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  #51  
Old Jun 25, 2013, 06:33 PM
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Early human Early human is offline
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Originally Posted by dizgirl2011 View Post
Hi,

It sounds like you are dealing with a lot of pain, understandably so. I think you were very brave to tell her how you felt, that can't have been easy but your bravery was not rewarded with the response you needed, which was being understood.
I can only guess at what she was feeling but it sounds like she re-acted rather than responded and let her emotions take over.

10 years is a significant period of time in therapy and it seems like she was able to be of good support during that time, which makes the fact it has ended this way almost harder to deal with.

Don't punish yourself by cutting yourself off from support. If you have no one else to talk to, please consider seeing another therapist. Even on a short term basis to help you with this issue. You are in control of what you disclose to them but it may be good to just have that confidential space to talk to someone about this.
Yes, I can be stubborn. But, I fear being viewed as a emotional weakling (which I probably am) by my family and friends if I started up with another T after being in therapy for 10 years especially in light of the fact that they don't and will never know that I was dumped due to transference. I know that's not a good reason. I may seek out a PHD. or MD at some point. Thank you so much for your helpful comment.

Last edited by Early human; Jun 25, 2013 at 07:59 PM. Reason: Poor choice of word

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  #52  
Old Jun 25, 2013, 08:38 PM
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scorpiosis37 scorpiosis37 is offline
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Originally Posted by monalisasmile View Post
Oh my god, and were the hugs for long? This is very poor judgement and behaviour on her part. Of course you would get aroused and I am shocked at her encouraging it. You did nothing wrong. Your ts behaviour is appalling.
Hugs are only supposed to be shoulder to shoulder (no breasts) and very brief .
I am sorry this happened to you Early
Do you plan on reporting her for terminating over this? I do believe she was very unethical here and you suffered
I fully agree that your T acted unprofessionally by terminating you after you disclosed your transference. A well-trained T should be able to work through the transference.

I hope that you will consider looking for another T at some point, if you would like further counseling to talk about your transference, about your son's death, or any other topics you may want to discuss. Perhaps a male T would be a good option for you, to avoid the possibility of future transference? That would also give you a legitimate reason to tell your wife and friends as to why you are seeking a new T; you could say that there are issues you would prefer to discuss with another man, or you think a male perspective would be more helpful to you.

Did your T know about your transference for her prior to initiating the hugs? If not, I don't see anything wrong with the hugs. I doubt she knew in advance that the hugs would inspire those kinds of feelings in you. I don't think there is any "rule" about how hugs between T and client should be. There are probably as many different opinions on that as there are different Ts and clients. My T and I give each other full hugs. I've never really thought about the whole "breast" issue, but I suppose they are inevitably involved. I think, as women, we probably give less thought to the whole breast issue than a man might (though I am a lesbian and my T is bi). But, since I don't have transference for my T (or the other people in my life I give full hugs to), they have never felt inappropriate. In my view, a "real" hug involves putting your arms all the way around the other person, and squeezing. The shoulder-to-shoulder thing would feel awkward and inauthentic to me, and I wouldn't like it if T hugged me that way. I think it's about what feels comfortable to both parties. In this situation, you felt uncomfortable, and I think that's the problem (not the hug itself). The issue happened here when you expressed your valid discomfort to your T, and she wasn't able to handle the situation professionally and work through your transference. Other Ts DO have those skills; I'm sorry your T did not. I hope that you will have a better experience in the future if you choose to seek therapy again.
Thanks for this!
Early human, unaluna
  #53  
Old Jun 25, 2013, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by scorpiosis37 View Post
I fully agree that your T acted unprofessionally by terminating you after you disclosed your transference. A well-trained T should be able to work through the transference.

I hope that you will consider looking for another T at some point, if you would like further counseling to talk about your transference, about your son's death, or any other topics you may want to discuss. Perhaps a male T would be a good option for you, to avoid the possibility of future transference? That would also give you a legitimate reason to tell your wife and friends as to why you are seeking a new T; you could say that there are issues you would prefer to discuss with another man, or you think a male perspective would be more helpful to you.

