[dizgirl2011]

Hey guys, sorry this is long but I need advice and your opinion on this matter....

Yesterday I had a really bad session with my T (see Awful session thread for my details). She made me feel like I should be able to cope with a week between sessions...BUT What annoys me is 99% of the time I do cope alone and I go through hell sometimes and ask no one for help! And have done so for a few years because I was badly hurt by a mental health worker in the past!!

I decided last night to look up my journals to see how much I have contacted between sessions in the past year and 5 months.

I want you to tell me if it's too much contact because I really don't feel it is:

• For the first 3 months of therapy I didn't contact at all between sessions
• my first contact was an email sent later in the day after a session as I felt there was more I needed to say and stated i didnt require a reply, that we could talk about it in the next session. I also sent a text that just said - sent an email, hope thats ok. I just got an email back simply stating she received it which was fine.
• 2 months later I sent a text shortly after a session as I was very distressed, sitting in my car crying my eyes out - she didn't reply.
• later that month I sent an email - got no reply- talked about it in the session very briefly.
• didnt contact at all between sessions for the next 3 months. Then I sent a text asking for an extra session (which she had said I could do). I actually felt so bad for asking i self harmed. She told me i had no reason to feel bad about it because many people have more than 1 session a week, so why shouldnt i be allowed an extra session once in a while.
• 2 months later i asked for an extra session again after a bad session were i didnt speak much and felt i wasted my chance to talk.
• the next month i sent a text regarding something she said which came across extremely hurtful to me. I asked for an extra session but then told her to ignore the request as i didnt feel it would help. She did ring the next day to talk.
• 2 months later i sent an email, didnt ask for a reply, just wanted to get things off my chest, she just replied with a lime saying she got it.
• what i think she has the main issue was a few weeks ago after a session were i hardly spoke as i was extremely upset as all she had been doing was talking of endings, I text her twice, after a session. I worded the second text a bit badly (not rude exactly) but I was angry and needed a response. She picked it up wrong though and when she finally rang me a few hours later she was angry and I find that really hard to deal with. I cried a lot that day and was in a lot of distress. I asked for an extra session and she didnt ring back till the next day to say she didnt think the extra session was a good idea. I felt it was as I needed to clear the air, I hated the bad feeling between us which i even felt on the phone. She said she would give me the session but that i had to promise i wouldnt ask for any more!!! This really hurt as I had only ever had 2 extra sessions in the space of over a year, it felt like punishment for her not liking my texts!

I havent contacted her since in between sessions and we have recently had a break of 2 weeks and i didnt contact her at all, so I am angry at this assumption that I havent being trying to cope on my own and that i should be coping better because we are working towards the end, even though last week she told me the whole ending thing was in my head!!

I feel so angry at her for telling me its ok to do things one minute and not the next

[BlessedRhiannon]

Personally, I don't think it's too much contact. I'm very, very hesitant to contact my own T, so for me to say it's not too much, it really isn't!

It sounds like you're receiving mixed messages from your T, and I know how frustrating that can be. Maybe at your next session, you could ask her what her preferred method of between session communication is, and how frequently or for what reasons you should contact her. Maybe she doesn't like text messages...maybe she would prefer emails or phone calls.

[lastyearisblank]

I don't think that's too much contact. Something is up with her. Perhaps she has some kind of external reason why she wants to stop sessions-- like a set time limit for working together-- and at the same time feels emotionally conflicted about it. I think you are sensitive and you are picking up on it and feeling like ready to be abandoned and she is trying to guess what to do about that. The word for it is like counter-transference. She needs to tell you for absolute sure. This is not your fault, you are not calling too often that the treatment can't go on so it's not that. You have support here.

((((((((((dizgirl)))))))))

Different T's have different "rules" about contact between sessions. I used to have a LOT of contact with T between sessions, and even now, 3 1/2 years in to therapy, I am allowed to contact him as much as I need to. So, for me and my T, your list wouldn't be "too much".

