Are Ts supposed to tell you how bad you make them feel?

In the last few months of my 4 year therapeutic relationship with my T, he started telling me about negative feelings he was having toward me. Here are some examples . . .

He told me that he felt under a lot of pressure when I emailed him, because he knew I'd be waiting for a response which he couldn't always give soon after he received my emails. (A couple of times I sent an email asking if he had received an email I'd sent as I hadn't received a reply. I can't remember how many days I waited before I sent the second ones, but I didn't expect a reply straight away.)

Several times he told me he felt frustrated with me. (I can't remember the details.)

He misinterpreted an email I sent to him and told me that it "got his back up".

He once told me in an annoyed manner, while he was speaking to me in a particular session that he felt like he was the client, rather than the therapist.

In our last session (which neither of us knew would be my last), he said he felt like he was "crawling his way back up", once again in an annoyed manner, while we were discussing the reply he sent to the email that he misinterpreted.

During this last session he could see that I wasn't feeling very happy and asked me why. When I told him that one of the reasons was because he was obviously angry while talking about the email he misinterpreted, he became angry again and literally threw his hands up in the air.

There were other instances when he had obviously negative reactions to things I said, some to do with him and others not.

Are Ts supposed to tell their clients when they are experiencing these negative feelings toward them? Is there a therapeutic reason for a T to do so? By the time I terminated therapy with him, I felt like I'd been a really "bad" client for making my T feel so negative. It felt like a double whammy as I had become very attached to him.

Hi there

Sorry you're experiencing this with t. It sounds very hard.

Some therapists do this because they feel it gives the client feedback on how they are experienced by another person. This can be helpful because some clients struggle in relationships and might not be aware of how they are coming across.

However, as you know it's not always helpful because it can cause the client to feel very bad as a person. I've experienced the same with my T and was left feeling terrible and as if my t was only focussed on herself. I told my t how this left me feeling which helped but it was very hard to do. Could you be honest with your t about this?

Sometimes I wonder whether it's simply an excuse for the t to let their feelings into the room. Not saying that's the case with either yours or my t, but sometimes it turns into a power game.

It also frustrates me because ts don't seem to realise that how the client is with them isn't necessarily how they are with everyone else. Therapy is supposed to be a safe space to not have to worry about/protect the t!

I'd really recommend telling t how negative this has left you feeling. This is a sensitive issue for me and I really appreciate how horrid it is. I think therapists need to be more aware of giving disclosures like these and the impact they can have.

Sorry I just realised you have terminated with your t! Apologises I didn't see that bit. I hope this post has been helpful. I do think from what you've said that your T took the 'giving feedback' idea way too far and was inappropriate in what he said.

Hi Dreamy,

Thanks for your reply.

It has been helpful to hear that someone else has experienced this, although I'm sorry that you did.

With regards to the part of your reply that I've quoted above, I've heard that some Ts do that for the reasons you've given, but in this case, my T reacted with such raw emotion that I think (and I could be wrong) this was just him reacting to me in the way he would react to anyone he knows, client or not.

I also agree with what you've said about being different in the TR to how we are in RL. And yes, therapy is supposed to be a safe place, which it was with him, for a long time. But somewhere along the line, it was damaged and impacted negatively in a variety of ways, ending in my decision to terminate, which I really didn't want to do.

Thanks again,
Bluey

I think when Ts are invested in the relationship, it is more likely that a countertransference is also active. I'm not thinking about a T's unresolved issue, but rather the feelings that the relationship itself brings forth.

This can be good because it allows a deepening of the relationship. But it does require that the T be up to the task of managing what can be a more powerfully present relationship (either on the T's part, and/or on the client's transference part)--or be willing to seek supervision of the process.

I just think many Ts aren't up to it, and unfortunately, clients then bear the burden. I'm sorry you got caught in this.

I had this sort of relationship in therapy, but my T had a lot of experience supervising other Ts, so he was able to bring it into the room in a way that was ultimately helpful to me rather than hurtful.

Do you have a new T that you've been able to talk about this with?

I think it can be therapeutic, but only if T's are careful about the way they go about it. I've heard plenty of things about the way my T experiences me lately. T feels I'm beating up on her, she feels very critisised by me. Once she admitted she was very frustrated with me, it was only later that she admitted she'd never been so angry with a client before (because she thought I was resisting her and that made her feel like I'd physically hit her). She's said she expected more of me after four years. She basically yelled that I wasn't trying, and she rephrased that about 5 or more times in one session.

Because of what T said, I realise where I was going wrong. Often I wasn't communicating as well as I thought I was. However, the way my T said everything, all together (and there's SO much more than just those few comments), it so nearly ended a really good four year relationship. So far, three months later, things still aren't okay at all.

