Do you experience therapy as adversarial

I basically went to get information from someone who had info I did not. It is okay with me if you all do not view it as adversarial. I suppose if I ever see the point in viewing the woman as an ally, I will do so. Right now I do not nor do have any belief doing so would help.
Adversarial doesn't bother me but I don't think you sound that way.

I've been following everything going on in this thread and I find it very interesting the different views people have. I think it somewhat goes back to how we are defining "adversarial".

I go into session with the intention of challenging most of what T says. I don't accept anything she says at face value. I expect explanations and proper responses to all my questions before I even consider whether what she says has any merit to it. I don't view T as a friend or anything as such, when it comes down to it she is a stranger. Whether this makes my approach adversarial or not I don't know and I'm not sure it even really matters. I think so long as T is making us think about stuff whether in opposition or agreement progress is being made.

Right now it is. He is pushing me to do certain things to take care of myself; if I don't do them he is clearly not happy with me. If I do these things, he lightens up and will actually ask how I'm feeling.

Honestly, if you don't think you need one, and you don't particular want to do anything with one, then I can see no benefit to you at all.

This is your game stopdog, you pick the players.

Yep. Just wondered how others saw it before I started getting questions.

Then I started asking more questions too. Like how it is beneficial to view the therapist as an ally. If you view them as an adversary you are ready to handle it when it turns that way. Realizing what danger one is playing with at least minimizes the surprise.

Absolutely. If this is going to turn in that direction, I think it would be foolish to handle it any other way. I know I wouldn't.

thanks. sometimes I wonder about myself; sometimes I wonder if I sound so determined to 'prove' my viewpoint and that it's right/more right that I sound adversarial as it were to others.

I started thinking like elliemay, too ...... you can see it how you like or want or need, stopdog, if that is the way it benefits you right now. just because a lot of us wouldn't choose to think the same way or find the same benefit in that perspective doesn't have to mean that the benefit or choice for you has to be the same.
I guess I simply wanted to understand better where you were coming from and I was intrigued by your viewpoint/you/your personality ..... and I am intrigued also by the varying definitions of adversarial (as far as T, therapy, the process, one's own reactions to T/therapy/process goes, etc). It all helps me understand myself and my T experiences better too....and maybe prepare me more should I choose to go to a 3rd T. I'll have broader perspective.
I sort of wanted to know if you would consider other perspectives too, and maybe be able to blend them into yours and allow yours to change/broaden a bit. Anyway, I'm glad to know you could make the choice to allow T to be an ally if you saw the point in it. Maybe there's not much point in it with this certain T or her style or at this time. It's your therapy, your choice.
I should have been more aware of the adversarial possibilities with my first T - but then she wasn't aware of MY adversarial potential either at first. So guess that ended up even in the end.
It was different with my 2nd T .... of course, the circumstances in general at that time were just plain odd and I had only negative expectations of therapy or Ts right then anyway, having just had an adverse experience, and being given no choice but to go to whatever T I was sent to (mental health board commitment, EPC, such lovely stuff). So we started that way and it worked out better, because actually she handled my adversarial qualities just fine, so I decided she would work as an ally ...... she challenged me and I challenged her and we sparred and debated and had sarcastic exchanges, which all worked well for me (though I sure know it wouldn't for everyone).

Sorry. I'm trying very hard to understand you, and failing.

I appreciate that. Sometimes all we can do is accept differences rather than understand.

Arrête-chien, you didn't answer the question about how you see all of us, adversaries or advocates.

I mess up my "lines" when I am performing IRL. So T is a safe, experienced, talented rehearsal partner. The lines I run with T don't "count", but it seems they do for you, even though offhand one might think I am more "attached" to my T than you are to yours, since you call yours a stranger and I call mine a sweetheart. Rather counterintuitive, no?

Some times things always seem like a battle

You seem so wise and conciliatory here.
You are polite in your disagreement, even though you disagree so often.
I don't feel you as adversarial. You're just different.

The only thing that seems to make you angry is the suggestion that you should be more gentle.

It would be a poorer world if there were no Stopdog.

I 'spose that attitude tends to fit well with being dismissive and not attached to people, right?

