I ask because this is not a strong skill my t has. She is very lenient and has answered her phone in session during the last few weeks. She gave directions to her house in front of me. I already knew where she lives but this was very unproffesssional.
I had another t who had very strong boundaries, every session ended on time, she would not answer emails or text unless it was to cancel. She told me nothing about herself.
I am curious about your ts and their boundaries. How do they set firm boundaries and stick to them, or do they?

[mixedup_emotions]

Wow, I would be quite upset if my T answered his phone during my session. That is my time! I hope you are able to talk to your T about how you feel about this. Sometimes his phone rings during my sessions. He ignores it and we keep talking - but it annoyed me that the phone even rang. One time, I told him how annoyed I felt by the phone ringing, and he made an attempt to send it to voicemail so it would stop ringing.

My T is quite mindful of boundaries, firm with some, less so with others. It's a good balance and professional.

That would bother me too if my ts phone kept ringing, at least he heard what you had to say about it and rectified it
I didn't tell t it bothered me for the simple reason she had to answer it because they were delivering it there and then but she could have left the room, especially when giving out directions to her house.
I think a t needs to be flexible with their boundaries depending on the particular client and their needs.

[mixedup_emotions]

I agree that flexibility can be helpful for some clients - while other clients need firmer boundaries.

I'd imagine that my T is more flexible in certain ways because I am very respectful of people's boundaries. If I had an issue with crossing people's boundaries, he'd probably be more strict with his boundaries.

Yes exactly mue, that's what I was trying to say but couldn't get the words out, thank you!
I think my t knows that I have some transference for her so giving out her address right in front of me could be dangerous, I am not a stalker but I imagine it could have been dangerous in front of some clients.

[Anne2.0]

Self disclosure and boundaries have been two separate things in my experience with my most recent T. My other T's were limited in their self disclosure, although my second one was less so. My current T has shared a lot with me about himself, I could probably write a pretty accurate biography with a fair amount of detail. It hasn't ever felt boundary-violating to me, though, and it's never felt like it was about him.

About boundaries in the more physical sense-- he starts and ends on time. He encourages me to call if I need to, but I can't imagine that he'd ever answer his phone in session or talk on his phone in the way you've suggested.

I do think that it's your job to tell your T that you're uncomfortable with these things. I suspect that you're not a person who even comes close to violating boundaries, and that is one reason why your T does these things. But it might be really helpful to you to speak up and let her know the effect this has on you.

[tinyrabbit]

I would be absolutely livid if my T answered his phone during a session. He leaves it on all the time I think but on silent. So people can leave voicemail or text, but he doesn't answer it or look at it during sessions and I've never been aware of it ringing.

As to my T, he is good with boundaries but not rigid. I would say he is flexible and has boundaries that work for both me and him. Phone calls make me anxious so if I call him about an extra session or something and leave voicemail he will text in response as he knows I get stressed about calls. He has self-disclosed a little but only ever in ways that will benefit me eg to model disclosure or give me an example of something he's trying to explain.

He starts and ends on time but doesn't see clients back to back and has occasionally allowed the session to run over for a good reason. Once I was very upset about something and then the traffic was bad and I was ten minutes late. He gave me a full hour on that occasion even though we started late. He answers texts but not usually emails and doesn't get into therapy outside sessions - he might acknowledge something but not comment on it in detail.

Something some people might see as a boundary issue: he shares his coffee with me. It's actually quite a complex thing - I have trouble asking him for things due to transference and asking for a cup of coffee every session has been quite important.