I think comments that let you in on the T's own reactions can be therapeutic, if they're carefully worded, if they aren't piled on all at once, and if the T can say them without getting too caught up in the emotions of it all. My T took far too much anger and frustration out on me and it's been really devastating. It sounds like your T got too caught up with his own emotions too, instead of using them to help you.

Thanks for your reply, feralkittymom

I think that our TR was a pretty solid one until those last few months. It's been 7 months since I terminated and in spite of all the anger, hurt etc that I have felt about the circumstances that lead to my decision to end therapy (my OP was just one of the reasons), I still feel "connected" to my T in some way that I can't explain. For me to feel connected to someone is pretty unusual and especially so in this case as it has been so long since I've seen my T.

I see two other mental health professionals regularly and I have often discussed what happened with my T with one of them.

Thanks again for your reply.

Bluey

Nightlight, you're going through a lot yourself at the moment - thanks for your reply. I hope that you can eventually resolve the issues with your T. I think you're a lot stronger than I am - I don't think I could hang in there as long as you have.

I totally agree. Explaining to someone that you experienced an angry reaction to something that they said or did without actually showing that anger wouldn't be so confronting, which would make it much easier to discuss the issue.

I hope things improve for you, soon.

Bluey

"He once told me in an annoyed manner, while he was speaking to me in a particular session that he felt like he was the client, rather than the therapist."

I think it was the therapist's problem and not yours. To me the above would indicate he needed to take a step back and seek his own supervisor or therapist. Poor him to feel like a client.

I've had a few different kinds of instances where the therapist told me something negative.

One was in a negative, judgmental way. The therapist was angry and hurt, but wouldn't share that with me to work it out. It was very, very hurtful, and not therapeutic (except to understand the range and variation in human behavior). I don't think this is therapeutic, or competent therapy.

One is where the therapist, with a great deal of understanding, support, and genuine concern for me, and willing to work with whatever response I have, suggested (not asserted as truth) that I might not be seeing something. I was okay with that and it was helpful.

I've been through this same thing. I think the worst was when she put words in my mouth and then got angry at me for the words. She also was angry at me for several other things, and was hurt but said it was none of my business to know why she was hurt. That was her personal stuff. It's over a year later, I've found a terrific new therapist, have some perspective on it, and I still think of her every day, and it still hurts although not sure I still suffer.

I was shocked when it happened. I'm sorry to hear it's happened to you, and several others who have posted. I'm surprised to hear it's happened to so many people.

There are times when therapists have suggested something I wasn't seeing. That was okay. I was free to respond with what was in me.

That's very different than being angry at the client. I think that's the therapist's issue. Perhaps some transference. Perhaps triggers from long ago that the therapist hasn't worked out.

I think that being able to hear negative feedback about yourself and/or how your behavior affects others is an important interpersonal skill. I think it's important because in the course of relationships, honesty and genuineness and openness requires at least a basic ability to tell others how you really feel or how they impact you, as well as allow others to tell you the same.

That doesn't mean that every time a T does this, it's therapeutic. Sometimes it is hard to figure out whether what you're hearing is upsetting because it's your issue or if it's how the message is delivered by the T. Or because it wasn't the right time or a thousand other reasons. So I guess my perspective would be that I support the idea of T (or anyone) offering negative feedback in a reasonably sensitive manner, but that it can also be bungled. The client's job, at least in part, is to figure out how you can do a better job accepting the negative feedback, while also feeling free to tell the therapist how they affected you negatively.

If I could change one thing about my H, it would be his willingness to listen to negative feedback. Over the years, I've tried being more sensitive in my wording choice, tone, timing, and not much has worked. I've also tried just not saying anything, and that definitely doesn't work for me. He's just super sensitive to anything that even smacks in the neighborhood of negative. He's a really good person and has a lot of positive qualities, but his fragility in this way is an obstacle to honest communication. At the same time, I think that I am overly critical, so I could stand to tone it down a lot of time. But I guess my bottom line to you is that I think that all of us could benefit from being able to listen and be more accepting of people telling us what we don't want to hear. Even if you dismiss it as being the other person's issue, thoughtful consideration and openminded listening is better than angry or upset dismissal.

My experience is that it was/is very easy to tell the different between a T telling me I'm X & y, said with disapproval and judgment and her own anger and pain, and a T suggesting that I'm doing X & Y. One is said in a supportive way. One is said in a distancing way. One is said to get me to stop something. THe other is said help me see more, and I am able to have my own viewpoint and the matter can be discussed. One the T does not own their own stuff. The other, T owns his own perceptions and feelings.

I have a lot of MD friends and collaborators. They always always say the best way to tell if a patient is depressed is if they feel depressed around them.

And these are physicians who *maybe* had a psych rotation in med school.

The way a therapist feels around you or in response to you can be a powerful tool they can use to help you.

However, this techniques does need to be very judiciously applied, and perhaps the best approach is not always used.

