[granite1]

hi so if any of you read my last post you would know that my first attempt at mindfulness was a disaster.but i have the most amazing friends here and in real life.and you all have given me so many amazing gifts.

i had to many fears,to many questions,no direction,and to much fear to ask the questions i needed to ask.it was a train wreck before it was even started.i wasn't there.not only that but mix in the fear that i was scared something was wrong with my T(Probably transference)and like i said it was a train wreck in the making.

tonights gift came from a quick response to an email i sent to a friend of mine who just happens to be a Buddhist and instructor.knows mindfulness and meditation well.these were the questions i sent him

so the problem is this.I am trying this mindfulness and so far i am a total failure at it.if that can truly be possible.
i am hoping you might know a thing or two about this
it is suppose to be a simple exercise
1.pick something to focus on.
not a problem, i got this down i have an abundance of stuff to focus on.
my breathing ,cat ,floor,whatever....
2.when my mind wanders, as it will,acknowledge that it has wondered,the thought ,sound or whatever the case.
i got this also,i have no problem with my mind wondering ,or knowing what it is wondering off to.
3. gently bring your mind back to what it is focusing on.
WHAT????my mind has wondered and it keeps on going.from 1 thought to the next .one noise to the next..no way back.

how do i get back ? or leave a pile of crumbs to follow so i can find my way back and not get lost.

such a simple exercise bring your mind back to what you were focusing on (not so simple at all)

any thoughts??
book recommendations??

thanks
your Scorpio friend

his first response

First of all, it sounds as if you're trying a bit too hard. You say that you "are a total failure at it," as if you want to accomplish something. We encounter a paradox when we meditate: on the one hand, we wouldn't do it if we didn't want to get something out of it or accomplishes something; on the other hand, once we engage in the practice, the desire to accomplish something seems counter-productive.

the answers i got back were amazing and i would like to share with you

his answer
1. Don't think of putting focus on something. Put your attention there but lightly. And when in doubt (so to speak!) choose the breath. Put your attention on the outbreath, each time you breathe out. Trungpa Rinpoche once said that we should 'give our allegiance to the breath.' That phrasing suggests that we don't try to exclude thoughts. If I give my allegiance to some cause, I still notice other things going on in the world. We can take a similar approach to meditation.

To me this means it is easier to apply attention to my breath other than an object, sound or action.because along with all these you also deal with the attached memories and stuff along with it.way harder to do...i was using my sitting in the chair as a focus.

another answer..

Second, what brings us back? Hmm. According to the Buddhist teachings, we have natural wakefulness, an innate capacity to wake up. If we do the practice diligently, something brings us back, but sometimes the mind wanders for a while. Don't judge that. Mind thinks. That seems like a natural process. Meditation -- well, both of my teachers have said that we would do better to translate the Sanskit term as "Familiarization." We sit in order to develop familiarity -- and friendliness -- towards our mind.

i like his way of acceptance that the mind thinks and developing familiarity and friendliness towards it
in talking to him he explained some and gave me examples that i will try to convey but probably not so good but i want to try so i can understand better.

about thoughts and meditation.your mind wonders and when needed acknowledge a thought.how to do this maybe ask Ware this thought came from.to see that it came from no place it was always there.
think of it as an ocean or ocean of thoughts.the ocean is there it comes from no place but the waves appear and they go up and then go down and dissipate but the ocean is always there.thoughts are like this going up and then dissipating.and through it all the breath is still there you are breathing in and out it is what is happening here and now and constant .as a wave the thought will rise and you will still be breathing.the thought will come down and dissipate and you will still be breathing.i can feel the breath as it enters i can be with that breath until it exists and than bring another in.

i know i didn't do a great job explaining it.easier to think than to write .but can you get some idea how i hope to tackle this problem of when my T asks me to focus on something and the thoughts (Probably bad ones)arrive .i wasn't able to let them go so maybe this is how i acknowledge them and return to my focus.

long winded I'm sorry i am just kind of excited to try this in my next session.i hope my T hasn't given up on me and mindfulness because i really am trying.
thanks for reading if you made it through

Originally Posted by granite1

think of it as an ocean or ocean of thoughts.the ocean is there it comes from no place but the waves appear and they go up and then go down and dissipate but the ocean is always there.thoughts are like this going up and then dissipating.and through it all the breath is still there you are breathing in and out it is what is happening here and now and constant .as a wave the thought will rise and you will still be breathing.the thought will come down and dissipate and you will still be breathing.i can feel the breath as it enters i can be with that breath until it exists and than bring another in.