[anilam]

I don't understand. If you don't mind her taking the phone and you already knew where she lived, what's the problem here?
Re the boundaries- my T has very few-it's the payment (+ cancellation policy), length of the "hour" 50 mins- though I know that sometimes he goes over- happened with few clients but when I rang the bell they left- and that it's OK to say/ask whatever I want to.
Re his self-disclosure- I guess he's quite open about some things (his own life), not so about other things (his wife/kids). Never have I asked about his other clients, but he told me all my info is private so I guess/hope he wouldn't tell me anything about them.
However, he never talks about it unless I ask.
Re his phone it's on silent. Never ever has he taken a call while in session. Though I'd be OK if he told me, he needs to take/make some important call as an exception- if it happened regularly, it would be annoying and I wouldn't tolerate it.
I do know where he lives though- we have this online list of all companies paying taxes and you could/should check this before you start dealing with virtually any firm. That's what I've done in the beginning (I ran a simple online check on him- this being one of the things) and he's listed his home address there (together with his wife's business). Told him about it but obviously he's not scared a client might stalked him...not sure how wise this move is, actually but it's his decision to make.

[tinyrabbit]

Anilam I'm surprised you don't see the problem with a T attending to other people and not the client during the client's session. How is that not a problem?!

[anilam]

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

Anilam I'm surprised you don't see the problem with a T attending to other people and not the client during the client's session. How is that not a problem?!

I didn't say it's not a problem- but I though MS didn't mind- tried to find the piece I meant and come up with this-

I didn't tell t it bothered me for the simple reason she had to answer it because they were delivering it there and then but she could have left the room, especially when giving out directions to her house.

Somehow I misinterpreted into the OP didn't mind and was confused (sorry MS). As I have written, it would be a problem for me if my T answered his phone in sessions regularly. Again, I'm sorry. Thanks Tiny Rabbit for bringing it up.

[granite1]

my T has very strong boundaries. i tend to like that. i think i need consistancy in that relationship to feel safe and like she isn't going to bail out on me

[stopdog]

The woman's phone has gone off a couple of times and it often vibrates. She has not answered it but once and that was after telling me she would answer if a particular call came through. I was not especially concerned about it and I have taken two phone calls in three years while there after telling her I would need to do so. One time she checked a text or email and so I got out my phone and did the same. It has not happened again. She has not been incapable of staying back if I call and leave a message about something. One time she tried to go over the time limit but it made me uncomfortable because I did not know when she would suddenly stop it so I ended it instead. She is mostly on time to begin. I usually stand up and leave when the agreed upon time is over.
The woman can have her dog there and then someone comes and picks it up in the middle of the appointment by knocking on the door, then she has to leash the dog up and hand him off. She pets the dog, gives him biscuits and talks to him during the appointment. I find this to be unacceptable so if the dog is there, I do not go. She tests me on this every so often, usually saying after the fact that she thought I may have "softened" about the situation. Thus far I have remained firm.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by tinyrabbit

Anilam I'm surprised you don't see the problem with a T attending to other people and not the client during the client's session. How is that not a problem?!

I think context is important. The context, which was not given to us in the OP, is that the t was having something delivered, which would be something of an exception? And that the address was to a deliveryperson. Except now I'm wondering if it's flowers from the boyfriend, so now I'm thinking, yes it is a big intrusion. If she's having furniture delivered, she would be at home expecting it, wouldn't she??

This kinda blows the "oh she gets me without talking" positive fantasy all to heck, because now, without talking, I'm having all these negative fantasies. This is why I learned to like to talk it out. It's maybe a hard lesson to learn, but there aren't as many ups and downs afterwards. Your imagination doesn't run away with you. You can just see yourself holding hands with the other person while they explain what's going on, and you're alright. It's life.

Originally Posted by hankster

I think context is important. The context, which was not given to us in the OP, is that the t was having something delivered, which would be something of an exception? And that the address was to a deliveryperson. Except now I'm wondering if it's flowers from the boyfriend, so now I'm thinking, yes it is a big intrusion. If she's having furniture delivered, she would be at home expecting it, wouldn't she??

This kinda blows the "oh she gets me without talking" positive fantasy all to heck, because now, without talking, I'm having all these negative fantasies. This is why I learned to like to talk it out. It's maybe a hard lesson to learn, but there aren't as many ups and downs afterwards. Your imagination doesn't run away with you. You can just see yourself holding hands with the other person while they explain what's going on, and you're alright. It's life.

