Too much

I'm sorry, but this is going to be Pfrog's last post pertaining to this ... It's too shocking and triggering for me.

Before I go, though ...

I'm glad you called your therapist, but you (and she) both know that Xanax and Valium are NOT going to fix this.

I read in the papers every day where women and kids get wounded, maimed and killed by their abusive boyfriends, husbands and partners.

I sincerely hope you are not the next statistic ... But, that's up to you.

It isn't easy, but it is doable, and you've got to do it in a way where he can never find you or your kids ever again.

I'm truly sorry you have found yourself in this mess, it boggles my mind that abusers can hold so much power and sway over their victims.

I will keep you and your children in my thoughts and prayers.

Just remember ... YOU are the reason domestic violence centers are there ... They will help you get away, help you with housing, food, clothing, medical needs ... Your children's education ... Will help you get a new identity and relocate if necessary ... Will be your advocate through the legal system ... Will help you find a job even teaching you skills if necessary ... Please don't let your abuser play with your mind ... Be YOUR & YOUR KIDS HERO ... Do it today! ... Tomorrow may be too late!

Sincerely,
Pfrog!

What brought the cops into this, then?

I am just going to say this, men can lose careers over restraining orders!

If you aren't 'typical' and everything is fine with your family and children, what brought the police involvement and how did you come to get a restraining order?

Did you spend the entire day in court, getting one!? I did, twice and they didn't hold them!!! He had lawyers involved.

Honestly...I am a little triggered, because there are those in society that NEED these and when women go and drop them, it makes life harder on everyone else!!!

I called the cops because we had a fight, I was pissed and he wouldn't leave. I admitted to the cops that he had hit me and they saw the bruises and marks on my face. I didn't fill out a statement and told them I changed my mind I didn't want to do anything, I just wanted him to leave and he did before they got there. The next day I called them and asked them not to pursue it but they told me it wasn't up to me.

He was arrested and released on conditions. There is a protective order out preventing him from coming near me, the house, my car or my work. I did not ask for this but they did it any way. He goes to court tomorrow and I'm doing everything I can to try and help him.

wow all i can say again i pray someone does the right thing and takes the kids so they will be protected as you refuse to do anything to keep them safe .in fact are thinking of only what will make you feel better .it isn't courageous to try and keep things good between you and your ABUSER at all costs or to work thinge out . it is selfish because it is only to avoid feeling the way you do now ,and to heck with the safety of the children. you may think you are not typical but believe me you are very typical of a person enabling her abuser and not caring to do anything about the situation or to help the kids .it is very self serving and very typical. god i so wish some child protective services of some sort knew how you are going to try and drop the restraining order and stuff .i bet that is being kept from them at all costs .isn't it .

Just last week you wanted to quit therapy because everything was ok, it is not ok, you are on crisis and need help . I agree with Pfrog no one deserves to be hit, ever! I know your t suggested calling a help line but maybe because it wasn't her rejecting you but because they are especially trained to help with your situation and she probably though it would be of more help than she could offer you at the time. I hope you can reach out to someone

Her kids are NOT fine and they DO know about the abuse. She mentioned somewhere else that her H threw a fan at her and it bounced off and one of the children was sitting next to her. Her statements now that the kids are always in bed are ******** and an excuse not to suck it up and do what she needs to protect the children. She is prioritizing her needs and her fears ahead of what she needs to do to protect the children. Just so you know and we're all clear on what is actually happening.

The blame should go squarely to the ABUSER - where it belongs. It does no good to throw more stones at the person being abused, as though what they are going through is not traumatic in the least and that they can think straight.

There is a reason that women return to abusers an average of 7 times, or something like that. It's the norm and does not mean the woman doesn't care about her kids or herself. It's complex and there have been many books written about the entire dynamic.

Having been in that dynamic and seeing in my work the effects on children, I have no sympathy or tolerance for those who ignore the needs of their children, and worse, pretend like it has no effect on their children. I understand the excuses some people make, but I don't buy them.

You are sounding mighty judgmental. I'm glad you were able to work through your situation in a way that you think was right, but it is very hurtful to come on here with no sympathy or tolerance for someone who you don't even know. I really think if we can't share concerns in a loving way, then we should stay off of those threads.

You don't know her situation, her background, her support network or lack thereof, etc. etc. etc. This is not a safe place anymore when we start bashing people for their "right" or "wrong" decisions and for what is going on in their lives at the moment. None of us are perfect.

I was not initially bashing her judgment, I was pointing out she was misrepresenting the situation by pretending as if her children were unaware of the abuse.

You are probably correct that I should stay off these threads because when people act as if it may be the "right" decision to leave children in a situation like this, I do not react well. Handling one case in which a child died because his mother was unwilling to leave her abuser and growing up in a situation where a parent would not protect me from my abuser has left me ... scarred and less than tolerant for those who make excuse after excuse for themselves and their abusers at the expense of their children.

This is not a safe haven for abusers. It's for survivors of abuse. And again I ask, why is this being posted in the psychotherapy forum instead of relationships or survivors of abuse? Should this be reported?

