[Ricc]

Many therapeutic approaches for the treatment of depression, anxiety and so on, rely on the teaching of breath techniques. I have a pronounced nasal septum deviation, with respiratory functionality reduced of about 30%-40% .

Skipping on the details of my psychological condition, I have the scientific curiosity of knowing if someone ever studied the effects of reduced air intake (eventually caused by nasal septum deviation) on psychological disorders.

I will not go for septoplasty unless I can prove myself that nasal septum deviation can be a co-factor in mental disorders.
What I have found relates only to the otorhinolaryngologist point of view.

Thank you!

PS-I cross-posted on NeuroTalk, but I think I'll hardly have a reply there. Hope this isn't a probem...

[CantExplain]

Hi!

I hate to see any post go unanswered, but you really do have the wrong board.

Over here, we tend to think of mental illness in terms of emotional trauma in childhood rather than a shortage of oxygen.

Good luck!

[ECHOES]

Originally Posted by Ricc

Many therapeutic approaches for the treatment of depression, anxiety and so on, rely on the teaching of breath techniques. I have a pronounced nasal septum deviation, with respiratory functionality reduced of about 30%-40% .

Skipping on the details of my psychological condition, I have the scientific curiosity of knowing if someone ever studied the effects of reduced air intake (eventually caused by nasal septum deviation) on psychological disorders.

I will not go for septoplasty unless I can prove myself that nasal septum deviation can be a co-factor in mental disorders.
What I have found relates only to the otorhinolaryngologist point of view.

Thank you!

PS-I cross-posted on NeuroTalk, but I think I'll hardly have a reply there. Hope this isn't a probem...

I have to wonder why you are holding the surgical correction to this demand, but I would compare the effects of a deviated septum to the effects of sleep apnea. Both have the effect of reduces oxygen intake and the deviated septum could contribute to sleep apnea, which robs us of restful and restorative sleep, which contributes to not feeling well mentally and depression in general.

Maybe searching 'the effect of sleep on mental health' or 'sleep apnea and mental health/mental well being' (as a comparison), or 'oxygen intake/saturation and mental health/mental well being', etc. would uncover some data more specific to what you are wondering about.

[Perna]

Breathing techniques are not the same as how much oxygen one gets; breathing slowly and deeply calms the body in and of itself and is good for anxiety and stress situations.

Oxygen saturation of the blood is measured whenever there is a breathing problem (I have asthma, for example) or one goes to the hospital for a problem, it's a measurement like taking one's blood pressure and is a "standard" measure. It is estimated that 80% of the population has deviation http://www.obstructednose.com/nasal_...on_septum.html and yet there is no difference in oxygen saturation (my nose was broken December 2010 AND I have asthma) or mental health from those without. I don't think 80% of the population has mental problems that could be helped by getting their deviation fixed.

If you have difficulty breathing, nose bleeds too often, sinus problems, I would get the operation so you do not have those problems. It will probably not help any mental problems unless you don't like how you look or maybe if you believe problems are related to air flow in some way, as you seem to.

[Ricc]

@CantExplain
Whilst I found(following your opinion) I probably got it wrong considering psychotherapy inclusive of ALL the most common therapeutic approches, including pharmacotherapy, it is not an easy task to find an appropriate forum. The question I asked appears in fact to be at the limit between diagnosis and scientific research. I asked here because I thought some psychotherapists (in general, not only psychoanalysts) could be around.

@ECHOES
It doesn't seem I have sleep apnea, despite my sleep isn't that restorative and I have difficulty waking up. But I often feel breathless during the day. This of course is in major part due to stress, anxiety etc. My doubt however regards an hypothetical obstacle to well-being constituted by a reduced breath capacity during the day, and night too (considering no sleep apnea however). This obstacle in my case cannot be the primary cause of my problems as my deviated septum is of traumatic origin and my problems started well before this happened.
Since I do not have that much time and septoplasty scares me a bit, I am trying to learn and understand If my quality of life may improve or not. My feeling says that it would but I couldn't find literature on this topic by using similar search terms to the ones you suggested. My otorhinolaryngologist couldn't answer too. I will make a new search using search terms you suggested. These appear to be smarter than the ones I used.

