Words

I can read the words Why beat around the bush? Why not just jump in and get to work? and imagine several different ways they are said and the several different meanings they communicate!

I find it intensely enjoyable to (think I) understand something that I never did before, just by "listening" to what others are doing, and the insights that (I think) my mind brings to my attention.

Here is an example, one which will surprise and upset some people, I think:

"Listen" to the words coming out of North Korea these days. They are perceived, apparently, by most as bombastic, arrogant, threatening, foolish. But I can see them also as expressions of hurt, insecurity, fear, all attempting to cover up awareness of those feelings and present oneself as powerful when one is feeling anything but. If you perceive that that is what is happening "behind" the words -- well, I find that extremely enjoyable. And you can start to think of ways you might act towards people such as these that might, just might, turn the situation around. You can see that verbally attacking people who are scared to death is exactly the wrong thing to do. You can see too that such people need you to be strong, not weak -- with true strength, with consistency in your reactions to them, not bombast of your own that also pretends to be "strong". To me it is a delight to be able to see through the defenses of people to what I really think is going on underneath. They become much less scary that way.

Me too! The one advantage that I see is that it forces me to slow down in how I react to other people; take more time to get my thoughts in order. (Now if only I could do it more consistently!)

Another thing -- this honest process of mutual inquiry -- that produces good feelings!

That's an interesting reponse.

My response to that so of thing is irritation softened by compassion. The poster is generally frightened of our response.

A good example is Ygrec's recent experience. He told us how he felt but omitted to tell us what the trigger was. I figured he would tell us when he was ready.

I would be loathe to assume deliberate withholding. Sometimes one does not know what is relevant when one asks a question. Sometimes one needs to ask the question then see what develops to determine if more info is needed or what other info would be useful.

I wasn't thinking of Ygrec in this instance at all. The person let people believe they were the spouse in a situation. As you both kind of say, maybe the OP "can't handle the truth!" - Jack Nicholson in A Few Good Salads. No biggie.

(((Pachy))) --

Instead of trying to answer a question/possible statement when you're not sure of the intent, ask the person to restate the question.
Like say, "When you said, "so and so and so", what did you mean?" This way you don't have to figure anything out. I learned this in therapy and when I do this, I feel a lot more grounded and in control of myself. I hope it helps you as much as it did me. Good topic

Now that makes sense. If only I can remember to do that!

I love to read and write...words are important to me.

And as I get older, and heal in therapy, I'm discovering how much of my own meaning I give to other's words. I know a lot of it was how I grew up...I was taught to lie, constantly. My parents would say one thing and act a completely different way. The world did NOT make sense. I spent my time in books as much as I could...maybe the preciseness of the authors soothed me in a house where words and meaning were seemingly unrelated.

I'm learning with T that sometimes people DO say what they mean. If T says "I didn't read your e-mail because I was away from the computer all weekend", he might mean....just that! Early in therapy, I thought "what does he MEAN? that he doesn't like me? that e-mails are a bother? that he's a busy person and I should leave him alone? that I'm too NEEDY?!?!". Now, I'm 99% sure he means simply that he didn't check his e-mail. That's it. No hidden agenda.

I had to ask a lot of questions, and experience T telling the truth over and over and over and over again to begin to trust that his words and their meaning actually matched. And that's helped a LOT in my relationships outside of therapy. I spent so many years suspecting that my H had a hidden meaning behind everything he said. I spent so many years using my words to manipulate people, because I didn't "get" that I could just say what I mean and be honest and it would be okay.

I really work to not give my own meaning to other people's words anymore...I try to recognize when I'm doing it, and just ASK, "did you mean _____?". It's an ongoing learning process for me. Life feels safer and easier when I remember to do it. I don't have to GUESS anymore....and since my guessing was so tied into the fears from my past, the world is turning out to be a much less sinister place than I thought.

Thanks for the topic, pachy

Yeah a lot of people use words incorrectly. And the other thing that annoys me is when people infer or insinuate things via their words. I got to the stage where I know when someone is inferring something but I ignore it. Not telling me and making me have to guess is very disrespectful. So now i just ignore insinuations and inferences: I feel that if it is really that important, they can tell me in WORDS. I'm not going to sit around all day long trying to decode what everyone is saying indirectly.... to do so would drive me mad!!!

Wow, tree and kazzax, I identify with both. I was still puzzled by xmas 2010, when I gave T this history of hockey coffeetable book and he just burst into tears. I knew he would like it, and he cries all the time (at least with me) but this time I felt I just like didn't understand what was going on. He said, "I scared you." I denied it, but he must have seen it on my face. I told him I just didn't feel like I was part of it. He was there and I was over here (sitting right next to him!) and he wasn't including me in, even though it was technically my book. He wasn't sharing. Now I'm wondering if my mother ever cried in anger and frustration when I asked her to read my big red storybook to me, because I realize now she wouldn't have been able to. I did not realize until fairly recently how poor her literacy was, it seemed to me she was always reading the newspaper and magazines. I don't know if it's just the reading aloud part is a struggle or what. Anyway.

That would have been an earlier dissociative experience than the Tiny Tears doll one, when I was playing with my doll, and mother and brother said, looking at me and laughing, "Look at her, she thinks it's a real baby!" and I was so humiliated that I couldn't play with her anymore like that, they just killed her. But that was also the first time I had to "rise above it", not let them see my feelings, that I knew I was smarter than they were, and that I saw myself from a distance. But this xmas with T, completely different, and it's not over yet.

I read a lot of old shrink books, like Searles and Guntrip, they had these live-in clinics in 40's and 50's, and I was like oh I wish I had been THERE, but dang I think we got our own little global village clinic going here. Some newbie said a little while ago that they joined because they see people getting better here. Is that incredible or what? And THAT'S all frickin WORDS. Well, and and and

If I address something I read between the lines, I try to first indicate that that is what I am doing. Often I forget or am not clear and get accused of mind reading

I think I too have seen, Hankster, when someone posts but seems to be deliberately withholding relevant information. Sometimes I wait and sometimes I ask the relevant question(s) if I feel something is being withheld.

I guess I don't notice feeling manipulated very often as I take it as a given that question askers are asking for their own purposes, so even if they are just trying to gauge if I would/would not accept/condemn them for any given behavior they may/may not have done that's fine with me. Questions give a little information about the asker but I think may help me more than the asker, as my answer is mine and about me and I learn a lot from my answer. (Do we have a smiley that shows one hugging one's self in self-love? LOL)