Wow, granite, from my perspective you not only explained this really really really well, but the idea behind it is so creative and elegantly simple.

I love the ocean and as I was reading what you wrote, I was imagining myself bodysurfing in the waves, feeling the physical movement with my breath, emphasizing the basic rhythm of it all. I allowed the transient thoughts to come and go with the waves, my body grounded in the water and my breath moving in partnership with it.

I imagined some of my stray thoughts returning to the depths of the ocean, providing food for the fishes. Others finding their way to shore, broken down by the foaming of the waves hitting the sand.

Thank you so much for posting this. I have been working (tee hee) on mindfulness lately and this was really helpful to me.

Anne

[skysblue]

Granite - I'm so glad you have a friend who could explain this to you in a way that will make you feel better. To be able to NOT judge our efforts is a huge step for all of us. And so often when we judge we will judge ourselves poorly. I know I am guilty of that. So any effort we make towards something will always feel like failure because our goals are very high. So even the progress we make will feel like failure because we have not 'completed' our goal. We don't see those small steps as success but only as a failing.

One of my teachers once taught that it's only our 'effort' that counts, not the results. Simply by having the will to try is a success. The results, really, are out of our hands. When we believe that, we can relax and be content that we've tried. But the funny thing is - the effort will eventually lead to results. It's a question of changing a bit our expectations and focusing on the part that we can take responsibility for - our effort.

So, Granite, that you tried the exercise in mindfulness means that you WERE a success. You did not fail. Wanting to be an adept at something/anything when first learning it will be a setup for self-condemnation. Think about this carefully - really really how could anyone do that? No one, not you, not me. All we can do is try - that is all. And, again, let me repeat myself. By trying, by making the effort, by having that desire to succeed - all of that is a sign of success, not of failure.

And you're not giving up. And neither am I. We're tempted to quit; we're tempted to flee; we're tempted to throw in the towel. If we ran away, then we might say that we're failures. But even then, trying to escape just might be the process needed at that time to continue on the path of success.

So, let's make a deal. If you try (only try, not necessarily complete the exercise), I'll try to change my thoughts of what success/failure mean. When I begin to beat myself up that I'm a failure, I'll think of you and I'll see you as my coach telling me and reminding me that , no, I'm not failing because at least I'm trying.

So, thanks Granite - you have been quite an inspiration for me.

[elliemay]

This is spectacular stuff granite. It certainly appears as though you have a very wise friend there.

[granite1]

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

Wow, granite, from my perspective you not only explained this really really really well, but the idea behind it is so creative and elegantly simple.

I love the ocean and as I was reading what you wrote, I was imagining myself bodysurfing in the waves, feeling the physical movement with my breath, emphasizing the basic rhythm of it all. I allowed the transient thoughts to come and go with the waves, my body grounded in the water and my breath moving in partnership with it.

I imagined some of my stray thoughts returning to the depths of the ocean, providing food for the fishes. Others finding their way to shore, broken down by the foaming of the waves hitting the sand.

Thank you so much for posting this. I have been working (tee hee) on mindfulness lately and this was really helpful to me.

Anne

it does seem quite simple doesn't it? in fact so darn amazingly simple.i find it completely cool how this man is so able to do this for me. this idea works for me on a very basic level and that is all i need right now.pay attention to the breath and notice the thoughts if i must as they rise like a wave and dissipate as well as a wave and all during still paying attention to the breath.simple but a beginning

unfortunately my friend also said that although he is an instructor he would recommend i consider him as an unofficial adviser and a good friend and should find a personal meditation instructor i i want to pursue this.he said he would help me find one

[granite1]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Granite - I'm so glad you have a friend who could explain this to you in a way that will make you feel better. To be able to NOT judge our efforts is a huge step for all of us. And so often when we judge we will judge ourselves poorly. I know I am guilty of that. So any effort we make toward something will always feel like failure because our goals are very high. So even the progress we make will feel like failure because we have not 'completed' our goal. We don't see those small steps as success but only as a failing.