[Ricc]

@Perna

It is clear that septum deviation cannot be a primary cause of mental illness. It is also clear that 80% of population do not have a deviation to the same extent; and within the percentage of the ones with strong deviation, only a percentage had lives that brought them to depression and near problems. You should see that we are not talking about the 80% of population, but of a much smaller slice.
Furthermore you might consider that in some cases (I feel in most cases) metal problems can be the result of concomitant eventuality, and healing may pass through a selective and incremental resolution of problems in order to establish a stable enough well-being.
I find interesting what you are saying about oxygen saturation of blood. I am going to search this, unless you have a link on your bookmarks .
However, not only the oxygen intake interests me; muscular/organ reaction interests me too, which may be of some importance.

As a joke you have a septum deviation and you have 18152 posts on psychcentral.. joking

[unaluna]

My pdoc supported my internist and referred me for a sleep study, the sleep doctor said a cpap can help depression. I felt noticeably less anxious my first two mornings on the cpap, which was not something I EXPECTED. have to go to T now, but didn't want to see this thread disappear!!

[Ricc]

@hankster
what is your "respiratory condition"?

This is interesting, from PubMed. I cannot post the link as I don't have 10 posts

Effect of nasal deviation on quality of life.
de Lima Ramos S, Hochman B, Gomes HC, Abla LE, Veiga DF, Juliano Y, Dini GM, Ferreira LM.
Source
Postgraduate Program in Plastic Surgery, Universidade Federal de São Paulo, Escola Paulista de Medicina, São Paulo, Brazil.
Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Nasal deviation is a common complaint in otorhinolaryngology and plastic surgery. This condition not only causes impairment of nasal function but also affects quality of life, leading to psychological distress. The subjective assessment of quality of life, as an important aspect of outcomes research, has received increasing attention in recent decades. Quality of life is measured using standardized questionnaires that have been tested for reliability, validity, and sensitivity. The aim of this study was to evaluate health-related quality of life, self-esteem, and depression in patients with nasal deviation.
METHODS:
Sixty patients were selected for the study. Patients with nasal deviation (n = 32) were assigned to the study group, and patients without nasal deviation (n = 28) were assigned to the control group. The diagnosis of nasal deviation was made by digital photogrammetry. Quality of life was assessed using the Medical Outcomes Study 36-Item Short Form Health Survey questionnaire; the Rosenberg Self-Esteem/Federal University of São Paulo, Escola Paulista de Medicina Scale; and the 20-item Self-Report Questionnaire.
RESULTS:
There were significant differences between groups in the physical functioning and general health subscales of the Medical Outcomes Study 36-Item Short Form Health Survey (p < 0.05). Depression was detected in 11 patients (34.4 percent) in the study group and in two patients in the control group, with a significant difference between groups (p < 0.05).
CONCLUSIONS:
Nasal deviation is an aspect of rhinoplasty of which the surgeon should be aware so that proper psychological diagnosis can be made and suitable treatment can be planned because psychologically the patients with nasal deviation have significantly worse quality of life and are more prone to depression. CLINICAL QUESTION/LEVEL OF EVIDENCE: Risk, II.(Figure is included in full-text article.).

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Ricc

@hankster
what is your "respiratory condition"?

The sleep specialist said she did see some deviation in my septum, but would not refer me for surgery until and unless the CPAP machine was unhelpful or ineffective. This was before my two overnight sleep studies (first without a CPAP, the 2nd with). So they found I have sleep apnea.

Have you considered such a machine? I found I was able to breathe thru my nose (keeping my mouth shut) after the one night of the sleep study, and now that I have my own machine, that again is true. I am looking forward to seeing if I find swimming easier this summer.

