[struggling2]

I read this from the Irvin Yalom thread and was wondering what exactly this means and how it works in therapy?

"Demonstrate your willingness to your client to enter into a deeply intimate relationship with them. “Therapists must show the way to patients by personal modeling.”

And I do not mean Im wondering if it means something sexual because thats not what im thinking. I lack non-sexual deeply intimate relationships in my life. I dont know how to allow it to happen. Im horrible at sharing that part of myself. I get uncomfortable and naturally keep things on the surface. Can T be a "stand in" for this kind of relationship to get you comfortable and teach you how to have that in "real life" I know I need help with it but I dont undersand....its kinda scary to let that happen. Im not sure what im getting at here. Just rambling.....

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by struggling2

I read this from the Irvin Yalom thread and was wondering what exactly this means and how it works in therapy?

"Demonstrate your willingness to your client to enter into a deeply intimate relationship with them. “Therapists must show the way to patients by personal modeling.”

And I do not mean Im wondering if it means something sexual because thats not what im thinking. I lack non-sexual deeply intimate relationships in my life. I dont know how to allow it to happen. Im horrible at sharing that part of myself. I get uncomfortable and naturally keep things on the surface. Can T be a "stand in" for this kind of relationship to get you comfortable and teach you how to have that in "real life" I know I need help with it but I dont undersand....its kinda scary to let that happen. Im not sure what im getting at here. Just rambling.....

Yes, one can have an emotionally intimate relationship with a therapist, and yes, it can help one have more intimate relationships in "real life." Not all Ts aim for deep relationships with their clients--it depends on their theoretical orientation. Yalom comes from the existential/humanist tradition, and my T is influenced strongly by this tradition also. We do have an emotionally intimate relationship and my T definitely "shows me the way by personal modeling." I think if you are looking for this in a therapy relationship, you have to be sure to choose a T who knows how to do it, or whose training and theoretical approach supports it. What kind of T do you have and do you think that kind of relationship is something he/she can provide?

I think somethings are better experienced then read about and besides that explaination had far to many words. Therapys best explained when words are kept to a minimum.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Yalom comes from the existential/humanist tradition, and my T is influenced strongly by this tradition also.

What is the opposite of existentialist/humanist? Is it faith-based therapy?

[growlycat]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

What is the opposite of existentialist/humanist? Is it faith-based therapy?

I think you are right--anyone know?

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

What is the opposite of existentialist/humanist? Is it faith-based therapy?

I don't know what the opposite is, but I don't think it is necessarily anything religious. I'm not really familiar with faith-based therapies, but I imagine they're different depending on what the faith is. Humanistic therapy includes client-centered therapy a la Carl Rogers (unconditional positive regard, genuineness, etc.), Gestalt, and Existential. Viktor Frankl, the Austrian psychiatrist and survivor of a WWII concentration camp, was one of the originators of Existential therapy and was quite religious, so I don't think there's anything inherently oppositional about faith and humanistic/existential therapy.

Here's one description of humanistic therapy that might help you define its opposite better. I also don't think every type of therapy has an "opposite." I've never seen that question here before!

from http://www.crchealth.com/types-of-th...istic-therapy/

humanistic therapy is based upon “a hopeful, constructive view of human beings and the individual’s substantial capacity to be self-determining.” As is also the case with gestalt and client-centered therapies, humanistic therapy focuses on the present, addressing patients’ histories in ways that promote greater understanding of how past experiences contribute to who the patient is today.

Humanistic therapy emphasizes a non-judgmental approach, with open-ended questions often employed to encourage the patient to explore his/her thoughts, emotions, and feelings.

What are the Benefits of Humanistic Therapy?
One of the primary objectives and benefits of humanistic therapy is that the process encourages a self-awareness and mindfulness that allows patients to transition from a pattern of reactionary behaviors into a healthier and more productive practice of self-aware and thoughtful actions.

During humanistic therapy sessions, patients are treated in a manner that emphasizes their innate goodness and potential. The humanistic therapist is encouraged to act in a manner consistent with the themes of unconditional positive regard, empathy, genuineness, and congruence.

[Perna]

Good little article about vulnerability in therapy and why it is so hard:

http://www.therapyinla.com/articles/article0900.html

[shipping]

completely agree with what sunrise said the first time. struggling 2, may I PM you?

[struggling2]

Originally Posted by shipping

completely agree with what sunrise said the first time. struggling 2, may I PM you?

absolutely!

[Chopin99]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

What is the opposite of existentialist/humanist? Is it faith-based therapy?

I see a T in a "faith-based" practice. What she and her colleagues strive to do is combine the well-known theories of psychotherapy (which would include existentialism/humanism) with what they call "principles of faith". I appreciate this because it is my firm belief that God gave us intellect to be utilized.

My therapist (without explicitly saying so) agrees with Yalom. She has opened herself up to be somewhat vulnerable about her own past and present problems in an attempt to show me that it is okay for me to open up. Also within our relationship, she models what a healthy relationship looks like.

My T and i have a close, intimate relationship as the basis for therapy. Very healing.

[Towanda]

So do my therapist and I. He models what a warm, caring, trusting, vulnerable and compassionate relationship between two people should be. I've seen tears in his eyes when I've shared some deep, horrifying story from my past. He has used self-disclosure many times to let me know that I'm not alone in my struggles. This relationship is a model for what I never had growing up, and as SarahMichele said, it is very healing.

[struggling2]

thats great, sarah michelle & towanda....that sounds awesome. so do you use that relationship as a guide and slowly learn how to have that in the real world and "wean yourself off" of T and try to have those relationships in real life or is T always there?

