Had an interesting discussion with T today about the roles our parents are supposed to play in our life's. Talked about how the father is supposed to be the wrench that gently levers you away from the early intense mother & baby relationship. How we then unconsciously negotiate the realisation that neither parent can be our sexual partner. Unconsciously I repeat.

I said I don't know how the relationship with my step mother can described as. It was diffinately broken. She was like a Russian Doll that was smashed to smitherins. My dad was able to give me some of the nurturing I should have got from my mother & yes I realise as an adult I was sexually attracted to men who reminded me of my dad.

I then said, how wierd are we as humanbeings that we get confused with parents & sex. T said well as young children we begin to practice "flirting",with our fathers. It's what we as humanbeings do.

We talked about how when I first started therapy I talked about my sexual orientation confusion. Brought about by the breakdown of the mother/baby relationship I had and the having to rely on my father for that nuturing. I can see how all these yes with T the negotiating that fact she cannot be my sexual partner has been in going on in the unconscious too. But her being a healthy role model this time I should negotiate it better.

[kiki86]

bit freudian for me. but interesting ideas.

[BonnieJean]

What if you only grew up with one parent like me?

[learning1]

It sounds like the "roles parents are supposed to play in our lives" is based on traditional gender stereotypes- that the mother has the closer relationship at first (not, for example, that baby has two Daddies and one of them is the most intense relationship, or, for example, that Mommie is the breadwinner and Daddy stays home and bottle feeds and is the most intense relationship). However, if you're interested in learning how your experiences developing your sexual orientation may have been related to how your childhood experience differed from the norm, it's probably interesting to learn about traditional, stereotypical gender roles. I hope this doesn't lead to a feeling that traditional, rigid gender roles are better, even though life may seem easier for people who conform naturally without thinking about it.

But it sounds like you were probably talking about more than renegociating your sexual orientation as you renegociate the separation with your t. I guess that having a mother like a broken doll must cause more difficulties than just anxiety about sexual orientation.

Sexual orientation was what come up for me mostly during this discussion. But it's brought so much more now too.

[learning1]

I just reread what I wrote and I didn't mean to imply that anxiety about sexual orientation is trivial (since I said "just"). So sorry if I did that.

I didn't read it that way. I just posted about my session. I had traditional role models and we discussed it. I'm sure if I was raised with only a mother or father we would have talked about how non traditional families effect us .. People take what they will and apply their particular feelings/thoughts to it. Your apOlogy was very thoughtful but not needed. But thank you anyway.

[unaluna]

I can see where it would be more about the tasks and the timing, than about the gender of the person performing them. There would be the extreme caretaking of infancy - but if mother was lax towards daughter (as in my case, per family stories, etc) then like the experiments of monkeys raised by wire mommas, they don't know how to be mothers themselves - they lack gender identity - really the capability to nurture. Which I think researchers don't WORRY so much about in women - it's a social problem if men aren't MANLY, but nobody cares if some women aren't womanly.

[WikidPissah]

********

Originally Posted by hankster

I can see where it would be more about the tasks and the timing, than about the gender of the person performing them. There would be the extreme caretaking of infancy - but if mother was lax towards daughter (as in my case, per family stories, etc) then like the experiments of monkeys raised by wire mommas, they don't know how to be mothers themselves - they lack gender identity - really the capability to nurture. Which I think researchers don't WORRY so much about in women - it's a social problem if men aren't MANLY, but nobody cares if some women aren't womanly.

Sorry? Are you replying to me?

Originally Posted by WikidPissah

still kind of cloudy outside...not a bright clear beach day at all. I wish it would brighten up, H and I were going to hit the organic farm, but not going to chance the roads unless it's sunny.

(on bright sunny days tourists are at the beach, on cloudy hazy days they are on the roads)

Huh? .

[WikidPissah]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

Huh? .

omg...I teased Echoes about this same thing the other day. That was a post for a different thread, I don't know how it ended up here.

YIKES...wiki is loosing it.

[WikidPissah]

seriously, I think that was a PC fail. I barely looked at this thread (first post was a trigger for me) so I don't know how I could have accidentally posted on it.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by earthmamma

Sorry? Are you replying to me?

um... I'm very interested in this topic. I thought I was. or just contributing my thoughts. problem?

Originally Posted by hankster

um... I'm very interested in this topic. I thought I was. or just contributing my thoughts. problem?

Problem? No lol I just wasn't quite getting your post. I read it but I can't seem to take it in. I guess it's because you mentioned about how it's "unpopular" to talk or think about women who are not warm and caring. When that's exactly what my post was about. Is all

Originally Posted by WikidPissah

omg...I teased Echoes about this same thing the other day. That was a post for a different thread, I don't know how it ended up here.
YIKES...wiki is loosing it.

I was so going to say are you having an echoes moment lol but thought better not incase it comes over wrong lol

[unaluna]

what I meant was, there is tons of research on male homosexuality, and like 3 articles on female gender identity issues. it's been very frustrating for me to find ANY info. your T's explanation was very helpful. it's like they just assume that every mother-daughter r/s is just great! they're both girls! what can go wrong! nothing! they're the SAME! WRONG. I'm not saying it's good that there is a stereotype of a gay male being "created" by an overbearing mother and absent father, but almost all the gender identity studies are about male gender identity. finding the female gender identity study is like searching for the eye of the needle in a haystack

[Perna]

Interesting article:

The gender-role behavior of children seems to be strongly influenced by their identification with the males and females in their lives. All children pick up characteristics from the men and women around them, incorporating these traits into their own personalities and value systems. They are also influenced by TV and sports heroes and adults in all other activities in their lives. Over time, the combined effect of these many influences may determine many of their masculine and feminine qualities. Perhaps more than any other factor, the subtleties of every child's relationship with his or her father and mother—and the attitudes of the parents toward each other and toward the child—will influence his or her gender-related behaviors.

From: http://www.healthychildren.org/Engli...-Children.aspx

Originally Posted by hankster;243
5630

what I meant was, there is tons of research on male homosexuality, and like 3 articles on female gender identity issues. it's been very frustrating for me to find ANY info. your T's explanation was very helpful. it's like they just assume that every mother-daughter r/s is just great! they're both girls! what can go wrong! nothing! they're the SAME! WRONG. I'm not saying it's good that there is a stereotype of a gay male being "created" by an overbearing mother and absent father, but almost all the gender identity studies are about male gender identity. finding the female gender identity study is like searching for the eye of the needle in a haystack

Hankster, oh right yes now I understand you. Your right. It is very difficult to find female/famale studies. Thanks for clarifying that.

Perna, yes that's kinda what we were getting into in session. All very interesting and I know it was certainly igniting little triggers in me which tells me there's a whole lot of core stuff for me wrapped up in this topic. I love it when that happens. Juicy triggers lol

[Perna]

I bet there are genetic aspects too; our mothers were not there but probably affected some of what resulted as us, even if not as much as our stepmothers did?

Oh yes. I sometimes feel Im just about to grab hold of what my birth mother gave me, like it's just in touching distance. Then it's gone. I can't seem to grab it. But it's there.