Social Stigma around Psychotherapy/Counselling

I don't see it as as a social stigma so much as my own personal thing about how hard can it be to just do life and go on.

I don't see how Perna's response, although I'm quite sure she can speak for herself, is "talking" about Hankster's situation. I saw her response as all about her and what she had observed/learned at the job she worked out.

She did respond to Hank's post, which is a perfectly valid thing to do, because it was--well-- posted. But I don't read Perna's post as making any assumptions about anyone and in fact I think she was very focused on herself. It seemed to me that Hank's post was a springboard for Perna's thoughts, which posts often are. So to me this reads like a "general" post.

It would be different if someone were to spontaneously bring up Hank's firing. It was obviously a painful event and I see her working on resolving it every time she posts about it. I would think that feedback on her posts would actually be helpful to her, as she's a thoughtful person who seems to be inquisitive about herself and her "stuff", and I don't know that I've ever seen her be offended by something said in response to her. Edited to say that I'm not claiming to be an expert on Hankster's postings or anyone else's; I read selectively and probably am not even schooled well on the posts in general here.

And I just generally think that if someone posts something, then they are open to hearing what someone says back. If they're not open, then they should say what I've seen some folks do, which is "please don't criticize" or something similar. But "support" is a very personal thing and reasonable people can see it very differently. If this board were to move in any direction, I'd want it to be more open, not more closed. I think there's a lot more to be gained when people feel comfortable saying what's on their mind than when people are afraid to respond because they feel it will be seen as conflictual. But that's just me.

hey, i'm jUst sayin', why does the economy suck, because I laugh too loud at my desk but I do the work of 5 people, or because you fire me and keep those 5 quiet, obedient people who can't even do the work, but they never embarrass you in meetings or memos by blurting out ideas or questions that if you had consulted me earlier, would have saved the company mucho dinero. but their pride couldn't handle my pride, I guess, altho I try to downplay it. I can't "help" knowing my systems, having experience, etc.

Perna is right, I got myself into this bad spot, a bad career choice. my FOO thought - still thinks - I had some kind of mental defect. I did - them. it made me not know myself. I get better feedback from PC about who I am than I ever did from FOO. This one year here has been completely amazing. I am not the same person I was a year ago. I can SEE myself now, reflected in your all eyes. really never had that before, such a generous gift we give each other.

I think psychotherapy has become less and less like something to hide, at least here in NYC, but I suspect pretty much in every big city (and perhaps towns too; I don't have direct experience but I imagine that the whole, "everyone knows everyone" deal might have an impact on how open people are).

I personally don't share being in therapy a lot but I also don't hide it if the subject comes up. Just a couple of weeks ago, I was talking with my supervisor at work and we were both commenting on how difficult of a day we had. My supervisor finished the conversation saying something like, "Thank God I have therapy tonight."

For some reason, it shocked me at the moment - not that she was in therapy but that she was so open about it at work. I joked with her about the fact that I also happened to have a scheduled therapy session that same night. We left the office together and both headed to our own therapists. I thought it was kind of cool.

I didn't reread her post, but I remember she made these large generalizations/assumptions about groups of people other than just herself:

"ask how many people on these boards have been laid off/fired from jobs. They weren't fired because of any stigma against their going to therapy, or having a mental illness, they were fired because their illness, say, depression, was a disruption or caused them to miss too much work."

"a lot of us with mental health difficulties do not have that background or those [people] skills."

"That's the rub, we "fake" these things, try to look younger and don't tell people about our shortcomings and get hired and then don't work out and yet can't understand why we get fired, we take it personally when we more-or-less lied to get the job in the first place."

Hankster says Perna is correct about her (Hankster's) situation, so that's fine. But making the generalization that for everyone on this board who has been fired it was due to their illness being a disruption rather than due to stigma is potentially very invalidating. Besides, it's obviously too broad of a generalization, as we can't know the situation of many people on this board. Perna was using a circular argument- saying that there's no stigma and therefore no one was fired due to stigma.