See, I don't know what she was having delivered she asked could she leave her phone on, but didn't mention she was expecting a phonecall. She got quite annoyed on the phone with the delivery man which I didn't like to see because it showed a whole new side to t. We were also talking about important stuff before the call about my mother and then after the call it went out the window because t didn't even say sorry or where were we she waited for me to pick up and as I am not in anyway assertive I froze.
It does blow the "oh she gets me without talking" out the window

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

Self disclosure and boundaries have been two separate things in my experience with my most recent T. My other T's were limited in their self disclosure, although my second one was less so. My current T has shared a lot with me about himself, I could probably write a pretty accurate biography with a fair amount of detail. It hasn't ever felt boundary-violating to me, though, and it's never felt like it was about him.

About boundaries in the more physical sense-- he starts and ends on time. He encourages me to call if I need to, but I can't imagine that he'd ever answer his phone in session or talk on his phone in the way you've suggested.

I do think that it's your job to tell your T that you're uncomfortable with these things. I suspect that you're not a person who even comes close to violating boundaries, and that is one reason why your T does these things. But it might be really helpful to you to speak up and let her know the effect this has on you.

Yes, you are right it is my job to tell the t that I am uncomfortable but she usualy knows when I am.
I would never cross another persons boundaries because mine have been crossed so many times and it's horrible. I prefer t to stick with her boundaries and be consistant.
Can I ask you Anne, why do you think t does these things to me?

[~EnlightenMe~]

My T has firm yet flexible boundaries. He individualizes his boundaries based on what I share with him and what he believes I need. I don't do well with people with so few boundaries that I feel enmeshed or with people with boundaries so rigid that I feel rejected. Actually, this doesn't really translate to real life, mainly in therapy. I think boundaries have to be individualized to fit the patient, and patients who push boundaries don't always need stricter boundaries, but may need more flexible boundaries to feel stabilized and thus be able to work on their issues. Sometimes, stricter boundaries are needed.

My T self-discloses at times but as others have said, it doesn't feel intrusive, but that it adds to my therapy

As far as boundaries go, I'm not talking about situations where therapists' lives might be in danger, that is completely different.

[unaluna]

I am so sorry, really. The IDEAL thing would have been for you to say what you were feeling right then when she hung up the phone, like "you kinda scared me, the way you talked to that guy. You sound like my mother." I hate it but my t tells me when I sound like my mother, and he REALLY hates it when I tell him HE sounds like my mother. We've made it into kind of a joke now, but the first few times were AWFUL. awful, awful, awful!! Only took 7 years to be able to laugh about it - that's all

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by monalisasmile

I prefer t to stick with her boundaries and be consistant.
Can I ask you Anne, why do you think t does these things to me?

I am sorry, I didn't mean to imply I had some kind of special knowledge about your T. My guess is that she's more willing to self disclose (including giving her address) because she trusts that you're not going to come to her house and peek in her windows. If you had a different kind of issue, like you were constantly asking her questions about her life, she would put up those boundaries faster than you could blink.

The phone thing was a one time occurrence, right? I don't think it was about you, I think it was about her, and that she needed to get something accomplished during your session and didn't have any choice about it (but to cancel, I suppose).

But if you think that T is blurring these boundaries in different ways and more frequently, then that's probably also about her rather than you. It may be that if you don't speak up about what makes you uncomfortable, then others, including T's, may be more likely to continue doing it. And it's difficult, IMO, to argue that they "should know" that it makes you uncomfortable unless you say so.

I'd really like to see you take the next step from your posting, and let your T know what's on your mind. I think it would be really good for you to break out of feeling like you can't tell her what's true for you.

