[SoupDragon]

So I was really up for a good session with T today. I had a really bad weekend but somehow pulled myself together and decided I would try really hard to be less passive in the session.

I think I was doing OK and then T started to use an example to illustrate something and the example happened to be something that was in the "safe".

I tried to tell T that this was a hard example for me to use, but T just kept pushing until I started to trigger really badly, was terrified, cold, shakey, very close to tears.

I had started to trust T more and now I feel really let down, that T didn't fully appreciate my difficulties, that T had some agenda I was not aware of.

I feel like I don't know T anymore, I am very angry that T hurt me and scared me, I don't know if I can go back again.

My life is so complicated right now with all sorts of people playing games with me, it felt safe with T, someone who I could trust, predict and now that has all gone.

I have written T a letter saying that I think we have done as much work together as we can. I realise that there is a danger of me acting impulsively with this, sending it and then regretting it. So I am going to sit with it for a few days.

Of course I know the "adult" thing to do is to go next week and talk to T about it. But so many people in my life manipulate me and get me to do what they want. So how do I know if I go next week and T presuades me to stay with it, that I am not just allowing myself to be manipulated, when the very best thing for me may be to quit for a while. Also I know I would find it very hard to share this with T face to face and so I would probably just passively sit there again not saying anything.

[mcl6136]

oh dear....sd. I am heading out for day but want to send you best healing thoughts. I get this in a big way. I just don't know if therapy is feeling safe enough for me to continue. I have posted elsewhere about this whole endeavor feeling like a part time job (without benefits) and it just freaks me out so much. And not being able to get along with T makes things worse than no-therapy as an alternative. I am hoping that you can get some peace, some quiet and take your time. Be kind to yourself and I will check in tomorrow! Blessings, MCL

[alwaysrejoice]

Soup-
You are doing the right thing by thinking about it before you do anything rash. Maybe tomorrow you'll have different insight. Keep us posted.

[roads]

I think sitting with the letter is the mature thing to do. If you aren't moved to mail it before your next appt, I'd say go. See how T handles it. If you begin to feel manipulated, hand T the letter & leave. Could you be comfortable with that?

[SoupDragon]

Thanks for your posts - I just feel that the whole T may be complicating my life even more right now. I know I can be stubborn - usually because I think things through properly before deciding, maybe also pride - so I know once I send that letter I will stick to my decision no matter what T may do to try to persuade me to do otherwise.

I know the party line we all tow, is to stay with it - but what if that is not always the right thing to do - what if sometimes there is a bit of us inside that really knows what is best for us and staying with it is not the best thing at a given time?

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by roadrunnerbeepbeep

I think sitting with the letter is the mature thing to do. If you aren't moved to mail it before your next appt, I'd say go. See how T handles it. If you begin to feel manipulated, hand T the letter & leave. Could you be comfortable with that?

Thanks for this suggestion. Yes maybe if I don't feel the need to email it, I could take it with me just in case T has still not snapped out of the alien mode he was in today. Actually I feel anxious just thinking about being in that room with him again and not the usual anxiousness, but really quite scared.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I know the party line we all tow, is to stay with it - but what if that is not always the right thing to do - what if sometimes there is a bit of us inside that really knows what is best for us and staying with it is not the best thing at a given time?

I don't tow that party line. I've left therapy once because I thought I was done, only to realize later ( much later) that I wasn't done. I have left once under the circumstances you are referencing, that therapy wasn't the right thing for me at that time, and I went to one T appointment a year before I started this round of therapy, but decided to not start because it wasn't the right time.

Whatever party line you want to follow, I don't think it is possible to make a decision about what to do, especially since there is something driving you from a recently negative interaction with your T, without talking about how you felt with your T. I believe that you need this "data" before you can make an informed choice about whether to stop therapy or not.

JMO,
Anne

[skysblue]

SD, how long have you been with your T? What kind of trust have you built up before this particular rupture? Although I've had ruptures with my T, in my innermost being I still trust her a lot to care and to do her best to look out for me.

