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  #26  
Old Sep 16, 2012, 09:37 PM
~EnlightenMe~'s Avatar
~EnlightenMe~ ~EnlightenMe~ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by autotelica View Post
She may be waiting to get a sign from you.

A sign of assertiveness. A sign that you are a full participant in this thing, not expecting her to take the lead all the time.

If she didn't care for you, would she have really texted you that she hopes you're well? Completely unsolicited? If she was abandoning you, why would she do this? Just to jerk you around? Seems like it would be simpler to just abandon you.

I know you're in a bad spot, but it seems to me that your frequent contact with your therapist is doing more harm than good. It's not healthy for you to focus so much on her every word (or forgotten word). They should be a source of motivation and strength, not the substance of life. You've got your therapist in a position that if she doesn't do X when and exactly the way you want it, you view it as a sign of something horrible. When really, she's going above and beyond. You see this, right? The risk of going above and beyond is that more mistakes are made than if you do the barest minimum. I don't think you want the barest minimum from her, and yet it does seems like you aren't willing to accept the trade-off that comes with having her attention. Something's got to give.

She forgot, Miswimmy1. Or maybe she thought to herself, "I'll let Miswimmy1 tell me if she wants to talk. I'll check in with her, but I won't assume she wants to talk. I'll let her ask for it."

If you hold every slight sign of imperfection against her, she will only continue to falter because it will start to seem like a game to her. A tiring damned-if-you-do, damned-if-you-don't game. No one is an infinite well of compassion and understanding. The natural tendency is to eventually say "enough is enough". I don't think you want this.

Text her if you want to talk to her. See what she says and then you can accuse her of not caring.

I am going to respectfully disagree with you, auto. What you are saying is intellectually sound, but the problem is that with attachment issues, the intellect is overrun by emotions. You sound like my therapist, who did say enough is enough and terminated me. Unfortunately, my intellect didn't save me from being abandoned because my soul and my attachment system were so hypervigilant for signs of abandonment, that I felt the fight, flight, or freeze response every time I sensed he was going to abandon me. I can tell you 100% that I DID NOT choose this predicament, and you and my therapist and whomever else can feel free to point the finger at me, my neediness, and my dependence, and I have NO way of proving that I was doing the best I could. I think that Mis is going through the beginning stage of TRYING to trust her therapist, and I think that everything she is thinking/feeling/and doing is okay for where she is right now. Invalidating her experience now, I know because my therapist would berate me for being needy, is going to make things worse, not better. It is going to make her be more needy, not less. In short, time and acceptance that she is dependent at this point is of the utmost importance. If her therapist takes the same stance as mine did, and villifies neediness, (which I'm sure she won't do), then there is no chance. The needy/dependent part that desperately/emotionally needs someone to care and accept and to treat it with kindness, is pushing to trust her therapist because that is what the body does, it pushes us to heal in the way that it knows how. I can't explain it, but I do know that this part needs to be accepted by another, and in time, she will integrate it into herself and it will no longer be so prominent. At that point, she will start becoming independent on her own, or maybe with some help. That is what I know judging on my experience and knowledge. Mis, I think you are doing a great job posting here! I know it is painful, and I have hope that your therapist will help you with how you feel, not make you feel bad for feeling that way.
Hugs from:
Miswimmy1
Thanks for this!
Miswimmy1

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  #27  
Old Sep 16, 2012, 09:52 PM
~EnlightenMe~'s Avatar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
Thank you, Miswimmy1. I'm really sorry that you were let down right when you took the chance of trusting someone. Feeling betrayed like that is very very painful. Not only does being let down hurt so bad, but a person can feels so naive, like Why did I ever do that?

What if you think for a minute only about how she is in your sessions? We talked about how sometimes she has been preoccupied. On the other hand, I think that she has also done some good things. Here is my question: thinking about only in sessions: what are the chances that you can trust her in session?
Bill,
This is an interesting point. I am kind of identifying with Miswimmy, and I have been through this a long time. Using my feelings as a compass, what you are saying feels impossible and I can't explain why. I suppose it's a projection, it's the desire to have a person to trust all the time, to have a person care about you not only for fifty minutes that you are paying for, but all of the time. Intellectually, I totally 'get it'. I get that he is really only there in session, (or was), but my emotions totally did not 'get it'. Miswimmy, is this the same for you? The emotional part, imo, is the part that is damaged, and trying to intellectualize that he is only there in session, he is coming back from vacation, he will/won't call, seems like a lost cause. So, how do we, as in all of us, let our therapists know and/or how do we work on our emotional side that is damaged? Especially in the middle of people who are using their intellect to try to help "fix" the situation. It just doesn't work. Anybody have any suggestions?
Thanks for this!
Bill3, Miswimmy1
  #28  
Old Sep 16, 2012, 09:56 PM
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Miswimmy1 Miswimmy1 is offline
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I'm all or nothing. I can't trust her only in certain situations. That's not trust. That is like, manipulation! U walk in, get better in there, walk out and go WTH just happened.