[Ricc]

I never considered such a machine but it comes to be more and more interesting as I read of evidences and personal stories. I'd prefer definitely to get a surgical intervention if it could resolve the problem. In fact as you say you can keep your mouth shut during night, I could be doing so as I keep it shut practically all day and I breath through one nostril and barely a half of the other one. In any case I suppose a sleep study and an eventual trial with a rented cpap may be a good way for learning.
I am pretty convinced of trying this as my sleep is terrible even tough I never associated this to sleep apnea.
It would be interesting to know how do you feel in some day after some extensive use of that machine! could you let us know about it?

[unaluna]

I used the machine for two nights, skipped 2 nights (it takes some getting used to, it's like having a new bed partner!), then by yesterday evening I was feeling out of breath and sluggish again. I used the machine again last night and I awoke earlier, and more alert than I can ever remember.

If I were you, I would try the machine BEFORE surgery, for 2 reasons, as I also debated this point: 1. you avoid surgery, which always carries the chance of complications 2. I spoke to a cousin. he had surgery, after his father had surgery. His father (my mother's brother) snored so loudly, the entire nursing home floor was unable to sleep! (he had a stroke in his 80's, but he had always snored.) So he didn't have a choice! After my uncle's surgery, my cousin chose to have surgery, as he had the same problem. On the phone, he said to me, "And now my nose is clear, listen: SSSnnnifff!" It did not sound very clear to me. NOT AT ALL. My nose after the machine sounds much clearer: 'puf puf' See? Okay, I am beeing a little silly, but I just was NOT impressed with his nose.

Anyway, I even stopped having constant nightmares, and the lessening of anxiety upon awakening, my therapist attributes to waking up during the proper sleep cycle and less sleep apnea. I'm a believer! Good luck, feel free to contact me or ask me any more questions.

[rockymtngal]

I had surgery to correct mine. Prior to surgery I couldn't breathe through my nose at all. After surgery I am able to, about 90% of the time. It has made a huge improvement on my mood. Huge! Highly recommend the surgery if you need it. It wasn't that painful. The most painful part was my ear which they removed cartilage from to place in my nose to construct a wider airway.

[Ricc]

Hankster, maybe he wasn't even able to Sniiiff before the surgery That may be an improvement too. I'll surely try the cpap if it is the case, before surgery, as a test. In fact it doesn't appeal me that much to sleep with a machine...

rockymtngal I'm really happy for you, little things that do bring big advantages upon easy correction are surely those that bring more happiness.

I'll take an appointment to take a further look into this, at least I may get rid of this doubt (for my case); in the general case it appears (to me at lest) that nasal deviation can have some effect on quality of life and consequently on psychological well-being.

[radu]

Ricc,

20 years ago I had a bicycle accident, and broke my nose. At the moment when I went to the hospital, the doctor didn't fix it, he told me to came back 1 week later and I finally didn't came back. Big mistake. Before the accident I always had very reposing night sleep. After it, this went away and I went into depression without knowing the causes at that time. My septum is bent towards one side but most importantly, the upper air passage of both nostrils are reduced in size because the nose bone was displaced. I can still breath by the nose but with less volume and especially not trough the upper portion of the nose (where the nostrils are thinner). I believe this caused me to lost that reposing night sleep which has an impact on the general well being. I just want to point out that the doctors will probably never agree with this point of view, because it is very hard to evaluate scientifically.

Now to worsen it all, recently I went to see a ENT specialist and instead of reconstructing the air passage properly he went with a shortcut which many ENT specialists use to do. He did what is called a turbinate reduction. The result basically destroyed the remaining of my sleep comfort, but this is another story.

The point is, I believe a restricted air passage in the nostrils can cause depression. During the sleep, there are certain parts inside the nostrils that get more dilated than during day time, and the air passage became even more restricted. Air restriction during sleep may reduce proper oxygenation and the quality of sleep.

As a side note, I don't have sleep apnea. And another side note, the only moment when I had again a resting sleep in the past 20 years was... at the moment of the turbinate surgery when I went under general anesthesia. When I woke up I almost wanted to hug the doctor for that sleep, that's how amazing it was to have a normal rest again. Hint: I had an oxygen intubation during the surgery.