I know there are other T's who don't allow ANY contact between sessions, which is just another style of therapy. If this is what your T prefers, she needs to be clear about what is and isn't okay.

It sounds like you are in a really hard spot with your T right now, and it does sound like maybe the issue is with HER...not you. Be gentle with yourself...every relationship has two people in it, and it takes both people doing their part to make the relationship work.

Lots of to you.

[dizgirl2011]

Thanks for the responses so far!

Rihannon - thank you for your thoughts

lastyearisblank - i think she is conflicted to and making me feel it as well...and blaming me for her feelings!

Tree - she always said I could contact between sessions if I needed to. But i respected that it meant "needed" to. She even offered me an email every week between sessions which i said no too as i didnt want to become dependant on them!

I feel upset because I know there are so many times I wanted to reach out to her and didnt...now im being mad feel bad for everything

[WikidPissah]

I don't think that is too much, and I am pretty much a no contact person. I think your T is not being clear and sending you mixed messages. You have every right to be upset, I would be too. I hope you can talk it out and clear the air.

[Elana05]

Hi dizgirl2011,

I struggle with this too. When I first started with my T things were a bit rocky for me and about a month in I felt like I needed to call her between sessions. But my T didn't know what I wanted with these phone calls. Did I expect her to answer? Did I always need a call back? So she asked me to clarify. I took "clarify" to mean that I was being a total bother and she wasn't going to be there for me if I needed her. But what she actually meant was just that, clarify. That we needed to talk over it in the session. During the session I told her what I would like and asked if this might be possible to work out with her. We agreed that I could call when I needed to to tell her what was up and then if need be I'd ask for her to leave me a message on my voice mail. But she said she may not be able to call back until the end of the day. This has worked out so far and I'm usually glad to have a message I can replay. (I think I call her about 3-4 times a month). Even though it's hard, you may want to carefully go over what response you'd like from her. This would enable you to come to a compromise based on what you need and her schedule... I know the pain around this subject... About knowing/not knowing when it's ok to reach out and ask for help. If you have that need in your heart it is best not to ignore it. Sending many supportive thoughts your way. E

[swimmergirl]

Hi Dizgirl ,

I am impressed that you have kept a written record that long. I don't think it is too much. I agree with everyone else that you should talk with her about it. Nothing hard than ruptures with your T. Maybe print your response out and give it to her? Be sure to speak up for yourself and what you need and then you two can work it out. I think it is probably countertransference issues on her part and she is still figuring out what to tell you. Inconsistency is really tough to deal with. Good luck. (((((((hugs)))))))))

Wow, Dizgirl, I really do understand your confusion and frustration. I don't understand therapists saying, "Call if you need to" and then they fail to define NEED until you somehow cross a boundary with them. The definition of what I need will be different from what you need from what a therapist means by need. Therapists are always asking clients to say "what they need." But then if the definition is different for the therapist and the client, then there's a problem. Personally, I think a T needs to state clearly, right at the start, what a "need" is defined as: For example, "If you're feeling sui or you feel that you can't be safe, then call me. If you learn that your husband is leaving you or your mother/father/husband etc is diagnosed with cancer, call me" or "If you're feeling like you and I are out of synch and you're worried about something I said at our last session, call me or email me." If the therapist won't ever answer an email/text/phone call, then he/she needs to say so up front. Why all this confusion and hurt? I just don't get it. If you're going to work with vulnerable, attachment disordered individuals, the therapist needs to understand and deal with these issue upfront and clearly! Establishing a clear, concise and boundaried contact on out of session contact is critical for a lot of clients and no therapist should ever assume that the rules or guidelines are "understood."
Hope you're able to work this out.