I don't know how to work on the hurt part. The only way I see to fix it is to give her another chance. But I don't know if I feel ok with that. I don't wanna be hurt again. U know?
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Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #29  
Old Sep 16, 2012, 10:02 PM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Quote:
She hasnt ever let me down in session. But I don't think u can trust the person only in certain situations. That isn't trust...
She has not let you down in session, but she has let you down outside of session. I'm sorry.

Do you want a new T?

If you could possibly keep her: please allow me to go back to an idea from earlier. What if your plan to maintain contact in session (when she has never let you down), but not outside of session (where she has let you down)?

If she wants you to email her every day for hw--you could do that. For example, your email could simply say "Hi, I'm here!". You would know that she will notice your email and you would know that she will not reply to it.
Thanks for this!
Miswimmy1
  #30  
Old Sep 16, 2012, 10:13 PM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Quote:
This is an interesting point. I am kind of identifying with Miswimmy, and I have been through this a long time. Using my feelings as a compass, what you are saying feels impossible and I can't explain why. I suppose it's a projection, it's the desire to have a person to trust all the time, to have a person care about you not only for fifty minutes that you are paying for, but all of the time. Intellectually, I totally 'get it'. I get that he is really only there in session, (or was), but my emotions totally did not 'get it'. Miswimmy, is this the same for you? The emotional part, imo, is the part that is damaged, and trying to intellectualize that he is only there in session, he is coming back from vacation, he will/won't call, seems like a lost cause. So, how do we, as in all of us, let our therapists know and/or how do we work on our emotional side that is damaged? Especially in the middle of people who are using their intellect to try to help "fix" the situation. It just doesn't work. Anybody have any suggestions?
My thought is this: T has proven that she can't be relied upon to make contact between sessions. Otherwise, she is okay. So maybe there is merit in having her her stop trying to do what she is not good at doing. Stop trying to do what ends up causing pain.

At the same time, some here have expressed concern that these contacts outside of session overstep boundaries and tend to foster dependence. Maybe it is not only more practical, but also healthier, to limit contact to the 3x per week sessions.
Thanks for this!
Miswimmy1
  #31  
Old Sep 16, 2012, 10:29 PM
~EnlightenMe~'s Avatar
~EnlightenMe~ ~EnlightenMe~ is offline
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Thanks, Bill.
I'll have to think about that one. Maybe her T needs to concretely define her boundaries, or better yet, the T and Mis need to work together to come to a solution.

I might start a new thread on this tomorrow named something like dependence/trust because I think that at this point they are one in the same.

MIS, you will be in my thoughts! Take care of yourself
Hugs from:
Miswimmy1
Thanks for this!
Bill3, Miswimmy1
  #32  
Old Sep 16, 2012, 10:54 PM
here today here today is offline
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Anitimatter, I've printed out the original post and your two comments before the last one, and I'm going to take it to my therapist tomorrow. She's pretty well-respected and maybe she'll be interested, maybe not. We were touching on something similar last week -- so who knows. May not help, we'll see. (I hope nobody minds that I printed the stuff out, rather than trying to get her to look online.)
Thanks for this!
Miswimmy1
  #33  
Old Sep 16, 2012, 11:03 PM
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Miswimmy1 Miswimmy1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill3 View Post
She has not let you down in session, but she has let you down outside of session. I'm sorry.

Do you want a new T?

If you could possibly keep her: please allow me to go back to an idea from earlier. What if your plan to maintain contact in session (when she has never let you down), but not outside of session (where she has let you down)?

If she wants you to email her every day for hw--you could do that. For example, your email could simply say "Hi, I'm here!". You would know that she will notice your email and you would know that she will not reply to it.
Tried that. She said she wants more. She wants feedback as to how the exposure is working...
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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass. It's about learning to dance in the rain.
Thanks for this!
Bill3
  #34  
Old Sep 16, 2012, 11:16 PM
Bill3 Bill3 is offline
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Quote:
Tried that. She said she wants more. She wants feedback as to how the exposure is working...
Does she want actual online conversations? For exposure therapy, she wants to email back and forth with you?

If she doesn't actually want to email back and forth, you could email her what she wants and as much as she wants (and you are willing to provide)--without her ever writing back (your messages could be discussed in session). Send her messages about USA Swimming! (Two of my kids were Y swimmers).

Keep hanging in there, Mis! I admire how you are steadily talking about and working on these difficulties.
Thanks for this!
Miswimmy1
  #35  
Old Sep 20, 2012, 07:29 PM
~EnlightenMe~'s Avatar
~EnlightenMe~ ~EnlightenMe~ is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by here today View Post
Anitimatter, I've printed out the original post and your two comments before the last one, and I'm going to take it to my therapist tomorrow. She's pretty well-respected and maybe she'll be interested, maybe not. We were touching on something similar last week -- so who knows. May not help, we'll see. (I hope nobody minds that I printed the stuff out, rather than trying to get her to look online.)

HereToday,
I just saw this post, I apologize for not responding sooner. Knock yourself out, not sure why you chose to print my posts when I'm not the OP, did they strike a chord? Just wondering. What did your well-respected therapist say? I can't wait to hear.
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