[SeptemberMorn]

what the term is for a man that "NEEDS TO BE THE HERO"?

Also, does anyone know of any information about MANIPULATIVE WOMEN and what makes them that way??

[CedarS]

Hmm, I don't really know. The hero part, I sorta wonder if narcissism might cover it. Manipulative women, seems to me that could show up with so many different motivations, in so many different ways. Can you tell us more about what is up?

[SeptemberMorn]

Ok... it's a married couple. HE is not narcissitic by any means. Instead has a need to count for something as in being or becoming a hero, but he apparently hasn't made it yet, because he is still trying to "fix" his wife, who very well COULD be the narcissitic one, now that you mention it. She was brought up thinking that she was perfection personified and everyone owes her Everything. When she met the man, she set out to allienate him from his family. You know the case... insecurity to the point that she's jealous of everything that moves including her in-laws. Admits that she doesn't trust him out of her site or range of hearing. She uses naturally occuring as well as made up circumstances to manipulate the husband as well as the children. Uses the children for her own ends... through manipulation and lies. All the while, the husband realizes all her faults, what her father did to her, knows she peddled "it" over two towns before he met her trying to find acceptance and is now trying to "fix" her. She has managed to drive a wedge between her husband and all his family, including siblings. Did I mention that was her goal from the very beginning?

Need any more info? I'll be happy to supply it.

[SleepsWithButterFlies]

I do not think these are actual dx's or disorders per se..I think from what I have read they are learned traits...like most likely he had a controlling parent and thus he will choose women who have the same trait and she may have had a domineering parent so she seeks to control...I find that those who seek to control often have very little control on other issues in their lives say like that had SA in the past so they compensate by trying to control other and all areas of their lives..It is also possible he may use his wife as an excuse to move or put distance between him and his family. You know like a passive aggressive way to drive that wedge and make *her* the bad guy..I really doubt ANYONE who REALLY wanted to see someone could be stopped from seeing them if he is an adult and drives...IF he really wanted to see his family he would find a way either with a backbone or sneaking but he would find a way..nobody COULD keep ME from seeing someone I really wanted to see..unless I used them for that wedge...consciously or subconsciously

[JustBen]

I guess they'd call it in a "hero complex" in the old days--but I think it's good that we don't call it anything anymore. It doesn't seem like it really needs a label. It's just a difficult personal situation from what I can tell.

[SeptemberMorn]

Thanks, Sleeps. There's a lot of truth in what you say. What I really don't understand is the manipulation as a way of managing one's life. I don't understand it and I certainly couldn't begin to pull it off to save my soul!

I suppose passive/agressive behavior is a learned trait, right? It just had never occurred to me before. He is a very stubborn person so I don't know how he would have or does react now to having had a controlling parent. Before he met this woman, he seemed to be unusually healthy, mentally. "Tis a puzzlement."

Do you feel that there is any way to give support to this man?

[SeptemberMorn]

The only reason I was looking for a "label" was so that I could Google it in hopes of finding some information on it to enlighten myself. Nothing more, nothing less. I wish I could find a "label" for the woman, too! I have found several psychological sites that deal with manipulative men, but only one angry, crass site, obviously NOT psychologically, that deals with manipulative women.

[SleepsWithButterFlies]

Sept the passive aggressive can be a trait or a personality disorder and I am guessing and thats all I can do is guess that these folks you speak of have more of the traits than the disorders..As to the controlling chick and all...from what I know most people who are ..or are perceived to be controlling FEEL very out of control so her perception would be different that yours ..On the HE ...I dont know his childhood he may have been a good actor and done what was expected and nobody even knew the hidden resentment even him..This is just passing stuff to think on ...I would not know how to support him or her cause I do not know them and the whole story but if he is a grown up just making sure he knows the door is open and ditto to her and helping when ./.if./....they ask....They may be perfectly happy as they are and with the partner they have....I dunno but from what you say in your opening thread here ..I just see it as he chose someone to take the fall and put a wedge and he is fine with it so maybe nobody needs support? Has he /she asked for some?

[JustBen]

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SeptemberMorn said:I have found several psychological sites that deal with manipulative men, but only one angry, crass site, obviously NOT psychologically, that deals with manipulative women.

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I think I've seen that one myself. Terrible, nasty thing.

[kimmydawn]

Sept,

I've always referred to them as "rescuer" personalities. I don't know what the psychological term would be for it though...sorry.

I hope you keep us posted on what you find out. Good luck!

KD

[CedarS]

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Do you feel that there is any way to give support to this man?

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Maybe best support is to encourage him to get into therapy if he isn't already? And/or encourage him to read self help books on communication, relationships, setting boundaries?

Oh and KD's idea is great too, rescuer stuff good to read up on, and maybe Karpman's Drama Triangle too, that includes rescuer info.

Very cool that you care and want to learn about what is going on, offer support if you can. Is it frustrating to see what is happening?

More stuff on rescuers

[SeptemberMorn]

You know, ... yeah.... it's extremely frustrating to watch. He tells hubby how things are but doesn't do anything about it. We've suggested therapy, reading self-help books, telling him things from our own experience but he stays stuck. Only thing hubby and I have come up with is to just listen and not try to "DO" anything. It just frustrates us more. The time will come when he's had enough, that life can be better and he'll find the strength and courage to stand up for himself.

I used to be married to a man very much like his wife. It took me 12 yrs "to see the light."

My reason for posing this question, in reality, was to find info for hubby that he could present to this man and maybe hurry him on his way to recovery. Don't think it's gonna happen just yet. It just gets so old listening and watching and no action! Ah, well...

[CedarS]

Oh I've been in situations like that, it can indeed get old! They say the same things, express the same problems, complain the same way, but don't do anything. We on the outside can see the dynamics so clearly, we have our own experiences, we'd support them in making healthy choices, but although they may step up to the plate, they never actually lift the bat and hit the ball.

Sounds like what you and yours came up with as a strategy is excellent. Though definitely frustrating.

I've been on the other side too, been immersed in something that I'm sure others had clear ideas on exactly what I should do , while I continued in my rut.

I thought as I grew older I'd get more patient with other people, but I think I'm going the other way, getting impatient and cranky.