My t has strong boundaries, although they are flexible in the right places. It's always a respectful give and take if that makes sense, like she is very aware of ending our sessions on time and in return for that, our sessions have never been interrupted by her cell phone or any other phone. Now that we do phone sessions, I call her cell phone, so it can't ring . She doesn't self-disclose very much at all, but on the rare occasion that she does, it is always because what she says relates directly to my therapy. I didn't have her email address before she moved, so email was never an issue in the past, and now that I have her email address (because I email her the stuff I used to bring her a copy of when we met in person, my dreams etc that I type up) I am practicing mindfulness with it because I don't want to have to have that "talk" with her about abusing it. She doesn't respond to emails because so far I've been able to stick with emailing the stuff for the next session and leaving it at that. I text her if I need to cancel or request an extra appointment. There was a short time back in Feb when I was feeling really needy and texting her between appointments for no good reason (just to feel the connection) and after the 2nd time she offered a paid mini-session (15 minutes) between sessions which I did take her up on a couple times. I appreciate that she makes sure she is taken care of too, as in getting paid for the work she does, it is something that I need to learn (I crochet a lot and tend to give things away when people ask because I have a hard time asking for money even when they offer to pay, and my h gets so upset that I pay for the yarn but don't charge for the items I make). I know where she lives, because since she moved, that's the address she gave me to send my payments. Aside from the fact that I think she knows I'm not a stalker lol it's awfully darn far away from where I live!! All in all my T's boundaries are positive ones and strong and have been a good example for me, learning to set my own boundaries with FOO or whoever. I used to hate that we had to end on time. But I have come to appreciate it actually, it makes the her being a container for my process thing more concrete.

[wotchermuggle]

My T has strong boundaries on some things, and flexible boundaries on other things.

I have strong boundaries on most things, so I think T tries to be flexible so that I'll learn to be more flexible.

There's only ever been one boundary that I didn't agree with and it's a continuing issue (not major) in my therapy. I can get around it but it's not ideal.

[ultramar]

I think at the core of 'good/therapeutic' boundaries, is that the therapist has the patient's well-being and needs foremost in mind/at heart, and acts accordingly. I feel this is the case with my therapist and he has demonstrated it in many ways (though -because of my stuff, not him- it took some time for me to internalize this).

The boundaries -which are both consistent and flexible (hard to explain, but that's how I feel it)- are about what I need at any given time and it helps me that we can talk openly about such things; I feel that it's a collaboration, not something adversarial.

I think if the therapist is -however unconsciously- trying to meet their own needs with/through us, this will manifest itself in poor boundaries. This is kind of vague, but I guess a whole book could be written about it.

Phones have been brought up here. At first during sessions, my therapist's cell phone would ring occasionally (he didn't answer) and the volume was on (and high!) on his computer, so whenever he got an e-mail (often) it would sound off that alert.

At some point I got up the gumption to ask him if he could turn his phone ringer off and turn off the sound on his computer. It was very distracting and I'm also not good with sudden noises and if I was particularly anxious I would nearly and/or quite literally jump.

He had no problem with this, I think was happy that I asked for what I needed and now the turning off of these things has become a kind of ritual at the beginning of every session. It actually feels good, starting sessions this way, it makes me feel from the get-go that he's willing to meet this need and that from that moment it is about me -or us, if you will- and no one and nothing else.

Originally Posted by stopdog

The woman's phone has gone off a couple of times and it often vibrates. She has not answered it but once and that was after telling me she would answer if a particular call came through. I was not especially concerned about it and I have taken two phone calls in three years while there after telling her I would need to do so. One time she checked a text or email and so I got out my phone and did the same. It has not happened again. She has not been incapable of staying back if I call and leave a message about something. One time she tried to go over the time limit but it made me uncomfortable because I did not know when she would suddenly stop it so I ended it instead. She is mostly on time to begin. I usually stand up and leave when the agreed upon time is over.
The woman can have her dog there and then someone comes and picks it up in the middle of the appointment by knocking on the door, then she has to leash the dog up and hand him off. She pets the dog, gives him biscuits and talks to him during the appointment. I find this to be unacceptable so if the dog is there, I do not go. She tests me on this every so often, usually saying after the fact that she thought I may have "softened" about the situation. Thus far I have remained firm.