One of my teachers once taught that it's only our 'effort' that counts, not the results. Simply by having the will to try is a success. The results, really, are out of our hands. When we believe that, we can relax and be content that we've tried. But the funny thing is - the effort will eventually lead to results. It's a question of changing a bit our expectations and focusing on the part that we can take responsibility for - our effort.

So, Granite, that you tried the exercise in mindfulness means that you WERE a success. You did not fail. Wanting to be an adept at something/anything when first learning it will be a setup for self-condemnation. Think about this carefully - really really how could anyone do that? No one, not you, not me. All we can do is try - that is all. And, again, let me repeat myself. By trying, by making the effort, by having that desire to succeed - all of that is a sign of success, not of failure.

And you're not giving up. And neither am I. We're tempted to quit; we're tempted to flee; we're tempted to throw in the towel. If we ran away, then we might say that we're failures. But even then, trying to escape just might be the process needed at that time to continue on the path of success.

So, let's make a deal. If you try (only try, not necessarily complete the exercise), I'll try to change my thoughts of what success/failure mean. When I begin to beat myself up that I'm a failure, I'll think of you and I'll see you as my coach telling me and reminding me that , no, I'm not failing because at least I'm trying.

So, thanks Granite - you have been quite an inspiration for me.

thanks skyblue,you also did not let me feel like a failure.i do think i went in to this with expectations and was setting myself up to fail.i now truly see your point .and no matter how much i wanted it to be a failure it could not be .i tried and am willing to try again with a greater knowledge.

when you say teacher do you mean a meditation instructor ? just wondering.my friend suggests i try getting a personal meditation instructor if i am truly interested in pursuing this on a deeper level

[granite1]

Originally Posted by elliemay

This is spectacular stuff granite. It certainly appears as though you have a very wise friend there.

it sure does and i intend to use him accordingly and not let his words go to waste

[rainbow8]

granite!!!! Thank you tons for posting what you did from your friend!!! You know I love the ocean so it's great for me. My T has been trying to get me to focus on my breathing for months now. We don't do it each session, but when we do, I have trouble. Your friend's explanation helps because I, too, have a problem with all the thoughts that get in the way!

You don't have to wait for next session. Just sit down and try it! I need to do it every day, my T says, but I don't! Those of us who want to do it can post how we are doing. Just a few mintues a day is what my T says. Even 2 minutes of concentrating on your breath is good, she tells me.

She's always told me to be aware of my breath, so I agree with your friend that using your breath is the easiest method. She also says if a thought comes, name it, and then go back to paying attention to your breath. Gently bring your attention back. It's not supposed to be painful!

It takes time to learn a new skill. There's no deadline about meditation and mindfulness.

[granite1]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

granite!!!! Thank you tons for posting what you did from your friend!!! You know I love the ocean so it's great for me. My T has been trying to get me to focus on my breathing for months now. We don't do it each session, but when we do, I have trouble. Your friend's explanation helps because I, too, have a problem with all the thoughts that get in the way!

You don't have to wait for next session. Just sit down and try it! I need to do it every day, my T says, but I don't! Those of us who want to do it can post how we are doing. Just a few mintues a day is what my T says. Even 2 minutes of concentrating on your breath is good, she tells me.

She's always told me to be aware of my breath, so I agree with your friend that using your breath is the easiest method. She also says if a thought comes, name it, and then go back to paying attention to your breath. Gently bring your attention back. It's not supposed to be painful!

It takes time to learn a new skill. There's no deadline about meditation and mindfulness.

rain i am so glad his words were able to help.he would love that.he truely is a kind man .he did put me in tough with some videos his teachers have posted with some lead meditations that i tried last night and believe me it went way better in fact i fell assleep listening to one of the teachings.it was very nice and calming.i can see why my T wanted me to experiance it.i hope i can be open about what went on last monday and be able to help her see how i saw things.i just wasnt talking and wasnt ready.

[rainbow8]

I'm so glad the meditations helped you fall asleep. Are you allowed to post how to access them or was it only for you?

[granite1]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I'm so glad the meditations helped you fall asleep. Are you allowed to post how to access them or was it only for you?

i feel kind of strange giving that info because i kind of want to protect my friends and my identity but i do have some info and teachings and meditations you may like
http://www.dharma.org/ims/mr_audio.php#guided