I'm sorry for your past and for the aftermath of the abuse you've witnessed professionally or otherwise. I've also had my own issues that could be considered somewhat related, but I would rather not share at the moment.

I do believe that if there is physical violence and children are involved, it is best to leave for safety of BOTH the abused woman/man and child (ren). But I don't pretend that it is so simple. Women are more likely to be killed at the time of trying to escape than at any other time in the relationship.

And there is a lack of support out there, despite what well meaning shelters and advocates might try and say. Once you are out, you are fending for yourself and restraining orders do not always protect as they should.

I'm not trying to support leaving children in violent situations as though there is nothing wrong with it. But I am trying to support the OP because it sounds like that is what she needs right now. Someone who cares and wants to listen and help her. Not for us who, however well-intentioned, may only end up adding to her abusers heaping pile of crap by telling her what to do, how to do it, how bad of a person she is for not doing what she should be doing, etc.

I know this might be the initial instinctive reaction when hearing about a situation such as this, but all I am saying is that it does not help. It will not make her "wake up" and just leave already. And that is actually quite sad

It's much more complex than that.

I don't think she is abusive. She is being abused. Maybe this should be in a different forum (?)

Freewilled, sometimes here are decisions in life that are just objectively wrong. I do not think it is "supportive" to pretend otherwise and it helps no one in the long run to try to make the OP feel better about her choices and her failure to act. I know that it is neither easy nor uncomplicated. I do think it is abusive to fail to protect the children. In my opinion. And the excuses as simply unacceptable and again it helps no one to just accept those excuses or pretend they are valid excuses. It is NOT SUPPORTIVE to not point out the truth or facts she has stated in other posts that she then denies here. When the safety of children are at issue, I think we have a moral obligation to keep trying to get the OP to protect them. Again, in my opinion. And I wish these things were not in this forum. I avoid the abuse forum for a reason.

I understand what you are saying, I just don't believe that I am doing what you say. I never said not to address the safety of the children. I said that trying to get the OP to protect them by verbally berating her was not going to be helpful. That's just my opinion. I felt a strong need to stand up for the OP and express myself and hope no one was offended. Nonetheless, I feel it is a very important topic to me and I had to say what I had to say. I guess we will just have to agree to disagree.

I do not believe that pointing out the previous statement the OP had made about the child being present during the abuse versus the current misrepresentation that the kids are unaware of the abuse as an attempt to excuse doing nothing counts as verbally berating the OP.

It seems to me this thread has way veered off what the OP was asking and turned into some sort of accusatory domestic violence debate.

OP (if you by chance are still reading this thread) - I don't really know the feeling you are describing but it also does not seem unusual. It would seem to me that trying grounding techniques (deep breathing, guided imagery, yoga etc) could be a place to start in terms of quelling the feeling of being overwhelmed - at least until you can give a small amount of focus on the specifics of getting through the day - just one step at a time. I realize this also might sound like patching up a levee breach with a single sandbag. But it could be that just taking things as one step (I just have to get food for breakfast, or I just have to do one thing and do it, and then pick one more thing - and do it) could possibly help get you through to the next appointment where perhaps the therapist will be more useful than they have sounded (to me - I could be wrong) up to this point.
Also, it could be useful if you have friends or family or trusted acquaintance already lined up in case you feel more unhinged - as to where either you and children or just children could go and you would know they are being taken care of while you take care of yourself. I think it would be better to get that lined up earlier rather than when you actually need it. Kind of like having the emergency earthquake kit ready and hope to not use it rather than trying to locate supplies after the earthquake hits.

jkbob, you do realize that when everything comes out in a final blow up, you will lose your kids because of your actions? If you do not care for them now, you will be deemed unable to care for them later. It's a choice where, for you, neither side is very easy/comfortable; do you help him and have the mess continue and get worse until it finally blows up in your face or do you help the children by caring for yourself and thus, for them. They cannot live in an adult world where the adults are battered/battering. And, presumably if your husband ends up in jail and you are shown to not have cared for the children now, by trying to care for/help him, the "stronger"/batterer, you will be shown as incompetent to care for them, then because you will be shown to have been too "weak."

A levee breach. A levi breach is when my pants split, and one sandbag is still enough tg.

Eta: sorry. You know humor is my defensive coping mechanism.