It is interesting how people have different needs about communicating. I'm pretty comfortable with the level of openness as it is on PC I guess. I am wary of the opposite extreme of "openness," where people are not reasonably sensitive to others feelings. I don't think Perna was intentionally doing that, but I do think that making the generalizations she was making have the potential to be very invalidating to anonymous readers on PC who actually did happen to be fired due to stigma about therapy or mental illness. Similarly, if one said that no one has been fired due to racism, homophobia, etcetera, it invalidates the experience of the affected groups.

I would say that people can also be insensitive to others' feelings when they tell them not to respond to posts with their own beliefs or experiences.

This has been pretty much my experience also. I'm a very private person so don't reference my therapy to many people. When I have mentioned it, I haven't had a negative reaction from anyone. My daughter, age 18, has gone to therapy for several years. She tells me that a number of kids she knows are in therapy. She said it is almost like a cool thing to do. Like a status symbol?

***RELIGION TRIGGER***

I'm very involved in my religious community and find it very beneficial in so many wonderful ways. However, I am very disappointed with the lack of understanding surrounding mental illness. Back in the "old days" (and even now with some of the old timers), they believe that mental illness is caused by demons. Therefore, they suspect that you're dabbling around in spiritistic practices that are forbidden in the Bible, or somehow inviting the presence of wicked spirits in your life. Because of this belief, not many people were sympathetic toward those stuggling with their mental health. People reacted with fear and avoidance.

As time has gone on and more information has come out about mental illness and how it is a legitimate illness, the religious community has, for the most part, changed its thinking. Few if any people believe it's caused by demons now. More and more information is being given in our religion to show compassion and love and support to people who are depressed, etc. I find this information to be very encouraging.

However, people still seem slow to grasp that it's an illness, just as real as any physical illness. There are still some who view a person negatively if they are having problems with anxiety and depression. I was told by one of my friends in the congregation during my clinical depression to "stop wallowing in self-pity." Another person attributed it to a bad attitude and/or spiritual weakness.

I can't begin to express how much it hurt me to hear my "friends" criticize me and assume that my symptoms were a result of not trusting in God enough or willfully having a negative attitude!!! I was literally in the worst possible place in my life, and instead of my friends supporting me, and believing in my goodness, they assumed I was drifting off the spiritual path, not trusting in God, and developing a bad attitude. I pretty much struggled through 10 years of bad depression with little to no help at all from my congregation. It has taken me years to process my pain over this, even as i continue to associate with my religious community. I'm still trying to accept what happened and show forgiveness, realizing that these people were well meaning but ignorant about the situation.

I pray all the time that my religous organization will continue acquiring information about mental illness and stressing the need for support for individuals who suffer with it. And like i said, they are starting to come around. I recently heard a wonderful Bible talk on the need to show love and encouragement and support for depressed ones. But people still tend to be uncomfortable with mental illness, somewhat afraid of it, and many also approach information from counselors and therapists with suspicion because it is considered man's wisdom, not God's.

The reason I've stayed with this religion is because I truly believe that they base their teachings on the Bible and try very hard to apply what is in it. But when it comes to mental illness, they are still so far behind. I've come to realize that my mental illness, or being in therapy, isn't something i can talk about with congregation members. If i need therapy, it's up to me to get that help, while also making sure that the help i receive doesn't in some way violate Bible principles. But I don't expect congregation members to understand or support me in it. They can be wonderfully supportive with many things, but not that. It's is frustrating and at times very lonely. But I've come to realize that they just aren't equipped to deal with mental health problems in our religious organization. I expect down the road another 5-10 years, things will be different. But for now, it's something I have to deal with, with the help of my h, my therapist, and God himself.

Yes, if someone states their beliefs or experiences I think it's fine. Just not broad generalizations about minority groups that are stated as if the generalization is a fact.

Did I cross a boundary/break a rule?

Sorry if I did. Please let me know.

I definitely don't think so Peaches. I think the remarks were related to some earlier posts where ListenMore and I went back and forth. I don't think anyone meant anything about your post. I definitely didn't.