If I didn't have that feeling I would find it impossible to overcome those ruptures. So, if you're really scared and there's a bit inside of you that 'knows', then maybe you're right that this T is not a good fit for you.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

I don't tow that party line. I've left therapy once because I thought I was done, only to realize later ( much later) that I wasn't done. I have left once under the circumstances you are referencing, that therapy wasn't the right thing for me at that time, and I went to one T appointment a year before I started this round of therapy, but decided to not start because it wasn't the right time.

Whatever party line you want to follow, I don't think it is possible to make a decision about what to do, especially since there is something driving you from a recently negative interaction with your T, without talking about how you felt with your T. I believe that you need this "data" before you can make an informed choice about whether to stop therapy or not.

JMO,
Anne

I am far from believing that I am fixed, but right now T just seems like the rest of the people around, playing games with me, hidden agendas - sounds paranoid I know, but I don't think I am that far removed from reality.

Of course I know that the well adjusted adult thing to do would be to talk to T about this - but I am not good at talking about things which is one of the reasons I am seeing a T - so it feels like a dead end.

Guess I am not good at conflict resolution.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by skysblue

SD, how long have you been with your T? What kind of trust have you built up before this particular rupture? Although I've had ruptures with my T, in my innermost being I still trust her a lot to care and to do her best to look out for me.

If I didn't have that feeling I would find it impossible to overcome those ruptures. So, if you're really scared and there's a bit inside of you that 'knows', then maybe you're right that this T is not a good fit for you.

I have been with T for 20 months - it has taken me a really long time to build any degree of trust, but I have felt able to be a little more open in the last few weeks. T just seemed so different today, in my letter I said it felt like he had a review session without me present and decided on some different tactics and I was left trying to work out the new rules.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Of course I know that the well adjusted adult thing to do would be to talk to T about this - but I am not good at talking about things which is one of the reasons I am seeing a T - so it feels like a dead end.

Guess I am not good at conflict resolution.

Is anybody any good at conflict resolution? Is anybody good at talking about things that they find hard to talk about? I don't really think so, but you can at least give it a shot, see where it goes. You can hand T your letter at the start of the session, or you can pick out the most important line (which sounds like what you said to sky, above) and read it or say it to him. I bet you can do it, and in doing so, you might be breaking a long standing pattern of behavior that needs to go by the wayside.

Anne

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

Is anybody any good at conflict resolution? Is anybody good at talking about things that they find hard to talk about? I don't really think so, but you can at least give it a shot, see where it goes. You can hand T your letter at the start of the session, or you can pick out the most important line (which sounds like what you said to sky, above) and read it or say it to him. I bet you can do it, and in doing so, you might be breaking a long standing pattern of behavior that needs to go by the wayside.

Anne

Thanks, I am sure I can come up with lots of "buts"....but I think we both know you are of course right in what you say. I think I just don't trust myself to make the right decision, to get hooked into a relationship (even therapeutic one) and just stay there even though it may be damaging to me and feel my opinion is not valid, that I am in the wrong and the other person is right about everything.

I think ultimately I was scared as T wasn't acting in a familiar way and I don't know why he did that to me, I thought he understood me.

Thank you for your wise words. Soup

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I had started to trust T more and now I feel really let down, that T didn't fully appreciate my difficulties, that T had some agenda I was not aware of.

I feel like I don't know T anymore, I am very angry that T hurt me and scared me, I don't know if I can go back again.

Wow, this really rings a bell with me. Something I think is similar has been happening with me, although maybe there is something different going on with you. I don't know, but the closer T gets to me (emotionally, not physically), and the more I trust him, the more wary, suspicious and sensitive I get. I'm expecting rejection and abandonment, and I'm looking for it everywhere. I just know it's there somewhere. In fact, I've started to call this the "therapy dance." He moves closer, I move away; he backs off, I get up my courage and move a little closer. Then he moves closer and I back up. Round and round we go. Gaaah! It's driving me crazy

Is it possible that because you've started to trust him more that now you're treading on dangerous ground, and your senses are really heightened to any sense of danger? It sounds like he pushed you a bit, and now you're ready to quit? I agree with others who've suggested you give it some time before you send the letter. Hugs, & hope you feel better about this tomorrow.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I think I just don't trust myself to make the right decision, to get hooked into a relationship (even therapeutic one) and just stay there even though it may be damaging to me and feel my opinion is not valid, that I am in the wrong and the other person is right about everything.