[struggling2]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Yes, one can have an emotionally intimate relationship with a therapist, and yes, it can help one have more intimate relationships in "real life." Not all Ts aim for deep relationships with their clients--it depends on their theoretical orientation. Yalom comes from the existential/humanist tradition, and my T is influenced strongly by this tradition also. We do have an emotionally intimate relationship and my T definitely "shows me the way by personal modeling." I think if you are looking for this in a therapy relationship, you have to be sure to choose a T who knows how to do it, or whose training and theoretical approach supports it. What kind of T do you have and do you think that kind of relationship is something he/she can provide?

im not sure what t's theoretical approach is per say but I think its possible...its more the issue of me allowing it to happen. stupid vulnerability fears

[CantExplain]

Humanistic therapy is based upon “a hopeful, constructive view of human beings and the individual’s substantial capacity to be self-determining.”

...

During humanistic therapy sessions, patients are treated in a manner that emphasizes their innate goodness and potential.

So a non-humanistic therapy would begin with the premise that the patient is a sinner and cannot be saved by human effort alone.

PS:

Isn't that the approach used by Alcoholics Anonymous?

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by struggling2

im not sure what t's theoretical approach is per say but I think its possible...its more the issue of me allowing it to happen. stupid vulnerability fears

It's good to know at least it may be a possibility. I hear ya on the vulnerability issue. Maybe with time you will feel safe enough with your T to be more open to deepening your relationship. You have chosen to be in therapy and I think that shows an openness to the possibility. If all you wanted was surface dealings with people, would you be in therapy?

Originally Posted by CantExplain

So a non-humanistic therapy would begin with the premise that the patient is a sinner and cannot be saved by human effort alone.

I guess you could choose many aspects of descriptions of humanistic therapy and create an "opposite" from it. You could do that exercise with any type of therapy. For example, in humanistic therapy, key features are that the therapist gives unconditional positive regard and is genuine and congruent, and the therapy itself is client-centered. So in a therapy that is the opposite of humanistic, the therapist would be judgmental, disingenuous, and present a face to the client different from how he really is, and the therapy would be therapist-centered. Sounds awful! Is there name for that kind of therapy? Maybe just bad therapy? I guess we could have a thread on therapy opposites. What is the opposite of CBT? A therapy where the therapist champions irrational thought. What is the opposite of Lifespan integration therapy? One where the goal is fragmentation. Etc.

A great read for those interested in Existential/Humanistic psychology:
Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl

[Towanda]

Originally Posted by struggling2

thats great, sarah michelle & towanda....that sounds awesome. so do you use that relationship as a guide and slowly learn how to have that in the real world and "wean yourself off" of T and try to have those relationships in real life or is T always there?

Well, I am very fortunate. I have a wonderful marriage of 34 years and 3 great kids - warm supportive relationships all around. What he does model for me is the ability to be open and truthful with my feelings, to feel safe with people outside my nuclear family, to build friendships, to take chances with another human being - all things I have trouble with. And yes, I have learned slowly over the years to move T and therapy out of my focal point and into the background where it belongs. I no longer lean on him or depend on him the way I did in the beginning.

However, that being said, he is still always there for me if necessary. Crisis seldom, if ever, arise anymore, but if they do he is available for me. We are in what, I guess you could call, a maintenance phase, working towards termination.

Hope that answered your question

[amandalouise]

existentialist/humanist means as a human race we have free will in making our own choices.

the oposite of that is not having free will. someone else dictating what religion you must practice or someone dictating what your political denomination is, someone dictating what you eat, drink must partake in..

in other words the opposite of existentialist/humanist is dictatorship.

[MindExplorer]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

What is the opposite of existentialist/humanist? Is it faith-based therapy?

There are 3 major approaches in psychotherapy: psychoanalysis, humanistic, and cognitive/behavioural.

Psychoanalysis is ultimately based on Freud, but there have been many developments of his original theories over the decades. There are currently 10+ different approaches, all having developed Freud's ideas in one direction or another (ego psychology, Kleinian, Interpersonal, object relations, and others).

Humanistic psychotherapy is the one most people think of on here. It includes Rogerian (ie: client centred), Gestalt, psychodrama, transactional analysis, yalom's approach, and others.

The cognitive/behavioural approach focusses more on attitudes and beliefs (hence the term "cognitive"). It includes CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy), CAT (cognitive analytic therapy), and Rational Emotive Therapy, among others.

Transpersonal Psychology is often considered to be a 4th approach. It differs itself from the humanist approach because it includes spirituality. This is not as regards faith or any specific religion. Rather, it includes the natural spiritual hunger and striving in people. It seems to be a development of Jung's ideas. An example of this is Psychosynthesis.

[MindExplorer]

Additional to my last post, to clarify the context:

...So the sentence, "Yalom comes from the existential/humanist tradition." is not contrasting humanist with an opposite of humanist. Rather, it is saying that Yalom comes from the humanistic approach as opposed to the psychoanalytic and the cognitive/behavioural.

It's easy to miss just how massive those last two approaches in psychology and psychotherapy are and have been throughout the history of the subjects. They were the first. The humanistic approach is relatively recent and is called a "3rd force" in psychology.

In Sweden, the types of therapy you hear about most often (which is to say, not very often at all) are behavioural/CBT on the one hand and psychodynamic therapy on the other. That's among licenced therapists who are accredited by the Nat'l Board of Health. The psychodynamic school doesn't quite seem to fit into any of the models above, but I guess it's closer to the humanistic model than any of the others.