Did your T know about your transference for her prior to initiating the hugs? If not, I don't see anything wrong with the hugs. I doubt she knew in advance that the hugs would inspire those kinds of feelings in you. I don't think there is any "rule" about how hugs between T and client should be. There are probably as many different opinions on that as there are different Ts and clients. My T and I give each other full hugs. I've never really thought about the whole "breast" issue, but I suppose they are inevitably involved. I think, as women, we probably give less thought to the whole breast issue than a man might (though I am a lesbian and my T is bi). But, since I don't have transference for my T (or the other people in my life I give full hugs to), they have never felt inappropriate. In my view, a "real" hug involves putting your arms all the way around the other person, and squeezing. The shoulder-to-shoulder thing would feel awkward and inauthentic to me, and I wouldn't like it if T hugged me that way. I think it's about what feels comfortable to both parties. In this situation, you felt uncomfortable, and I think that's the problem (not the hug itself). The issue happened here when you expressed your valid discomfort to your T, and she wasn't able to handle the situation professionally and work through your transference. Other Ts DO have those skills; I'm sorry your T did not. I hope that you will have a better experience in the future if you choose to seek therapy again.
If my T didn't notice the transference she should've. I would tell her that she 'was my goddess'. I frequently told her she beautiful. Once as she blew her nose during our session and I told her 'you are even cute when you blow your nose', she thanked me for the comment. I frequently commented on her clothes saying, 'you always look so nice' and she would preen, thank me and eat it up. She always thanked me when I expressed my admiration of her appearance. Her hugs were very seductive to me. She would give me a full frontal hug, arms wrapped tightly around my torso with her torso and breasts pressed tightly onto my body. It was over powering. Following one of these hugs I told her that I hope that I get to kiss her someday. When I reminded her of that comment she said she thought I was kidding. I used to ask her if she was 'keeping score' of transference things I was 'committing'. But, those hugs (to die for) kept on coming. It was only when I clearly told her how I was 'stuck' on her and it was a disturbing problem for me that she became indignant and admonished me that our therapeutical relationship should end. She then viewed the situation as a potential embarrassment to her because then knew I had been 'hurt' by it and she knew that she contributed to it. She just wanted me gone! I think her actions were based on poor judgement and many of the things that I said going right over her head. Although she really is a very smart & otherwise talented therapist.
  #54  
Old Jun 25, 2013, 11:29 PM
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Early human Early human is offline
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I believe that the type of hugs that she gave me, as previously described, were inappropriate, especially in that I had been telling her all along that I thought she was, cute, beautiful, attractive, my goddess.....! I believe that type of hug was over the top even it hadn't escalated my transference issue. I admit that I loved getting them; and would tell her that. I am now messed up, virtually useless to my family recently and if my family didn't need me so much I would want to 'fade away'.
Hugs from:
anonymous91213
  #55  
Old Jun 26, 2013, 08:28 AM
iGottaBme iGottaBme is offline
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Originally Posted by Early human View Post
Yes, I can be stubborn. But, I fear being viewed as a emotional weakling (which I probably am) by my family and friends if I started up with another T after being in therapy for 10 years especially in light of the fact that they don't and will never know that I was dumped due to transference. I know that's not a good reason. I may seek out a PHD. or MD at some point. Thank you so much for your helpful comment.
I was in therapy for ten years too before it ending badly and went on to see another T. There was shame and embarrassment to admit that I still needed more therapy. For me, my former LCSW t helped me in a lot of ways but he was not trained or interested in doing trauma work which I needed. In other walks of life, we may hire someone to do work and they take it as far as they can with their skillset and then we may need to bring in someone else to add the final touches. For some of us, therapy works the same way.
Thanks for this!
Early human
  #56  
Old Jun 26, 2013, 08:50 AM
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gaia67 gaia67 is offline
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Ugh, I'm so sorry that happened to you. I hear sometimes about Ts doing this, but I never understood why they would. Seems like a weakness on the T's place.
Thanks for this!
Early human
  #57  
Old Jun 26, 2013, 09:44 AM
anonymous91213
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Originally Posted by Early human View Post
If my T didn't notice the transference she should've. I would tell her that she 'was my goddess'. I frequently told her she beautiful. Once as she blew her nose during our session and I told her 'you are even cute when you blow your nose', she thanked me for the comment. I frequently commented on her clothes saying, 'you always look so nice' and she would preen, thank me and eat it up. She always thanked me when I expressed my admiration of her appearance. Her hugs were very seductive to me. She would give me a full frontal hug, arms wrapped tightly around my torso with her torso and breasts pressed tightly onto my body. It was over powering. Following one of these hugs I told her that I hope that I get to kiss her someday. When I reminded her of that comment she said she thought I was kidding. I used to ask her if she was 'keeping score' of transference things I was 'committing'. But, those hugs (to die for) kept on coming. It was only when I clearly told her how I was 'stuck' on her and it was a disturbing problem for me that she became indignant and admonished me that our therapeutical relationship should end. She then viewed the situation as a potential embarrassment to her because then knew I had been 'hurt' by it and she knew that she contributed to it. She just wanted me gone! I think her actions were based on poor judgement and many of the things that I said going right over her head. Although she really is a very smart & otherwise talented therapist.
It sounds inappropriate for her to have initiated the full frontal hugs. it also sounds like she was feeling sexual feeling s for you and realized that there was nothing she could or wanted to do about it.. very unprofessional of her. 10 years is a long time to know someone as they know both intimately as well as personally.I'm sorry you had to be treated in such a way that you feel it was your fault. She lured you into her web and she put her profession on hold
warm thoughts to you
Thanks for this!
Early human
  #58  
Old Jun 26, 2013, 01:00 PM
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peaches100 peaches100 is offline
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I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I can imagine how devastated you feel!

