[skysblue]

Yes, of course I believe in being 'authentic', I say to my therapist. I mean, who can argue with such a beautiful term? Isn't "authentic" close to the meaning of "honesty", "realness", "purity" and all other positive wonderful attributes?

But, T, I need to explore more with you the MEANING of authenticity. Really, can you be more clear what it IS?

You see, I suspect I may be confusing the word 'authenticity' with my natural inclination towards selfishness. Everyone jumps on the bandwagon of AUTHENTICITY and geez, I wanna jump on too.

BUT, a nagging question keeps dogging me. What if I am using the idea of 'striving for my authentic self' to actually fulfill my most selfish desires?

Do I 'know' my authentic self, T, by paying attention to what 'feels good'? So, if I like the feeling, if the feeling is pleasant, is that a sign that this points me to 'authenticity'?

And, as i understand it, authenticity is the best way to live, right?

But, by using that standard, what 'feels good' may not necessarily be the way to determine authenticity, I'm wondering.

For example, if it feels good to me to eat junk food, if I groove on the barbecue potato chips instead of a salad, is that how I should determine how I should eat? It DOES feel good - the crunchy spicy sensation of chips in my mouth.

So, please, T, explain to me better WHAT exactly is my authentic self and HOW specifically to identify it.

And, if any of you guys on PC have some thoughts on this i would greatly appreciate it. I am contemplating a HUGE life change (HUGE is too small of a word to describe it) based partly on my quest to live authentically.

[unaluna]

Doesn't it ever feel good to eat salad? Or do you force yourself to eat salad all the time so you don't - can't - even appreciate it anymore? Okay, that's your metaphor.

My situation was - I was talking to some people yesterday but I felt very detached. T said today that what I was saying to them was actually very creative - so what was I thinking just before I detached? I saId - that my mother would have criticized my participation in the conversation. T said, so you "became" your mother watching you and criticizing you. I was like, yeah - I would very much like to have embodied that person. Or as you say, to be authentic.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by skysblue

For example, if it feels good to me to eat junk food, if I groove on the barbecue potato chips instead of a salad, is that how I should determine how I should eat? It DOES feel good - the crunchy spicy sensation of chips in my mouth.

Does it ever feel good to eat a salad? Does it feel good in a different way?

[skysblue]

So, Hank & Pachy - if I like junk food AND salad, both of them feel good, then it gets even more confusing.

So, it's a conflict between opposing 'feel good' scenarios. Man oh man - too tough to figure out. I have to 'measure' the feel good?

Well If we were talking about ice cream, I believe I truly love vanilla. Chocolate and other flavors are still good but if I had to pick one it would be vanilla. Now Just because my authentic self love vanilla ice cream, doesn't mean I can eat that and only that. My authentic self has to protect me and my interest so I know I must eat other things that are good for me that pale in comparison to ice cream.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by skysblue

So, Hank & Pachy - if I like junk food AND salad, both of them feel good, then it gets even more confusing.

So, it's a conflict between opposing 'feel good' scenarios. Man oh man - too tough to figure out. I have to 'measure' the feel good?

I find one kind of feel good is gooder than the other kinds.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by LolaCabanna

Well If we were talking about ice cream, I believe I truly love vanilla. Chocolate and other flavors are still good but if I had to pick one it would be vanilla. Now Just because my authentic self love vanilla ice cream, doesn't mean I can eat that and only that. My authentic self has to protect me and my interest so I know I must eat other things that are good for me that pale in comparison to ice cream.

OK - then what you're saying is that just because it feels good doesn't make right or more authentic than other things that one SHOULD do? That being authentic includes taking into account other aspects - like how do other people feel, how does society at large feel, how the body/mind will react - not only what FEELS GOOD at the moment.

So, given that there are so many aspects of our 'authentic' selves, how do we know that we're acting FROM our 'authentic' selves?

And if that question is answerable, then the next question is "SHOULD we act from our 'authentic' selves?

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

I find one kind of feel good is gooder than the other kinds.

So, one's true self is based on what 'feels gooder'? Decisions should be made from that aspect of life? Not what's right? Or who chooses what's right? Are there certain unassailable standards by how to live life besides the guidance offered by this so-called 'authentic' self?

No I don't think your authentic self has anything to do with society or other peoples feelings its more of ones natural inclinations.

Example:

Homosexuality:
1. Mainly taboo in society
2. Mainly not accepted in Religion
3. Not the norm of society

Yet, I believe that my authentic self is gay.
I have been in relationships with men and even had sexual relations with men. I didn't hate it but I prefer those things with women. So regardless of society and my families feelings, I needed to follow my authentic sexuality to achieve my ultimate happiness.

