I started to reply to a post in another thread, but then was afraid of hijacking it, so I'm starting this one.

Originally Posted by treehouse

Although we were trained to "read" other people as children, I think one of the most important things we can do as adults is to CHECK IN with the other person when we're reading things a certain way. When I felt my T "leave" in session, I checked in with him about it, and he did leave, for a second. Almost daily, I "feel" like my H is angry, and when I check in with him, he might be, but NOT AT ME...at work, at something political, at himself. Because of my history, I feel his anger and assume it's about me...and it almost NEVER is.

It's hard work to unravel what we think and feel from what's real, but until we learn to do that, we're just creating our own reality that may or may not have anything to do with the actual reality that surrounds us.

I found this post enormously helpful. I have been called an empath, and sometimes it felt like I could *feel* emotions emanating off of another person. I believe that it is based on the absolute need to read other people in an abusive situation. However, as tree said, just because I know the emotion exists (or think I know), I don't always know WHY it exists and it may not have anything to do with me. I do need to be more consist with checking on why the other person is having that emotion.

Thanks for this reminder! My question for those who do read others' emotions so closely: do you find that you have an easier time reading negative emotions than positive ones? I can read anger, fear and frustration in less than a heartbeat. I cannot always tell, however, when someone likes me, or whether a positive emotion is real or feigned. I'm ALWAYS afraid the other person is faking like me or being in a good mood. This applies in my therapeutic relationship as well as my "real" relationships.

[stopdog]

I am not particularly good at knowing or guessing at why someone is upset or happy. I can sometimes tell, but I do not usually think they are directed at me either good or bad. I find it quite irksome when others (I have a good number of friends and my partner who think they are especially empathetic - comes with the lesbian MSW thing) think they know what or why I am feeling something without consulting with me on it. While they may get the what - they are almost always wrong about the why.

stopdog, what does MSW stand for?

The rest of what you said is true for me. I'm sure my friends get sick of, "are you mad at me?" But, at least now I ask, rather than assume that someone is mad at me.

[Perna]

We all have greater or lesser non-verbal communication skills, just as we have verbal ones. They are just harder to get right!

My T and I discussed this issue once; she explained that she only works with verbal, what I tell her and what she can respond to. Yes, tone of voice, etc. get in there but if you start trying to find meaning in any particular crossing of the arms or legs (sometimes defensive) or jittery behavior (knee jiggling, toe tapping, finger twiddling, general restlessness) you come up against other possibilities that cannot be checked out very easily because most are unconscious. T's like to do a lot of reality checking, making sure they got what you said right and you can't do reality checking on an arm cross, the person might not even be aware they crossed their arms, much less know "why" and what they were thinking.

One thing I like to remember is that thinking, the head/mind, is all done in words and I am usually tangled up because of my words rather than my unconscious actions. Working with words; expanding my ability to put my feelings into words, express my thoughts to another (instead of having that stream of consciousness thing that goes on or knowing what you want to say but having it come out all jumbled :-)

My stepmother use to move her bottom jaw in front of her top jaw when she was angry. Her eyes would get "hard" and I, a kid shorter than she for quite awhile, would look up at this expression looking down at me and know I should not move a muscle or she might "snap" and hit me (or otherwise go into extreme, abrupt, scary motion). No words were spoken.

But think about the stuff one feels and then think about how helpful it can be to put it into words; my writing the paragraph above lets me literally "see" and capture what was going on. Feelings can be fleeting and, as they are about us and are our feelings, they aren't wrong, but what they might be telling us and what we decide they are telling us might be wrong. If you were doing face exercises and moved your lower jaw out in front of your upper one, I might be triggered, for example, think you were angry!

The feelings have to be put into words and the words said to check out what another is thinking, feeling, doing. Babies can get away with "different" cries to tell their mother they are wet, hungry, or need to be held but that's because they are only interacting with that one person and the person is an adult who wants to work with and understand that infants non-verbal communication. But out in the world, adult on adult, non verbal communication can be dangerous to try and read. Yes many can "generally" tell when someone's face registers anger, sadness, interest, boredom, fear, etc. but that is not very helpful in dealing with that person, other than to maybe give an opening conversational gambit ("You look like you are angry to me?").

Just reading faces "accurately" is a complicated science: http://face-and-emotion.com/dataface...escription.jsp

For me, staying as close to "myself", working with my own thoughts, feelings, and actions as I can and not assuming I know anything about others helps keep me out of conflict and on good terms with myself and those I interact with.

[ECHOES]

One thing I got from REBT (Rational Emotive Behavioral Therapy) was that I could imagine all day long, all week long, about what another is thinking and feeling, but I don't have "proof" until the other tells me, using their own words.

When I can remember this, and I usually can, accepting this helps free me from the torment of wondering and imagining - that includes "What did I do?!" and "Are they getting ready to ditch me?!" among many.

When I don't remember right away, and I get caught up in it first, at the point I do remember, I ask myself "Where is the proof?". To get the proof I either have to wait to see how things go, or I can be direct and ask the person. Perhaps even frame it with my own concern "I'm getting the feeling that you might be upset with me, but I don't know so I'm asking. Are you upset with me?".

