MSW/LCSW vs Ph.D

Many many studies have shown that it's the relationship that is healing, not the approach or qualifications.

I concur. That is what ny T says as well. My T btw is a phd in social work so a bit different but fantastic. I am sure T would have been fantastic with just the msw but chose to pursue the phd for career/academic goals. T does research, teaches, etc so the phd helps on that front.

My pdoc wants to spend an hour with me every time I see her, but I have no particular interest in doing therapy with her as I have a T I love. I talk to er about my physical symptoms and leave the emotional stuff for T.

Interestingly, my pdoc gets about half the money from my insurance that my T does. He's apparently excellent at negotiating his insurance contracts.

I agree as well. I've had three Ts: Phd & 2 LPCs. My current and best T is an LPC. She is excellent, and we have an excellent therapeutic relationship.

I would not worry about credentials beyond finding an educated, licensed T. Masters or PhD/PsyD would not matter to me one bit.

The fact is that training of various types will influence a person, even if they end up rebelling against that training. I met someone who was at the very founding of CBT and yet believed that because it fits into a certain model it was prematurely "manualized." So when he teaches it, he focuses on all sorts of things that are more knowledge and our perceptions of science before he even gets into the principles, let alone the technique. But he is a maverick and atypical. He is also vocally critical of the training as it exists and the other things that impinge on doctoral level training.

As far as thinking of credentials, I tend not to, but the training involved with becoming an analyst is significant and does often result in a degree even if that is not the primary purpose. This kind of total emersion in the process of 5-7 years of analytic training plus personal analysis is more like a testimony to a commitment regardless of the "professionalism" that is "acquired" by things like "credentials."

All I was trying to do is point out that at least with some people (and I'm not alone though it may still be atypical) that psychiatrists don't necessarily fall into the category of pill-pushing nerds. Yes, they have that training and are board certified in psychopharacology which takes lots of time to keep up with the latest developments, but with my past three analysts who were also psychiatrists they actively resented the push from companies and used it instead to acquire free samples for patients who might need the help without insurance to get started on a medication. I myself have been relatively medicine free, except for a sleeping pill and occasional use of anti-anxiety meds. The psychiatrists I've seen and others that I've talked to, while believing in medication, still like to see people off the medication and see what they are really like. I've encountered much deeper, richer, more humane understanding with psychiatrists than with any other type of therapist. So I just wanted to try to debunk the stereotype because though maybe my experience isn't typical, there are many patients seen by this steady group of analysts so I am by no means alone.

along with stopdog i see a psychdoc that its rare to see them over 10-15 min. i do not have much choice but to goto a community mental health center. which is almost like a mill in a way. the workers dont listen. they dont have time for you. they push drugs.

ive never found a therapist that has helped me. one downside about that was that there was a time where i had called many in my city when i was hellbent on getting a good one and many denied me because i told them my dx. basically what they said over the phone was they most likely couldnt help me and /or referred me elsewhere. so i called one more and didnt say my dx. but after a few sessions with that one i told her my dx. at the end of that specific session they told me that they were sorry but they couldnt help me. flat out.

to me the mental health system has become mainly a huge joke.
ill be just straight and honest. . . all the ones ive been to anyway seem severely unexperienced for me.
but at the same time im not completely sure where to I GUESS get specific help.
its hard to explain...

Thanks for your response, and I would be angry as hell if I tried to find someone good to see me and no one would based on my dx...that's their job, right? Anyway, I am sorry you had to go through all of that and are still dealing with the people who just want to give you drugs. That way you are forced to depend on them but can't get help getting much better overall. Load of crap!

thanks
yes
its sort of a catch 22...in a way...
i have schizophrenia. which because of my diagnosis is supposed to open up doors for much intensive help. BUT at the same time not only is it limited help meaning if there was any at all they can take only very few people but also very few professionals specialize in working with patients with it at that - so finding borderline good help is close to impossible.

except for meds of course.

althought this seemingly catch 22 could be partially because the state im in is at the very bottom of the list of best to worst states for mental health services. literally #50. add on to that i live in the rural so....pft.

You would think once you find some help with meds as a starting place, someone should specialize in your dx and be able to work with you from there. I am sorry you are stuck in a state with such poor mental health care.

I think newtus' experience is a call to the mental health profession for better training and experience in schizophrenia. There should be more professionals trained in this disorder.

However, schizophrenia as a disorder and in terms of treatment, does require specialization and knowledge. I am glad that mental health professionals don't treat what they are not trained to treat. The consequences of poor or inexperienced treatment are too severe. Nobody should take your money if they don't think they can help you.

im sure there are some but
im not sure what to do.

id imagine its not easy or just impossibe with what i have. epecially where i am.

I'll second that, and add that experience goes a long way as well.

msw lmsw lcsw is not a mental health counselor they are social workers. because of shortages of qualified lpc, lmhc and lp social workers are hired. social workers also have the strongest lobby with the govt. so they have most of the federal jobs. however they are not equipped to handle mental illness. anyone can help you pull emotions out but they better know what they are doing once they are out and social workers are not trained for that

The LCSW I see is perfectly trained to deal with my "mental illness"...I am surrounded in the state I live in by both Ph.Ds and MSWs/LCSWs seeing clients in exactly the same manner (in their own private practices), so they, in theory, must be doing something right. I currently see a Ph.D and a LCSW, and the LCSW has been by far more helpful to me with my depression and my anxiety.

I agree with critterlady and seventyeight who stated earlier in the thread that the connection between the T and the client is the most important element to having successful therapy, not the exact degree hanging on the wall, and experience is incredibly helpful as well.

**And I know you had to dig deep to find this thread...interesting...seeing how it's been almost 5 months ago since it was started. How surprised I was to see the thread I started has life again...I guess so do I, with a different user name and with plenty of experience to answer my own question now. **

Newtus can you go and have T's help with your symptoms without telling them your dx? If they ask go through all the Dx's you've ever had.

Well, they are doctors and generally are the physicians who prescribe and monitor medications, so I suppose you can call them "pill pushers" (seems derogatory to me, but you may not mean it that way).

No, most psychiatrists don't do therapy; they defer to therapists who are much more affordable and have more availability for that kind of treatment. Psychiatrist appointments do tend to be in the neighborhood of 10-20 minutes because, honestly, it doesn't take terribly long to go over how medications are working once the initial intake has been done. Their medical appointments last pretty much the same amount of time as any other medical appointments I have. It is rare for any physician to spend much longer than that amount of time for a routine visit (and psychiatric medication check-ups are very routine appointments). If more time is needed because of a crisis or complications, my pdoc will take more time as he needs to, but that isn't needed terribly often.

My husband's pdoc DOES do some therapy, although not as intensive as his regular sessions with his therapist. His pdoc appointments run more towards 30-45 minutes as she does more "therapy" in her sessions.

It depends on the pdoc and their preference/technique, etc.