As for the body/mind I think that when something your authentic self enjoys is ultimately hurting yourself...then that needs to be addressed and corrected. You will do this by doing things that feel unnatural, for the better of you.

[unaluna]

The point is there's no "right", there are choices and trade-offs. If you choose A, you lose the opportunity for B.

[Anne2.0]

I don't have any great answers about what is authentic or what is the authentic self. For me, it's a little like p or nography-- I know it when I see it in myself, but it is elusive and fleeting to define.

For me, the most important aspect to being authentic includes (but is not limited to) being honest with people about my real feelings. Sometimes I am afraid to say something to someone -- like a friend of mine who is moving away soon-- "I will miss you, but I am happy that you are going someplace better for you." I am afraid because my feelings of potential loss might be returned-- she could say, "thanks" or she could change the subject, or she could say "I will miss you too" or "please come visit me."

Being authentic also means not agreeing to do things that I don't want to do. Now, this is juxtaposed with my responsibilities as mother, wife, friend, etc. I might not feel like making my son's lunch but I promised him I would. I might not feel like going to some b.s. social engagement with my husband but I promised I would. Better, and more authentic, to tell my husband that I don't want to go from the beginning. So I don't think being authentic means you are a free agent when it comes to other people's feelings or needs. It's no excuse to act like an @ss.

Being authentic means being who you are-- being willing to share yourself with others, yet also having boundaries and privacy. Asking people for what you'd like or what you need from them without demanding it or trying to control or manipulate them. Telling them that they are important to you and not being afraid that you won't have your affections returned. Being willing to share yourself with the people in your life rather than hiding pieces of yourself up in the trees with the squirrels. Being honest about who you are and what matters to you. Living in accordance with your beliefs and values, whether they are political, religious, social, environmental, or personal.

Those are just some of my thoughts. I wish you well on your journey.

[sittingatwatersedge]

two cents

authenticity can be...
being (or at least truly striving to be) a person who does the right thing because you know it's the right thing, even if it's not what you want, or what will benefit you.

So that at the end of your life, no remorse. You may regret you didn't have power, or travel much, or make the news, or whatever; but you won't have to look back on a life of selfishness or worse.

before someone jumps in on me - no I am not saying there is anything inherently selfish in having power or travel or making the news. of course not.

[BlessedRhiannon]

My T and I talk a lot about authenticity, because it's something I really struggle with. All my life, I've tried to be what others want me to be, to project the image I think others want to see, to say what I think others want to hear. Regardless of the cost to myself.

So, for me, I think authenticity is less about doing what feels good and more about what feels right and true and honest for yourself. It's about not wearing masks and hiding your true self from others. The thing about being authentic is that even though it might not feel good (especially if you think being yourself might cause a negative reaction in others), it feels right and for me that's a huge comfort.

It's not really about being selfish and doing what ever you want or what makes you feel good. It's more about allowing your true self to shine through in whatever way it needs to. For example - if I'm having a conversation with my mother and she says something that is in direct opposition to my true beliefs, I have a tendency to just nod and make noises of agreement, then change the subject. It preserves the peace, which has always been my role in the family. If I were to be authentic then I might tell her that I don't feel that way, and that I actually believe x. Preserving the peace feels good to me because it's safe, but it hurts me because I'm denying myself. Offering a dissenting opinion scares the crap out of me, because I'm risking disturbing the peace and being noticed, but it also feels good because I'm being true and honest with myself and others. See the difference? Quick "good" feeling by not being authentic, followed by hurt at not being true to myself vs. Quick scary or hurt feelings followed by good feelings at being true to myself.

Being authentic is so hard, especially when you've been conditioned to wear masks and be what others think you should be. I think it's worth it in the long run, though. The few times I've taken the risk, it's felt so much more right to me.

[pachyderm]

Originally Posted by skysblue

So, one's true self is based on what 'feels gooder'? Decisions should be made from that aspect of life? Not what's right? Or who chooses what's right? Are there certain unassailable standards by how to live life besides the guidance offered by this so-called 'authentic' self?

The kind of good I feel that feels better than the others seems of a different kind. Deeper, more as though it resonates on a deeper level than simply liking something. Gives a sense of inner joy, really. Maybe this sense is something that is built in; you sense when your internal state is least incongruent, least conflicted.

I don't hold much for perfect "unassailability". I suppose nothing we feel or know is totally unassailable. Uncertainty is part of our existence; I find it quite tolerable to not be "certain". We do the best we can.

[Lamplighter]

Hm really interesting question you’ve raised here Sky .