I think ultimately I was scared as T wasn't acting in a familiar way and I don't know why he did that to me, I thought he understood me.

Soup, it is so very easy for a "misunderstanding" to happen between two people in so many different ways. I think you could really make some headway on the issue of how to trust yourself if you share what you've said here with your T (and didn't you just tell someone to take in what they've written to their next appt on another thread?). This will help you make the decision about what's best for you. Don't avoid getting information that will actually help you make an informed choice. It's the perfect opportunity for you to try to deal with a conflict rather than running away. If you could write your T a letter (email) then you can address this, I just know that you can.

Anne

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

So I was really up for a good session with T today. I had a really bad weekend but somehow pulled myself together and decided I would try really hard to be less passive in the session.

I think I was doing OK and then T started to use an example to illustrate something and the example happened to be something that was in the "safe".

I tried to tell T that this was a hard example for me to use, but T just kept pushing until I started to trigger really badly, was terrified, cold, shakey, very close to tears.

I had started to trust T more and now I feel really let down, that T didn't fully appreciate my difficulties, that T had some agenda I was not aware of.

I feel like I don't know T anymore, I am very angry that T hurt me and scared me, I don't know if I can go back again.

My life is so complicated right now with all sorts of people playing games with me, it felt safe with T, someone who I could trust, predict and now that has all gone.

I have written T a letter saying that I think we have done as much work together as we can. I realise that there is a danger of me acting impulsively with this, sending it and then regretting it. So I am going to sit with it for a few days.

Of course I know the "adult" thing to do is to go next week and talk to T about it. But so many people in my life manipulate me and get me to do what they want. So how do I know if I go next week and T presuades me to stay with it, that I am not just allowing myself to be manipulated, when the very best thing for me may be to quit for a while. Also I know I would find it very hard to share this with T face to face and so I would probably just passively sit there again not saying anything.

Soup - I can so identify with this. it is where I am in many ways. what gives with these Ts. Whenever i sense she comes to the session with an agenda I end up hurt and distraught.

[stopdog]

I have never found talking to them about what they have done wrong to do any good. They get defensive, never accept responsibility and blame the client.

[BonnieJean]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I have never found talking to them about what they have done wrong to do any good. They get defensive, never accept responsibility and blame the client.

I'm going thru that right now, too! She does all those things. I can't win.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I have been with T for 20 months - it has taken me a really long time to build any degree of trust, but I have felt able to be a little more open in the last few weeks. T just seemed so different today, in my letter I said it felt like he had a review session without me present and decided on some different tactics and I was left trying to work out the new rules.

Ugh. I'm sorry you had this experience.

It sounds like your T and you missed each other in your session. Moments like that are so difficult. HARD.

I hope you are able to return to T and share your feelings and your fears!

[SoupDragon]

I thought we had an agreement that the stuff in the safe would stay there and I had control over when it was brought out - although I acknowledged it wasn't helpful for it to stay in there forever.

That isn't what happened. Did T forget, was T trying to force me to put boundaries in? It just seemed a huge change in the rules without consultation. I felt like I was being played with and not considered or heard. Like I was being punished.

And now when I am surrounded by people who do play games with me and I thought I had T to help me with this, T has joined them.

T is more articulate than me, sharper, I don't feel I can compete with that in trying to talk about this - I feel T will run circles around me, push me deeper into my hole.

[SoupDragon]

Ok, I have taken on board everyone's advice and done a lot of reflection. Running way from the situation is the preferred option, it is familiar and works in keeping me safe. But I realise that means that I will have spent 20 months and goodness knows how much money in not learning to do things differently.

So I have just sent T a brief e-mail saying how I felt the rules had changed yesterday and that I will return next week, but have prewarned T that will be to have a review session and to plan a break.