I'm with the rest -- your t handled this badly! And I'm pretty surprised that after 10 years of working with her, she was so quick to say that therapy "wasn't going to work" anymore. Obviously, transference can be a hindrance if it isn't worked through, or if it is so pronounced that you can't concentrate on your own issues in therapy sessions because all you can think about is her. But many therapists view transference as part of the therapy work, "grist for the mill," so to speak.

I think it would have been much more beneficial for your therapist to acknowledge the transference and offer to help you work through it. It's odd to me that she would so suddenly terminate a long-term therapy like this.

I suspect that after you talked to her about it, she realized she had made a mistake by offering you hugs. She may be worried that her poor judgement impeded your progress and/or that you might even report her to a therapy board. It sounds like you didn't have any plans to do that though. But maybe that was her concern. . .

The other possibility is that she realized she had feelings for you as well, and if she could not continue to be objective, the only ethical thing to do would be to refer you to a different therapist. However, even when a therapist decides to terminate therapy with a patient, it is customary to set aside a few sessions to discuss and process the ending of therapy. So this is certainly not typical. . .

I guess if it was me, I'd contact her and clarify a few things. Why did she suddenly decide to terminate when the two of you had been working together 10 years successfully? Why can't the two of you work through your transference feelings in therapy, as many other therapists do with their patients? Why wouldn't it work? And if it is true that it would not work and termination is necessary, why didn't she offer a few sessions to wind down therapy and prepare you for termination first? Why didn't she offer you some referrals?

Something doesn't make sense to me.
Thanks for this!
Early human
  #59  
Old Jun 26, 2013, 01:04 PM
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peaches100 peaches100 is offline
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PS - In addition, I would let her know that you feel very disapointed, hurt, and abandoned. . .that it took bravery to tell her how you felt. . . and that you did so -- not to create problems or with any expectation of a romantic relationship with her -- but with the hope that she would help you deal with these feelings successfully.