Ability to accept differences is a wonderful quality in many situations. Giving up on understanding and getting closer has its disadvantages too.

Some have a adversarial quality, some supportive, some understanding, some accepting without understanding, some not accepting, and so forth.

Gentle with whom?
Thank you.

i did not think that was particularly dismissive.
I am trying to picture a situation where this second thing is true. Particularly in terms of interacting with a therapist.

I don't see you as particularly adversarial here, either, stopdog. Sometimes people get heated when they disagree or sound defensive; you don't have that tone to me. I appreciate a good debate that can stay courteous, so to speak.
You do sound conciliatory to me. You stand by your point, but don't disrespect other viewpoints. You don't seem to take offense at alternate viewpoints or at not being totally understood. Good qualities, if you ask me.
I have tried to understand your viewpoint too, and put myself in your shoes (or what I imagine they're like, and what it's like to walk in them, as it were). I don't know if I understand as well as I'd like, but it's not totally incomprehensible to me.

You'll need two pairs of shoes.

Thank you. I believe most people here try to understand or accept each other here. I like debate.

It is therapy I find adversarial. Not necessarily all human interaction.

pardon?

You're not a four-legged doggy?

think I see what you mean, PH......

and I see what you mean, stopdog ...... you experience therapy as adversarial, but not necessarily the rest of your life/interactions. and just because you experience a certain interaction as adversarial, doesn't mean you yourself are ......
I don't experience therapy as adversarial, but I certainly do experience other interactions as adversarial sometimes, owing to my own adversarial sort of qualities, and I am aware I can also have that tone when I have no intention of it, as well.

Ah. I see.
Perhaps I need more coffe to wake up my brain.

this is something I experience as well. I have tried to work on it. I am still sometimes surprised when people react to me as if I was being adversarial when I did not intend to be so. As I find debate fun, I have to be careful to try and pay attention to when others do not. Sometimes I am more successful at this and sometimes I am not. Sometimes I don't care.

I am not particularly good at dealing with people who cannot tolerate any conflict or disagreement.

I am adversarial sometimes but it is not a constant state of being.

I relate to this ....
I try to take a measured tone and to sound as diplomatic as possible and not sarcastic/contrary/argumentative or whatever, but sometimes it works and sometimes not. Sometimes it matters a lot less to me than others - that can depend on the situation or the particular person and their personality.....here I most definitely do care about my tone and how it might come across, particularly since there's no body language to read, for one, and I don't wish to offend/hurt anyone. My aim is more to give as much compassion/tolerance/support as possible.

I can tolerate disagreement and I enjoy debate, but I am not a huge fan of conflict - that is, situations that turn into personal attacks or fights or something of that nature. People who are on the lookout for an offense so they can start a conflict/fight are not my favorite people...nor are people who don't know how to concede a point or tolerate being disagreed with!

Here's a session note I wrote in 2008:

I have reached a “quiet place” with my therapist. The past four years have now become clear.
I saw life as conflict, in particular as a clash of wills. I saw my therapist as an adversary. But she refused to play that role. What happened can be summed up very quickly:

Me: “I am the master; you will obey me.”
T: “No.”
Me: “OK, you win. Tell be what to do.”
T: “No.”
Me: “We’re not getting anywhere. I quit.”
T: “No.”
Me: “I am the master...”

After four years of this, I have lost the desire to fight. But since I didn’t win, lose or break off, what is left? A relationship without conflict?? Unthinkable!!! I really don’t know what to do, and it puzzles me greatly. Naturally, my first instinct is to conquer this new world and shape it to my will. But I will have to explore it first!

interesting, CE. very clear picture of "typical" male business model of competition, where the female model is purported to be cooperation. however women are more likely to assert power by excluding players, where men are better team players, once they've competed for the leadership position.

Wow. That is not what mine looks like. It is not what adversarial looks like to me.

Very interesting question! I'd have to say in terms of having 3 therapists - two for a short time, and the last one for awhile...the first two, not adversarial in the least bit. They didn't pull any punches, and told me what I needed to hear, even if I didn't like it, but I never considered our rapport adversarial. With my current T? Very adversarial indeed! I feel sometimes I can't win, but I DEFINITELY think it has to relate to personal differences rather than the therapy itself. I hope that helps?