Maybe being away from T for a while will allow me to have a preiod of consolidation / reflection and decide whether this is a good point in time to start work with someone different.

Feeling pretty terrified about the prospect of going next week though.

I do really get the scaredness, both about the original thing that was triggering and about the confronting about T's behavior. I think you are incredibly brave to try to do things differently, and insightful for recognizing that this in fact is what you want to do.

What I learned in confronting my T (repeatedly) is that learning how to confront in a somewhat gentle and thoughtful way is a ticket to increased bonding and understanding-- not just with T, but with other people in my life. Don't get me wrong, I've by no means figured this out, but confrontation seems to me to be part of every healthy relationship. It's great to ask people what they meant by X rather than making assumptions about what they meant, or by what they did.

Good luck, I hope this starts a new chapter for you, brave Soup.

Anne

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Of course I know that the well adjusted adult thing to do would be to talk to T about this - but I am not good at talking about things which is one of the reasons I am seeing a T - so it feels like a dead end.

Guess I am not good at conflict resolution.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I think I just don't trust myself to make the right decision, to get hooked into a relationship (even therapeutic one) and just stay there even though it may be damaging to me and feel my opinion is not valid, that I am in the wrong and the other person is right about everything.

And this is the perfect opportunity to work on all of this ^ stuff!

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I think ultimately I was scared as T wasn't acting in a familiar way and I don't know why he did that to me, I thought he understood me.

Healthy people are more flexible then this. This is why you are in therapy so that you can get to a point where this won't bother you.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

I thought we had an agreement that the stuff in the safe would stay there and I had control over when it was brought out - although I acknowledged it wasn't helpful for it to stay in there forever.

That isn't what happened. Did T forget, was T trying to force me to put boundaries in? It just seemed a huge change in the rules without consultation. I felt like I was being played with and not considered or heard. Like I was being punished.

You can discuss this with him.

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

And now when I am surrounded by people who do play games with me and I thought I had T to help me with this, T has joined them.

T is more articulate than me, sharper, I don't feel I can compete with that in trying to talk about this - I feel T will run circles around me, push me deeper into my hole.

This is your assumption. You are projecting this onto him. This has been your experience in the past so you continue to project this experience onto others and, therefore, kind of make it so because if you see it that way it becomes that way for you.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

I do really get the scaredness, both about the original thing that was triggering and about the confronting about T's behavior. I think you are incredibly brave to try to do things differently, and insightful for recognizing that this in fact is what you want to do.

What I learned in confronting my T (repeatedly) is that learning how to confront in a somewhat gentle and thoughtful way is a ticket to increased bonding and understanding-- not just with T, but with other people in my life. Don't get me wrong, I've by no means figured this out, but confrontation seems to me to be part of every healthy relationship. It's great to ask people what they meant by X rather than making assumptions about what they meant, or by what they did.

Good luck, I hope this starts a new chapter for you, brave Soup.

Anne

Thanks - yes this does make absolute sense - but (see they can't help creeping in) - there are 6 days between then and now and my keeping me safe army are working overtime in trying to get me to retreat - so let's see if I can save a little bravery for next week.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by Sannah

And this is the perfect opportunity to work on all of this ^ stuff!


Healthy people are more flexible then this. This is why you are in therapy so that you can get to a point where this won't bother you.


You can discuss this with him.


This is your assumption. You are projecting this onto him. This has been your experience in the past so you continue to project this experience onto others and, therefore, kind of make it so because if you see it that way it becomes that way for you.

Thanks for this. Yes there is probably a lot of truth in what you write. I only feel safe if I can predict how someone will be - I think I know why that is - but have no idea of how I can change it and feel safe regardless. I think I have lost confidence in my ability to do the whole T thing. So it seems like I am against a wall either I have to talk to T about this - which will be incredibly hard if not impossible or I do have to acknowledge that I just can't do it and quit.

[Sannah]

You can change it by working through the times when it happens so that you can have a different outcome (you learn through the process and also when what you fear doesn't happen, then you have a different experience instead of all the same bad experiences).

I will support you through this!