If she can't do that, then as sad as it is, you would be much better off with a different therapist - one who understands and can deal successfully with transference issues.

THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT!
Thanks for this!
Early human
  #60  
Old Jun 26, 2013, 01:55 PM
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This happened to me as well. I was in therapy with a psychologist when I was in my mid 30s. I very timidly mentioned this issue of transference to him, and he abruptly ended our therapy in the next session. There was absolutely no discussion of romantic feelings from my part or his, just how I had come to depend on his insights in a way that may have been too dependent in his mind. It left me feeling really bad and somehow at fault, so I can identify with your feelings about this situation. I have to admit that it left me feeling rather cynical and jaded about the whole issue of therapy. I did visit other therapists thereafter, but I was much more guarded and less forth-coming in my relationships with them.
  #61  
Old Jun 26, 2013, 06:38 PM
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Early human Early human is offline
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Originally Posted by peaches100 View Post
I'm so sorry this has happened to you. I can imagine how devastated you feel!

I'm with the rest -- your t handled this badly! And I'm pretty surprised that after 10 years of working with her, she was so quick to say that therapy "wasn't going to work" anymore. Obviously, transference can be a hindrance if it isn't worked through, or if it is so pronounced that you can't concentrate on your own issues in therapy sessions because all you can think about is her. But many therapists view transference as part of the therapy work, "grist for the mill," so to speak.

I think it would have been much more beneficial for your therapist to acknowledge the transference and offer to help you work through it. It's odd to me that she would so suddenly terminate a long-term therapy like this.

I suspect that after you talked to her about it, she realized she had made a mistake by offering you hugs. She may be worried that her poor judgement impeded your progress and/or that you might even report her to a therapy board. It sounds like you didn't have any plans to do that though. But maybe that was her concern. . .

The other possibility is that she realized she had feelings for you as well, and if she could not continue to be objective, the only ethical thing to do would be to refer you to a different therapist. However, even when a therapist decides to terminate therapy with a patient, it is customary to set aside a few sessions to discuss and process the ending of therapy. So this is certainly not typical. . .

I guess if it was me, I'd contact her and clarify a few things. Why did she suddenly decide to terminate when the two of you had been working together 10 years successfully? Why can't the two of you work through your transference feelings in therapy, as many other therapists do with their patients? Why wouldn't it work? And if it is true that it would not work and termination is necessary, why didn't she offer a few sessions to wind down therapy and prepare you for termination first? Why didn't she offer you some referrals?

Something doesn't make sense to me.
I actually did exactly what you suggested. I wrote her a letter. In it I asked why she thought that I couldn't deal with the trans when she saw me make progress with far more insurmountable issues such as my son's death and my progress with depression and anxiety. I told her that the hugs are what derailed me in that I had otherwise kept my feelings for her at bay until the hugs caused my obsession and with her. I told her that I read up on 'it' and that she should have worked with me and not abandoned me. To be fair; I left a message on her voice mail after our last session saying that 'I was not coming back' because she had so much as told me that I was getting dumped. I couldn't bear to sit in her office listening to her disingenuous justification for her behavior while admonishing me for the problem. And all the while I would be knowing that this (now cancelled) session was a facade to make the inevitable abandonment seem legitimate. Her disingenuous stance and dishonesty at our last session cut me deep and any additional exposure to that would make it worse for me. Thanks for your thoughtful comment.