Oh my God, I am a dog lover but that is taking the biscuit(sorry SD, I couldn't resist)

Originally Posted by hankster

I am so sorry, really. The IDEAL thing would have been for you to say what you were feeling right then when she hung up the phone, like "you kinda scared me, the way you talked to that guy. You sound like my mother." I hate it but my t tells me when I sound like my mother, and he REALLY hates it when I tell him HE sounds like my mother. We've made it into kind of a joke now, but the first few times were AWFUL. awful, awful, awful!! Only took 7 years to be able to laugh about it - that's all

7 years ACK. Mothers...........

Originally Posted by Anne2.0

I am sorry, I didn't mean to imply I had some kind of special knowledge about your T. My guess is that she's more willing to self disclose (including giving her address) because she trusts that you're not going to come to her house and peek in her windows. If you had a different kind of issue, like you were constantly asking her questions about her life, she would put up those boundaries faster than you could blink.

The phone thing was a one time occurrence, right? I don't think it was about you, I think it was about her, and that she needed to get something accomplished during your session and didn't have any choice about it (but to cancel, I suppose).

But if you think that T is blurring these boundaries in different ways and more frequently, then that's probably also about her rather than you. It may be that if you don't speak up about what makes you uncomfortable, then others, including T's, may be more likely to continue doing it. And it's difficult, IMO, to argue that they "should know" that it makes you uncomfortable unless you say so.

I'd really like to see you take the next step from your posting, and let your T know what's on your mind. I think it would be really good for you to break out of feeling like you can't tell her what's true for you.

This is really helpful to me on many levels, thank you
Telling t how I feel about her is a big step for me. I don't know if I can do it right away but I can certainly work towards it. She does blur boundaries and I get confused and even getting suspicious of her contstant asking questions about people and where I go.

[ultramar]

I don't mean this as a criticism, but a general observation that may be helpful: I've noticed that after posting something positive about your therapist (I think a recent one was about hugs and how good you feel with her), you tend to follow it with a negative post about her, full of concerns and suspicions (not to say that these aren't well-founded, I don't know).

I could be off, but I've noticed a pattern. Do you think you get scared when you feel especially close to her, when you're feeling that you trust her and then feel a need to find something negative about her to feel safer? Do you think you -subconsciously- pull back after feeling close in order to protect yourself?

You seem consistently reluctant to bring up your concerns with her and I think this may contribute to perpetuating the pattern. If you could discuss these things and clear the air, I think it would help to end the pattern, but maybe you don't address them because you're afraid of giving up this self-protective mechanism?

[confused and dazed]

[quote=wotchermuggle;3052738 My T has strong boundaries on some things, and flexible boundaries on other things./quote]

Sorry, not good at quoting!

This sounds like my T.
As for the phone, one day we heard a phone ringing, he was waiting for me to turn "my phone" off, until I mentioned to him I didn't bring it. He kinda turned red and said "sorry, I thought I had turned it off" and then tried to find it. (he forgot where he put it). That was the only time his phone has rung! I thought it was funny!

Originally Posted by ultramar

I don't mean this as a criticism, but a general observation that may be helpful: I've noticed that after posting something positive about your therapist (I think a recent one was about hugs and how good you feel with her), you tend to follow it with a negative post about her, full of concerns and suspicions (not to say that these aren't well-founded, I don't know).

I could be off, but I've noticed a pattern. Do you think you get scared when you feel especially close to her, when you're feeling that you trust her and then feel a need to find something negative about her to feel safer? Do you think you -subconsciously- pull back after feeling close in order to protect yourself?

It
You seem consistently reluctant to bring up your concerns with her and I think this may contribute to perpetuating the pattern. If you could discuss these things and clear the air, I think it would help to end the pattern, but maybe you don't address them because you're afraid of giving up this self-protective mechanism?

It is actually a very good observation Ultramar. You are correct, this is exactly what I do but I dont know why, maybe you could be right but I do get afraid if I get too close to anyone.