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by swimmergirl

Hi Dizgirl ,

I am impressed that you have kept a written record that long. I don't think it is too much. I agree with everyone else that you should talk with her about it. Nothing hard than ruptures with your T. Maybe print your response out and give it to her? Be sure to speak up for yourself and what you need and then you two can work it out. I think it is probably countertransference issues on her part and she is still figuring out what to tell you. Inconsistency is really tough to deal with. Good luck. (((((((hugs)))))))))

Hey swimmergirl and lastyearisblank,
can you tell me why you think it's a countertransference thing? I am just asking as I am interested to know why you think this as i hadnt thought of it or seen it that way and i want to try and be as open to this issue as possible??

[*doodles*]

I don't think so at all! If she had some kind of limit on how much contact would be too much, she should have stated so in the beginning. My T says that I can call or email if I need to, I only ever email(she has a young kid so I don't want to bother her by calling...email can be answered whenever), but I do email almost every week, something 4-5 emails a week(on really rough weeks). But I ask my T if it is too much, and she always says its not.
Anyway, no I don't think its too much, and if a few texts or emails once in a while was going to be problematic for her, I feel like she should have said so from the start.

[Flooded]

I don't think it's too much contact and like others, I'm very impressed you've recorded all that!
What I'm not impressed about it the mixed messages your T is giving you. Reading your post gave me the impression she needed you to be her T!

I would be asking her to clarify the contact rules for you. Write it down too.

[WePow]

It feels like you are in too much pain over this. Some Ts have tighter rules than others. That is fine. But it wouldn't be something I could deal with... esp not her response to your needs. Healing should be... well.... healing !!

[SpiritRunner]

Does not seem like too much to me either. The countertransference could be an issue with an emotion that perhaps your angry sort of text drew out of her, where she reacted more personally and over-reacted perhaps......just a possibility.

[lastyearisblank]

For the countertransference thing, I didn't mean anything specific. I just meant that I've never heard of any T who just sort of terminates and un-terminates their patient, and I would be curious to know if there is ANY rationale for doing that...

[dizgirl2011]

Wikidpissah – Thank you for understanding, I’m glad you feel I am getting mixed messages, I know it’s not just me.

Elana05 – you are right that I need clarity and I think it’s great you were able to work it out with your therapist. I think my problem is, I ask her to clarify, she does and then still goes back on her word and when I pull her up on it she talks her way out of it and I’m left utter confused …or maybe I am just stupid.

Jaybird- I hope we work it out too. I agree with you when you say “why all this hurt and confusion?” I wish I knew L

Doodle – the thing is she always encouraged me to contact her when I needed her, she was the one told me it was ok to have extra sessions etc but now it feels like shes beating me up with the rules she set in the first place

Flooded – I am glad people understand the mixed messages I am getting. She says extra contact between sessions shouldn’t be needed now that we are working towards an ending but she cant even make her mind up on that.

Wepow – I am in a lot of pain over this, yesterday I found it almost impossible to stop crying. The problem is, is that the issue involves her yet I cannot even contact her to talk it through because she sees that as a problem – that I shouldn’t be worried about what she thinks – but its not about that either – my head feels so messed up over it all. I try so hard to do the right thing and I feel I am still wrong!

Poetgirl – I agree I think she took the texts too personally. When I said it felt like she was punishing me by removing the option of extra sessions all of a sudden, she said why would I do that and I said “because you didn’t like the texts” she said “that would be me taking it personally and I didn’t” – I even said to her – I cant win!!!

Lastyearisblank – she doesn’t fully terminate but she will talk about ending and make me feel so unsafe, always dangling the ending over me, then she might be fine for a while, not mention it and I think maybe I am safe, and then she starts it again.Whats worse is when I mention how it makes me feel she says that its me, not her saying things about ending which isn’t true!