Jkbob- I think Perna, and others, have already given you some great insight and perspective on your situation. I do recognize how difficult it is to leave an abusive relationship (I was in one when I was younger; we did not have children). I really feel for what you are going through; it's incredibly difficult and scary to walk away from that situation, and to regain a sense of self-esteem and to truly believe that you do deserve better. Maybe you do not feel ready to walk away. However, it is imperative that you get your children out of that situation-- even if that means that you will be separated from your children for a little while. Even if you feel that you do not see the signs or your children seem happy, your children are being exposed to an abusive relationship and they are learning that this is normal. If you've ever looked at the statistics, children who grew up in abusive homes are infinitely more likely to be abusers or to be with abusers when they get older. They are also much, much more likely to have behavior problems in school, do worse academically, turn to drugs and alcohol, etc. Growing up in an abusive home also changes who children would have become. It changes their personality, it takes away their sense of safety, and they often think that it is THEIR fault. They think that if they were better children, then daddy would not have to hit mommy. Moreover, even if you have never seen your husband be abusive TO your children, it may be happening when you are not around, or it may only be a matter of time before it begins. Abusers usually abuse not only their wife, but their children, too. While the circumstances were different, I grew up in a home with abuse from ages 3-10, and it definitely affected me (even though all of the adults THOUGHT it didn't because i put a smile on my face and got good grades. they still deny it, or say "we did the best we could; we didn't know better"). The things is that, as adults, we HAVE to do better for our children. It is our one and only job to protect them, and give them a better shot at life than what we were given. If I hadn't had abuse in my home growing up, do you think I would have allowed myself to enter into an abusive relationship? I probably wouldn't have thought that I "deserved it," or that it was "normal" and "okay." The thing is that almost all of the women who get into abusive relationships saw their parents (or other adults) in those relationships growing up. You really have to think about whether or not that is what you want for your daughter(s), in their future. Do you want them to think that's what they deserve? Because, I have to tell you, from experience, that is the message that you are sending to them when they see that happen to you. So, I think there are 2 issues going on here. One, is that you need to decide what you are going to do for you. Two, is that you have to decide what you are going to do for your children. If you feel that you don't have the strength to leave yourself, you have to find a plan to get your kids out of the house and with a safe family member or friend. I can tell you that, even though everyone in my life thought I was "fine" in my house or "better off" being with my parents, I WISH I had been allowed to go and live with my grandparents, or somewhere else that was safe. If a child's parents aren't able to give them a safe home, it really is better for the kids that they go somewhere safe. If you are struggling to just keep your head above water right now, maybe it's best for you to have a little time on your own to sort through what you want to do next. If you feel that the therapy you are getting right now isn't enough, maybe you might want to consider more intensive treatment, like a day program or a week of inpatient? Or maybe you would benefit from visiting a close friend or family member, and talking your situation through with them? I don't know what would be helpful for you right now, but I'm suggesting these things because you have not expressed that you are ready to leave your abuser, and I think there are a lot of resources and options out there that might help you. I know that you are in an incredibly difficult situation, and I hope that you get help and I hope that your children will have a safe environment to grow up in.

Nevermind.

It seems to me that jkbob has made it quite clear that she is committed to her denial, to a portrait of her life that enables her to be okay with not feeling ready or able to make a change, either for herself or her children. For whatever reason, which I hope she is able to explore with her T, she needs to maintain that things are better for her and her kids when she's living with what many of us here perceive to be an abusive spouse. No amount of rational argument, explanation, or haranguing will budge her until she's ready.

This is clearly frustrating and/or triggering to many here who have witnessed or experienced the pain of being a child trapped in a circumstance they can neither control nor escape. Knowing that there are alternatives for jkbob and her kids, and seeing that she is not ready to seek those alternatives, evokes a painful helplessness in many of us. Thus, the impatience and seeming harshness of some of the posts. Criticism of those who have reacted that way is just as unhelpful as criticizing jkbob; we are all here doing our best to seek help and commiseration, and not speaking up would feel to many that they were not protecting their own injured selves. Compassion for both "sides" is so important when we are talking about such sensitive things.

jkbob, I hope you find your way through this. I hope you can find whatever resources you need to protect yourself and your kids, and even to help your husband find help with his rage and violence. If and when you are ready to make a change, you will no doubt experience an outpouring of support and love on this forum, and in real life, to help carry you through.

i guess even here we need to keep quiet and supportive when we see children being harmed .isn't anyone tired of that kind of thing. if just once someone cared about my well being as a child instead of the mothers my life might have been very different.i guess if i want people to care about me and offer support on any posts i might need in the future .and i am not looked at as evil i guess once again i need to be quiet and ignore and be supportive of the mother at the cost of the children but i guess that is the norm in this world. even here .i really am sorry to op for commenting and not supporting her cause to stay with this man .at all costs i really am. god it is just so sad.

I don't understand. I never advocated for children to be hurt! The op is being abused, most likely suffering from a mental illness as most all of us here are as well, and is not necessarily thinking straight (I must admit I'm not always thinking straight either...). How come when I posted on here about how I was hurt by my mother's mental illness way back when, people seemed to defend her like she couldn't help it she was suffering from a mental illness?

I don't understand the double-standard.

I feel like wherever I go, my pov is singled out as being wrong. I'm sick of it.

Of course I don't want the op to stay and be abused for her own sake and the sake of the kids. I also didn't want to just stand by and watch when others implied or straight out told her she is making excuses, spouting out ********, and basically cares nothing for her kids (but see now that i guess i should have kept my mouth shut)...So sue me.

It is quite a tightrope walk to simultaneously support a victim of domestic violence who is not taking steps to extricate herself from the relationship and advocate protecting the children.

The victim of domestic violence as well as the children are victims. The difference is that the adult victim has it in her power to protect the children (however awful the situation, however overwhelmed the person may be) whereas the children do not have it within their power to protect themselves. They do not, truly, have agency in this situation; the adult does. The children truly are entirely helpless in this situation, the adult (though facing enormous challenges) is not entirely helpless.