Originally Posted by Ricc

Hankster, maybe he wasn't even able to Sniiiff before the surgery That may be an improvement too. I'll surely try the cpap if it is the case, before surgery, as a test. In fact it doesn't appeal me that much to sleep with a machine...

rockymtngal I'm really happy for you, little things that do bring big advantages upon easy correction are surely those that bring more happiness.

I'll take an appointment to take a further look into this, at least I may get rid of this doubt (for my case); in the general case it appears (to me at lest) that nasal deviation can have some effect on quality of life and consequently on psychological well-being.

[Pietrovi]

My problems started since 4 years ago. Anxiety, strong emotions. This started after that someone hitting me and broken my nose. I lived with this near 2 years. I do not feel well, but I don't need any psychological help. I felt that my anxiety, tension, growing up. Of course I was interested psychology, because I wanted to know what is wrong with me and why. I read a lot about PTSD, and I know about it everything, really everything. Because my feeling all the time became stronger I started looked for therapist. I went for therapy about one year, my therapist also said that is PTSD. He wanted to help me. This therapy help me for few moments only, and after while everything was the same. I didn't have any hope for a get better. After that I finish my study, and therapy.

I started interesting meditation, and east philosophy . I started meditated. That help me, but like psychological therapy only for a few moment. I wanted be mindfulness, open-minded, I give up my fight with my emotions, I try to not identify with my emotions, and thoughts. But after half year my emotions are really strong.

I thought about deviate septum earlier, but it seems to be another unreal cause of my problem. Someday I putted it in to my left nose hole, some paper and I walked that all day, I couldn't breathe for my left nose hole, but I could take breath trough my right hole which had really smaller area, for my surprise my emotions became really weaker. But I thought that is only illusion. After while I try do that for all night, and I was really surprised, when I woke up. I felt real calm, any thoughts on surface of my mind, any strong emotional reactions. But after 4 years, I can't believe in this. Now I connect this, ours surface from left nostril is stimulating by airflow and conduct impulse to some perceptional area in right cerebrum hemisphere. If in my right nostril is huge restriction of airflow, the stimulation of perceptional area in right nostril and left hemisphere is really low. My right hemisphere is hyperactive and my left hemisphere is not enough stimulate. My hemispheres are in imbalance with a predominance of the right hemisphere. Right hemisphere is response for emotional reprocessing, now I think I know why my emotional reactions was so strong, and I couldn't do a lot with that. It is improve by research that high level activation of right prefrontal cortex cause worried, sorrow, anxiety. In our nose work interesting mechanism, from most time we breathe trough one from our two nostril. You have to check that. Our autonomic nervous system control that mechanism. I thing that is depend of needing rest our brain hemisphere. If our left hemisphere need to rest our autonomic nervous system blocks airflow trough right nostril, and the same, if our right hemisphere need to rest ANS blocks airflow trough left nostril. If dolphins need to rest or sleep, for example his left brain hemisphere need to rest, he close his right eye, and his left hemisphere is not stimulate. This is only example.

I write from Poland, I’m sorry for my English. I’m happy, that I can find some confirm of my thinking.
I wait for operation of my deviation septum.

[Sager]

Hello Ricc

Would like to know if you have done any checks whether you have sleep apnea and deviated septum?

I have the above 2 symptoms and what happened is I often have one congested/stuff nostril and post nasal drips (no running nose), I would always wake up feeling tired and both nose would likely be blocked but one much worse than the other.

I have mild anxiety since young and now in my mid 30s so I wonder if there was any co-relations, I think till date there was insufficient medical data to ascertain this fact...

I have been using the decongestant like nasal sprays for some years but not really improving a lot, I still wake up every morning feeling tired even if I have 8 hrs of sleep.

Done a minor op to shrink the turbinates and removed my tonsil to prevent snoring many years back, the snoring reduces but the rest remains and even the blocked nose worsen.

I am thinking of going for a septoplasty surgery to correct this deviated septum condition and hope my breathing will improve over time and improve my overall well being.

Have you done any surgery thus far?

best regards
Sager