Last edited by Early human; Jun 26, 2013 at 06:43 PM. Reason: wrong wording
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  #62  
Old Jun 26, 2013, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Early human View Post
I actually did exactly what you suggested. I wrote her a letter. In it I asked why she thought that I couldn't deal with the trans when she saw me make progress with far more insurmountable issues such as my son's death and my progress with depression and anxiety. I told her that the hugs are what derailed me in that I had otherwise kept my feelings for her at bay until the hugs caused my obsession and with her. I told her that I read up on 'it' and that she should have worked with me and not abandoned me. To be fair; I left a message on her voice mail after our last session saying that 'I was not coming back' because she had so much as told me that I was getting dumped. I couldn't bear to sit in her office listening to her disingenuous justification for her behavior while admonishing me for the problem. And all the while I would be knowing that this (now cancelled) session was a facade to make the inevitable abandonment seem legitimate. Her disingenuous stance and dishonesty at our last session cut me deep and any additional exposure to that would make it worse for me. Thanks for your thoughtful comment.
My heart genuinely goes out to you. I know what it feels like to be left (for different reasons) and the hurt it leaves you with. You will be stronger and better as you work through this. Don't be afraid to reach out to someone else. You don't have to tell anyone you're changing therapists....don't put yourself in isolation. Trust me, it makes things worse.
Thanks for this!
Early human
  #63  
Old Jun 27, 2013, 12:29 PM
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I think it is a hurtful betrayal when the T plays down the clients issues or suddenly declares them resolved in order to 'grease the skids' to set up the 'dump' or abandonment. Especially when the T was the cause of the otherwise manageable transference becoming a big problem that I needed to talk about to help resolve it. She crossed the boundary line not me. I am so pissed. I apologize for harping on this, but I am consumed and very distracted by this. And the way I feel now is that I can't resolve it unless she is the one to help me, but I'll never see her again.
  #64  
Old Jun 27, 2013, 01:18 PM
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wotchermuggle wotchermuggle is offline
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Originally Posted by Early human View Post
I think it is a hurtful betrayal when the T plays down the clients issues or suddenly declares them resolved in order to 'grease the skids' to set up the 'dump' or abandonment. Especially when the T was the cause of the otherwise manageable transference becoming a big problem that I needed to talk about to help resolve it. She crossed the boundary line not me. I am so pissed. I apologize for harping on this, but I am consumed and very distracted by this. And the way I feel now is that I can't resolve it unless she is the one to help me, but I'll never see her again.
You can work through it with someone else. You're right that in some ways, you feel like certain stuff doesn't get hashed out because you're not talking to that person, but you can do a LOT of healing by talking to someone else about this. Trust me. I've been there and done that. It won't be the same as talking it through and getting through with your original therapist, you're right. But you can still find healing.
Thanks for this!
Early human
  #65  
Old Jun 27, 2013, 04:48 PM
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Early human Early human is offline
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Originally Posted by wotchermuggle View Post
You can work through it with someone else. You're right that in some ways, you feel like certain stuff doesn't get hashed out because you're not talking to that person, but you can do a LOT of healing by talking to someone else about this. Trust me. I've been there and done that. It won't be the same as talking it through and getting through with your original therapist, you're right. But you can still find healing.
Thanks you for your comment, it is comforting that I can communicate with you and other members. Maybe at sometime I may feel that I can talk it out with another T, because there is no friend or family member that I can talk to about it One of my best friends recently told me that I can get over the loss of my son without a 'shrink'. He's well meaning, but clueless. My T did help me with that and other issues. I find I can't talk to my brother for similar reasons. And my wife and daughter would have a meltdown if O told them about the 'hugging' and my reaction to it. I may talk to another T, but I won't trust him as far as I can throw him. And it will be a man; but, I would settle for a woman that's at least in her 80's. Thank you so much for your concern!
  #66  
Old Aug 23, 2013, 08:31 PM
freudlives freudlives is offline
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Originally Posted by iGottaBme View Post
I was in therapy for ten years too before it ending badly and went on to see another T. There was shame and embarrassment to admit that I still needed more therapy. For me, my former LCSW t helped me in a lot of ways but he was not trained or interested in doing trauma work which I needed. In other walks of life, we may hire someone to do work and they take it as far as they can with their skillset and then we may need to bring in someone else to add the final touches. For some of us, therapy works the same way.
one therapist ten years? you were with someone who did not know how to effectively counsel...
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