I guess that the other thing that confuses me, Dizgirl, is that in my opinion, it's the client's decision when it's time to begin termination. I have no problem with a T broaching the subject if he/she thinks that's it's time to "talk" about the subject, but to say that it's time to begin termination is NOT the therapist's decision. It's the client who decides, with the input and support of his/her therapist, if termination is the next obtainable goal. If a therapist pushes termination on a client before he/she is ready, then there's a major problem. Dealing with termination issues can take months. A therapist who brings up beginning the termination process and then just charges ahead to this conclusion is really not doing what is expected in regard to "good enough" therapy. I sure hope your therapist slooooows down and begins to address some of these issues, Dizgirl. No one wants to be rushed when it come to her/his psyche <G>.

I dont think its too much at ALL. It all sounds appropriate.
Your T is the one with the problem here, it sounds like.
I actually looked up to see where you are from to see if you possibly had my old therapist! By the way you describe your T and the way she is, it sounds like you're describing my old T. I know its really hard to deal with.
I am really sorry its so difficult. Is there some possibility of changing therapists so you can find someone who is better for you and can give you what you need better?

[PTSDlovemycats]

I don't think that is too much contact at all. I usually talk with my T through text pretty much every day. Mind you she does have fairly loose boundaries with me...

[granite1]

i dont think it was much at all.i would ask her why and why she is pushing termination so hard.

[WePow]

Originally Posted by dizgirl2011

Wepow – I am in a lot of pain over this, yesterday I found it almost impossible to stop crying. The problem is, is that the issue involves her yet I cannot even contact her to talk it through because she sees that as a problem – that I shouldn’t be worried about what she thinks – but its not about that either – my head feels so messed up over it all. I try so hard to do the right thing and I feel I am still wrong!

BIGGER HUGS to you! This feels like it is really tapping into some core pain. Uggs. It is hard to realize that sometimes people do have their own faults that can make them behave in certain ways towards us. We are not responsible for how they act. But it can certainly feel that way.

[lastyearisblank]

You feel like she's acting this way because of something YOU did? Wow, that must be enormously painful.

[dizgirl2011]

Jaybirds - I wish that it was my decison to end T, although maybe if i had the choice i never would, I duno but at the same time I need it. Most therapists here come from the premise that we come to an agreed ending but in my opinion it's when they decide its right for the client, not when the client wants to.

SarahMichelle - I am from the uk, are you? I dont really want to change as i have never had anyone very long and i am fed up of loosing people plus its so difficult to find a good T anywhere near me - even paying privately

PTSDlovemycats - My T would never allow that much contact..ive never come across anyone here that does but your very lucky to have someone so understanding and who doesn't make you feel bad for needing support

Granite - I dont know, i dont think she likes working very long term perhaps..or maybe its me.

Wepow - your right it does hit a core pain because a few years ago a support worker was removed from my care and I was treated like the dirt of the earth for things that werent even bad. Thats why i am so careful about contact between sessions and why i dont ask for help even when i need it. I feel like i can never do anything right

lastyearisblank - it is very painful because i feel like it must be me who does things wrong, thats why no one supports me for very long, no matter how hard i try.

I definitely don't feel this is too much contact. The majority of it has simply been to request to see her, so not even attempting to resolve things out of session time. I wouldn't last five minutes with your T's rules.

But then I guess the rules seem to be constantly changing, which makes it really hard. I'm so sad that you're left to look back over every single wretched contact and wonder what you did wrong. It shouldn't be like this.

I'm sorry, this probably isn't very helpful. But I wanted to say I really feel for you and I'm thinking of you

[dizgirl2011]

Originally Posted by Improving

I definitely don't feel this is too much contact. The majority of it has simply been to request to see her, so not even attempting to resolve things out of session time. I wouldn't last five minutes with your T's rules.

But then I guess the rules seem to be constantly changing, which makes it really hard. I'm so sad that you're left to look back over every single wretched contact and wonder what you did wrong. It shouldn't be like this.

I'm sorry, this probably isn't very helpful. But I wanted to say I really feel for you and I'm thinking of you

your reply was very helpful, it is comforting to feel understood *hugs*