I think, however, that there is nothing in therapy that can't be resolved if both parties are willing to talk about it. Usually that involves each party doing their best to take emotion out of it while simultaneously getting to the emotional heart of it.

Sounds contradictory I know, but when both parties engage in that dialogue, then I've certainly experienced a lot of good come can out of it.

The key, of course, is both parties.

My ex t, t1 used to get mad at me every session. I thought that therapy involved the therapist getting angry but since seeing another t I realised that it wasn't and T1 had lots of her own issues. She used to give me homework and I would do it but she wouldn't ask me for it next session but one time I didn't do it because she wouldn't ask for it well she did ask and that's when it started. She said I wasn't working hard enough!
She said she didn't work with clients who didn't want to help themselves. I have used and said I had done my homework but she never asked For it, she said this was a lie. And she stopped answering my texts and when I would leave voice mails she would she wouldn't answer. I said to her we are having a communications problem and why didn't you answer my texts she said she didn't have to answer anything. She terminated me after I said therapy wasn't helping me and I feel very suicidal. I left a voicemail saying I couldn't go to our last session because I was so upset and not ready for this , she didn't even bother to reply she was always going on about boundaries it seems like she had more issues than me.

Bluey, I am sorry your T treated you like this but you must remember it is not your job to protect t or walk on eggshells around him. I think he needs to do his own therapy to know how it feels, maybe some anger management

I definitely agree that counter transference is a factor because my T has changed as time has gone on - she takes more risks with me, some which pay off and some which really don't. She's loosened up a lot and become more herself.

I react badly when someone tells me how I made them feel. I become defensive and feel criticised. Not sure if that's just me but does show me how important it is that the T is in tune with the client before making such an approach. When it's done insensitively it can spell the end of a good t relationship. When done well it could potentially be very healing. I think the t needs to be really aware that his or her own issues might be spilling over before deciding to disclose an emotional reaction to the client.

I had a T who let her own issues cloud her professialism and her countertransference ran amuck on me. Maybe this xT had the same issue. I hope you find resolution in this.

If both parties are in agreement that this is happening, then that is a good thing. If one person is hearing disapproval or the like and insists that s/he knows what the other person is communicating, that's a problem, in or out of therapy.

I don't think I've ever heard negative feedback or criticism from any of my T's. I am far more self critical than anyone could ever be of me. My T's have all attempted to promote self acceptance and greater kindness towards myself. But outside T, being self critical makes it a lot easier to hear negative stuff from the people in my life; it's as if I've had lots of practice saying way more negative things to myself, the negative messages from others can sometimes be a reprieve.

You're right. If one person is hearing disapproval and insists they know what hte other person is communicating, it's a problem. And that includes if the therapist thinks they know what the client is communicating. Further, if one person thinks it's happening and the other says "no, and I don't want to talk about it" it's a problem too. I didn't think it was appropriate to repeat my whole story in order to make my point. I'm comfortable in my assessment that my former Ts judgements were from her issues, and not mine, and that it is incredibly painful experience.

I'm glad for you that you have never heard negative feedback or criticism from any of your T's. I'm not sure how that relates to other people hearing judgement from their Ts. I don't think you meant to imply that it doesn't happen?

It depends. I usually say I don't want to talk about it when someone is being aggressive and isn't listening well to me. I expect that when I say I don't want to talk about it, for the person to stop talking about it. Doesn't mean that I might not be willing to talk about it in the future, if the other person drops what I perceive to be defensiveness and the conversation seems like it might have a shot at being productive. I can't imagine it being acceptable for a T to insist on talking about a certain topic, but I don't think it's acceptable for a client to insist either. It might be a big sign that it's time to end things with this T, and if I thought that a T was unwilling to talk about something I wanted to talk about, I would most certainly switch to someone else more open.

I'm not trying to convince you or anyone else that your T's don't give you valid or invalid negative feedback. I have learned that it's critical to healthy relationships to be willing to consider whether there is something of value in that feedback and be open to change, rather than reflexively put if off on the other person. Which is something I feel that people often do, myself included. But everyone is themselves in the best position to judge whether this is something they do, or not.

I'm glad you said you aren't trying to convince me or anyone that my T/other's T didn't give invalid negative feedback. I'm not sure I thought you were trying to convince me, but I did feel you were suspect that I was wrong and wanted me to consider - not knowing that I have been working with a new therapist for over a year and feel pretty grounded about how I'm handling things and what I've learned.

I agree it's critical to be willing to consider whether there is something of value in feedback, even negative feedback. I don't consider "You're "x" and you're "y" is feedback - at least not useful feedback - particularly if there is no specifics behind it, and it's not clear what change the T is suggesting and lots of other stuff. I also think it's healthy not to take blame and responsibility for things that aren't mine to take blame and responsibility for.