As I'm learning in therapy, the best tension/anxiety reliever is checking things out.

Originally Posted by ECHOES

As I'm learning in therapy, the best tension/anxiety reliever is checking things out.

YES!

And from my example above, when I felt T "leave", and said something about it, my assumption was that he was thinking about his to-do list, or he was bored, or something. And when he said he DID leave, he told me it was because he was imaging for a second what it would be like to be in the situation I had described. So, I sensed him being "gone" and immediately assumed he was having negative or bored feelings...when in reality, he was empathizing. If I hadn't checked it out, I might have left with the thought of "I'm boring" instead of the true thought "T wants to know what it feels like to have my experience". Two totally different thoughts that lead to two totally different emotional reactions in me.

As for whether it's easier to read "positive" or "negative" emotions...I think I *trust* my reading of negative emotions more, because I am filtering through my own feelings about myself. So, if someone seems angry, it's easy for me to trust that. If someone seems like they love me, I think "well, THAT can't be right!". Yet another pattern I'm working hard to be able to recognize and change in therapy.

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by My kids are cool

stopdog, what does MSW stand for?

The rest of what you said is true for me. I'm sure my friends get sick of, "are you mad at me?" But, at least now I ask, rather than assume that someone is mad at me.

Master of Social Work.

[CantExplain]

I'd sometimes come away from a party and say to my wife, "I just couldn't read that situation. It must be the Aspergers." And she'd reply, "I'm not Aspergic and I couldn't read it either."

Adult humans can be very difficult to read.

It bugs me when people say they can tell what i'm feeling. Especially when my husband does it. Usually what they think is wrong.

[Aslan]

empathic people will always read emotions .
what can be difficult reading is bad people , who smile. but
underneath they are hostile and domineering.

[stopdog]

Is there a difference in empathetic and empathic?

[unaluna]

I was always being told at work that I was "obviously" angry because my face had turned red. Well, i can't see my own frickin face, and I have rather pale skin, and if I rush in the morning to get dressed, i can become red as a tomato in one minute, but i'm not mad, I do have rosacea though. But it was really not fair to be treated as if I was angry because my face turned red. I complained to HR and THEY thought I was angry. idiots. Major midwestern university my buttcheek.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by stopdog

Is there a difference in empathetic and empathic?

empathetic is not a word. people think it is, that's it's the parallel of sympathetic, but it's not.

[PreacherHeckler]

I used to wonder which form was correct and according to every dictionary I've checked, they're both words and they're used interchangeably.

[unaluna]

newfangled usage!

[PreacherHeckler]

Well yeah, that's true, Hankster. Empathic was first defined in the Oxford sometime in the early 1900's, and empathetic was added later, sometime in the '30's or '40's I think, due to popular usage.

[unaluna]

oh no! I'm older and crankier than I thought I was! but i'm glad to see YOU back again!

[Chopin99]

When I tried to tell my T I was an empath, I *think* she thought I was full of s***. She said I was reading too much into things, so now I'm just confused.

[unaluna]

well chopin as I recall you're "responsible" for this thread topic to begin with, so you have some company here!

I can tell stuff about my T, like if he is up or down or feeling jealous when I mention my crush, but as others have said, I get the best result and make the most progress when I just ask him what it's about, and try not to do a big end-zone celebration

[learning1]

I thought empath meant somebody who can read other people's minds in a supernatural way and empathetic meant sensitivity and understanding of people's feelings, body language, etc without anything supernatural involved.

[unaluna]

Um, I thought to be an empath you had to be half-human, half-Betazoid. Or maybe it's the other way around. IF you are human/Betazoid, then you could combine your Betazoid telepathic powers with human sentience (per wikipedia) and extensive knowledge of psychology (Deanna Troi had a PhD) and read people's feelings.

I miss TNG.

[PreacherHeckler]

Someone needs to invent a feelings scrambler to prevent my feelings from being read in case I run into one of these human/betazoids.

[unaluna]

Don't worry, you Ferengi are immune to them

[PreacherHeckler]

Whew, what a relief!

[Luce]

This thread kind of ties in with that discussion on emotions vs feelings. I can read emotional cues from others very easily - that is, when someone else is feeling an emotion I am very astute at picking up their non-verbal cues or signals. I notice things like the toe-tapping, increased rate of breathing, and subtle changes in facial muscle tension. I am pretty good at interpreting what kind of emotion is being experienced, and I can usually pinpoint when this change occurs in the context of the situation.
However, without checking in and hearing first hand from the other person I am as clueless as anyone else about what *feeling* they are experiencing and the exact cause of it. I can hazard a guess from the context and my own feelings and experiences, but that is all it will ever be - a guess. What I have learned from experience is that although I am sometimes right about the whats and whys of other people's feelings, I am more often wrong. Other people have a whole realm of experiences, triggers and complexities that are different to mine, and believing I *know* what they are thinking and feeling without asking them first is a bad idea.