I suppose I just take for granted what being authentic or true to one’s authentic self involves, I’ve not really tried to put it into words before, it’s just been something instinctive (fwiw I’m very rarely authentic and it’s a real bone of contention in my mind, a catalyst for a lot of self hate and self contempt…)

I have to say that I don’t really see it operating in the realm of food and whatever other shoulds oughts and conflicting hedonistic pleasures might arise (like smoking, or getting drunk and out of it) all of which are generic human behaviours and not specifically related to or arising from a sense of unique authenticity (only my understanding of it of course.)

If I had to define it I think I’d say – being true to my internal sense of what’s right/wrong for me in any given moment – that may well end up being misguided (due to pathology, emotional issues, mental health problems whatever…) but that anything else is being fake (in the sense of adopting a false externally acquired façade of self) and therefore working against me. I dunno I guess it’s just something you KNOW, internally.

Like if I fancied eating disgustingly unhealthy hugely calorific food, if that’s what I really wanted in the moment I’d probably do it and know it was being ‘true’ and authentic. But I’m aware that equally in any other given moment, I’d refuse to eat the same food – I believe that we have an innate drive to health and that stuff like overeating or over drinking or any other form of apparently self destructive behaviour is actually self regulated if we are in touch with our authentic on our sides self… bit airy fairy I know, sorry. I can’t seem to explain it any better.

Lol and for what it’s worth, I’m so rarely authentic that it’s a constant struggle to do the right thing by myself…

Mainly I see authenticity as relating to what we need and want in order to function to our maximum capacity (Maslow’s self actualised apotheosis of being human). In a way that could be judged as selfish, but fundamentally I don’t thing being selfish is that terrible a thing. Putting the lives and happiness of loved ones before your own comfort and wellbeing can also be considered selfish on this level, because it matters to you and is true to who you are to put them first – being true to your own values and needs and wants yeah that’s authenticity and not selfish in the usual morally pejorative meaning of the word.

Lol I’ve really gone on and on haven’t I? Sky I think I’m picking up a feeling here of fearing the label of selfishness, more than a not knowing what being authentic actually means. Out of interest, what do you think being authentic entails?

Torn

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by skysblue

But, by using that standard, what 'feels good' may not necessarily be the way to determine authenticity, I'm wondering.

I have never heard being authentic equated with what "feels good." So I guess I don't agree with what you've written. For me, being authentic is expressing one's true self, not hiding, not pretending to be something one's not, having one's inner and outer selfs come into congruence. For me, it doesn't have much to do with seeking out what feels good, like eating junk food as in your example. It may indeed feel good to be authentic but that doesn't mean that all things that feel good (eating favorite foods) are part of being authentic.

[elliemay]

I'm not sure either that authentic means what feels good. I think it means what feels "right" to you.

If eating potato chips feels right to you, then go for it. If eating a salad feels like a better choice, then, well, that's your authentic self.

But then, by extension, if you had a friend who said "I never eat potato chips because I take the high moral ground on junk food. What about you".

The authentic self would say, "Oh I do eat potato chips" and be done with it.

It's about stopping the lying to yourself and others.

[skysblue]

Hey all, pondering all of your wonderful replies. I will think on them a bit and then respond. This is a big big question for me and I need to find an answer that is permanently meaningful.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by elliemay

It's about stopping the lying to yourself and others.

Yes!

----------

[rainbow8]

I agree with elliemay: it's about stopping the lying to yourself and others. I think being authentic is something you know with your heart and mind. In DBT language, it would be wise mind: the intersection of emotion mind and rational mind.

Good luck, skysblue. Once a T told me to sit with myself quietly and I would find the answer. She wasn't necessarily telling me to meditate, but to listen to myself rather than what others may be telling me to do.

[learning1]

I wondered whether your t brought this topic up originally?

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by learning1

I wondered whether your t brought this topic up originally?

Yes, the thread that ties all of our therapy sessions together has been the quest to find my authentic self and to be able to live life more honestly. Yes, it is a concept brought to life by my therapist. How well I understand it is still a question.

I'm wondering if 'feelings' may be considered more 'authentic' that thoughts that so often override feelings.

[learning1]

Yeah, I think feelings tend to be more authentic.

[feralkittymom]

I actually think feelings can be more deceptive. I find my rational mind is a better indicator of authenticity, and the feelings are easier to see as congruent or not. When they're not, I can usually figure out that they are being imposed upon the present from the past.

[unaluna]

Getting to authenticity is a recursive process for me. Sometimes it happens when I'm eating chips, sometimes it happens when I'm eating salad. It's not the thing I'm doing, it's me.