work. He is now in prison at the age of nearly 21. Is it my fault as a parent ? Did I fail him ?

To people looking in from the outside they would say yes I did however they dont take into consideration the fact he was diagnosed with ADHD ODD OCD and failure to thrive as a child and as an adult I believe Anti Social Personality.

Its easy to judge others, best not to though.

It has taken a long time for me to actually accept that I did the best I could for him and I did not fail him. I have said sorry to him time and time again just in case it was me I have also said sorry to my older son who says I have nothing to say sorry for ! I feel my son in prison 'stole' my time so I had very little time to give to my older son. Who is to blame for that ? I dont know.

You know, Sannah, it's alright. It's really alright. The only thing I still deal with day in and day out is the terror. It's the hardest emotion for me to purge, but I'm getting there.

The good thing is, by all accounts, I am a living, breathing badass of a chic - and that helps! I'm also tough as nails.

There is a lot of confidence that comes from surviving what I did. Also, I can not tell you how grateful and respectful I have become for myself. There must be a miraculous part of me in there somewhere....

Some kids just have higher needs but those needs still need to be met.

oh, elliemay.....hugs to you!
My dad probably was dealing with undiagnosed mental illness, too when I was growing up (he has been diagnosed bipolar now, following a heart attack/surgery/med. reactions which brought really extreme mania out followed by really extreme depression.....). My brother also was diagnosed bipolar, along with ADD, ODD, plus a bunch of other revolving diagnoses while we were growing up......between him and my dad, there was tons of out of control emotion and anger in the house. My parents went with my brother to dr. appt's, yet I was never asked along....I never went. I don't think my parents got the help they needed, I don't think my brother really got all the help he needed either.......and I certainly never did. (trigger thought>>>>>!!) It's no wonder I ended up with huge depression issues, self harm, suicidal impulses......I was bearing a burden alone really, my parents couldn't help me because they couldn't help themselves. Their anger, despair, inadequate/insecure feelings and of feelings helplessness/powerlessness flooded out over us.....
I agree that there is both a genetic and an environmental component.....certainly I see the genetics in my family! But there was very definitely the environment that brought it out full force, too....
Somehow, I did survive....I thought I had understood, forgiven, overcome....but it's like now I can see much clearer the cost at which I survived - the not so good coping mechanisms I still have, the thinking patterns, the deep emotional beliefs, the core wounds. I would still have the depression tendency in my genetics, I would still have to deal with depression, I think - but I think I also see that the painful, dysfunctional environment I grew up in, the failings of my parents, greatly compounded the magnitude of what I have had to deal with. Do I blame them......oh, what is the point of carrying about blame now?! I feel very keenly what you said, ellie....this life is mine to live now; the burden is mine. I have to do the best I can to live as well as I can, change what I can change, parent as well as I can parent.....sure, I will make mistakes, I will fail at times to do the right thing, but I will not fail to love my children, to simply love as much and as deeply as I can.
What others have posted about wondering if mentally ill people should have children......I have wondered why I would be entrusted with 4 beautiful lives/souls when I feel like I am so unstable, so wounded? But the answer is, I need them - they are like my anchors to life, change, growth! I need to know that my creator is trusting me with them....I need to love them....I need to have the responsibility of caring for them, because having that responsibility is something that is like a lifeline to me, it is an awesome motivation, a powerful reason to change, to find the will to overcome my own past wounds and to learn a new pattern of thinking/living. Having children has made me so aware of my own need for help, the responsibility I have to get help for myself, so that I'm not passing down to them the same sort of wounded legacy I have.....I can change the pattern within myself so that I can help my children have healthy mental/emotional patterns.......
I don't want my children to suffer as I did.....I don't want to hurt them because I'm hurting. So, I struggle on! And I hope someday, even if they do see that it was a struggle for me or they see aspects of the struggle, they will be able to see that I have had grace, joy, victory in the struggle....
This is an emotional topic for me too.....and I got a bit carried away here!Sorry!

So it was my fault ?

When does the child become an adult and become answerable to him/herself ? You cant blame the parents for everything that goes wrong for every adult.

You become master of your own destiny at some point.

I'm not talking about fault I'm talking about trying to figure out what really happened and taking responsibility for it. So you don't think that your diagnoses had any affect on your son?

6 children don't have the "same" family or parents.
Child #1 has the youngest parents, no siblings.
Child #6 has the oldest parents, 5 siblings.
And everything in between.

I was a needy kid and that should have been noticed and helped, not punished, dismissed, shamed.

Your child was having trouble before he was an adult. Childhood sets the mold that the adult has to work with. Of course adults are responsible but everyone needs to take on their responsibility not just the child.

I wont take responsability for something I didn't do. I gave him the time he needed I joined clubs as leaders so he could actually go along to clubs I home schooled when the school system failed him. He was not 'punished' for things he couldn't help. I had support via my mum who adores him even though he certainly does not deserve to be adored the way he is now.

I took him to therapy once a week for seven years only missing appts because we was away on holiday.

I count myself as a good loving parent ask any of my children.

My BPD was used for him not againts him in that I defended him from the world. So no my diagnosis looking back did not affect him.

I lived for many years until recently believing it was all my fault but it was not. The situation was set up to fail from the start and now its time for him to become accountable for his own actions.

Pgirl, after I had my children it really helped my own growth and healing too.

Tishie, it does sound like you did everything that you could. What about his father? Every child does have 2 parents. So your son takes no responsibility? Did you try to make him responsible while growing up? Sometimes too much parenting isn't what a child needs either.

His father was and is no good so I over compensated for him and used my mum. I agree with too much parenting isnt what a child needs however with Christian he was also diagnosed with being 3 years delayed maturity which did not help with him being responsible for things of the right age group.

He is now mentally about 18 so is just starting to face up to life.

So if it was set up to fail from the start then it isn't his fault either?

So maybe it was his father who failed him then? With myself it was my mom. My dad didn't really fail me.

So you were basically a single parent with 6 kids. There isn't enough time in a day to meet all those needs, especially if one child needs more.

I wish your son luck.

Hey, you are a good sport you know. You discussed this very sensitive topic very well........

No need to argue

Not really it was just the two children I had an 8 year gap before I had my third child.

I don't blame Christian I don't actually blame anyone I just feel it was going to go wrong because of all the diagnosis's he had.

I hope that wasn't a self fulfilling prophecy? Kids live up to or down to expectations.