[Miswimmy1]

So I saw my t today for the first time in a couple weeks, the longest time I've gone without seeing or being in contact with a therapist. I was very apprehensive for this vacation. The session did not go very well. A couple things specifically stood out to me... Thought I would get some of your input.

The first thing was that she didn't ask me how I was. She didn't ask how things went while she was gone. I had told her that I was nervous for this vacation. Not even an acknowledgement of, "Was it really as bad as you thought it would be?" or anything. Just dove right into the session with no mention of her absence. That bothered me.

The other thing that bothered me was the conversation about emailing. She had told me that she wasn't probably going to be able to email or call while she was away, which I was fine with. But she didn't say that it was off limits. So I did email her on a couple occasions over the past couple weeks, not expecting a response, but just because I had some things that I wanted to tell someone and get out onto paper. The way she brought it up was, "You know how I basically told everyone that unless there was an emergency, to just forget emailing or calling me because I was on vacation? Well I got swamped with emails and calls, to the point where I felt very oppositional and completely rebelled against email. So I didn't read your emails, so I have no idea what they were about." To that, I just sort of shrugged and said, "I don't really remember what they were about either." To clarify, I did know what they were about, but I didn't feel like we had the time to go over what they said and to have me re explain all of them. I thought she would say something like I'll go back and look for next time, but she said, "Ok then I probably won't ever go back then." Like they weren't important or something because I didn't want to tell her right then and there what they were about. That really unsettled me.

I guess I'm feeling like I am trying to put effort into our relationship, even though it's been difficult given the circumstances. And I feel like she isn't doing a very good job on her end at trying to make it work. As the therapist, I know that she was put into an awkward position with the sudden switch from my old t to her, but she should use that knowledge and know that coming from a very relationship oriented therapist, I was going to need someone a little bit more invested in the therapeutic relationship. I feel like she doesn't make any effort to try and meet my needs- which right now are being able to work up to trusting again so that I can have a good working relationship with her.

I don't know if she is just oblivious to that fact, or if this is some sort of approach that she has, or what, but I am getting tired of trying to do this on my own. I need someone who will work with me. I feel like I have tried to reach out to her, and work with her stricter boundaries and all that. I feel like I've been patient and have cut her a lot of slack, disregarding many other things she has said or done that have felt counterproductive. But I feel like right now, I'm still all alone. And it's been almost 4 months.

[purplejell]

Sorry that you're feeling frustrated and disappointed with your therapist. I've had therapists who were less relationship-oriented... and sometimes it felt kind of like rejection for me.
The other thing I wanted to say is that if she was swamped with phone calls and emails, clearly other people were confused about her boundaries too... and she may not have explained it well. Sorry that it ended up with you feeling let down by her.

[growlycat]

Yeah, if lots of people were trying to contact her either boundaries were not made clear, or she is making a bunch of patients feel insecure in the therapy relationship.

I once had a standoffish T and I should've RUN from that relationship

Ok first off I am so sorry she never asked how her absence was for you. Isn't that like rule #1 after a T is gone?

Also, she never HAD to check her email, but chose to over her vacation (so she never "completely rebelled against it") ...clearly she never asked any of her patients not to email/call her while she was on vacation; this shows confusing boundaries on her part. She also should have left info for a T who was covering for her, someone to act as a backup in case of an emergency. (I know ALL Ts don't do this, but it seems to make good sense to me.)

And she may have felt x and y about getting these calls and emails, but you should not have to feel the burden for 1) Her feelings re: this because of her choices (esp. like I said, she never made her intentions clear re: email/calls while she was gone) 2) The calls and emails made by ALL HER OTHER CLIENTS. (And I would love to know how many emails/calls there really were...)

And so now she takes the easy way out and dismisses your emails...which shows complete lack of respect for your feelings. I wish I saw her trying to connect with you but she def. shows lack of effort. My guess is you are one of many patients...this is probably an issue for her across the board.
Hugs to you, I am so sorry you are in this situation.

[stopdog]

I don't think the therapist has ever asked me how their absence was for me. I don't consider it a necessary thing to ask. It does not sound as though this one is particularly interested in having the same sort of relationship with you that you might want. Is there anything you can get from her (techniques, skills, etc) even without the relationship part? If I recall correctly, she is cbt?
If you don't think you can work with her, then you might have to try to get your parents to let you see another one.

[Littlemeinside]

Did you ask her how her vacation was? Why email and " give her work" when you are not in a crisis. To be honest it seems disrespectful of her time and private life. A relationship is a two way street.

( I don´t mean to sound negative, I just wanted to give you some other kind of input)

Originally Posted by Littlemeinside

Did you ask her how her vacation was? Why email and " give her work" when you are not in a crisis. To be honest it seems disrespectful of her time and private life. A relationship is a two way street.

( I don´t mean to sound negative, I just wanted to give you some other kind of input)

Lots of Ts don't discuss their vacations; that is their personal life...I don't know where mine go (unless they comment), and I don't ask. It's not the client's responsibility to. (Yes I know there are some exceptions and Ts who talk about their vacations with their clients, but its their choice to do so.)
The T never had to read the email, she made a choice to do so. Miswimmy didn't expect a response back; therefore, she never "gave her work."

[Littlemeinside]

Originally Posted by lost_key

Lots of Ts don't discuss their vacations; that is their personal life...I don't know where mine go (unless they comment), and I don't ask. It's not the client's responsibility to. (Yes I know there are some exceptions and Ts who talk about their vacations with their clients, but its their choice to do so.)
The T never had to read the email, she made a choice to do so. Miswimmy didn't expect a response back; therefore, she never "gave her work."

I didn´t mean that the T should talk about the vacation. It´s more a " how are you, I am good and you?" dynamic I was looking for.

I am sure the T didn´t know that she didn´t have to respond. So she had to make a professional decision while on vacation.

I often find that alot of us in here put alot of focus on our T´s, forgetting to look at our own part in the "relationship".

I think it would help to be honest with your T about this.
Let her know that you aren't feeling comfortable with what happened and that you think perhaps she did not make her boundaries clear when she said no email and no calls. I would also tell her that you are a little upset that she did not ask how you were after her long vacation.

Usually it is the T's job to ask how their clients are doing often. Even after each session, they should ask how their client is doing between sessions. I find that very strange that your T did not ask how you were doing. I think if she reacts negatively towards you being honest with her, then it's definitely time for a new T.

Take care!

[Miswimmy1]

Little me, I am very hesitant to ask my t anything about her personal life, because I tried at the beginning of our relationship. Her response, "You shouldn't know anything about your therapist. U know too much about me already." After that, I stopped asking about her. I understand that therapy is a two way street.

I wasn't trying to give her work while she was on vacation. I knew that I wouldn't get a response. But it was the fact that she acknowledged that she had indeed seen that I had sent an email, and even though it she is back from vacation, still refuses to look at it. I didn't expect her to reply or do work on vacation. But she is back now. And I find it odd that she didn't say, "I'll take a look and we can talk it about it next session."

[Littlemeinside]

I was referring to a way of interacting in a " relationship"..( respecting her personal life and not worry that she didn´t ask how you have been. Obviously you didn´t worry about her) The message you send across is " I don´t care about you but you should care about me. It doesn´t work that way.

[Miswimmy1]

That's not fair. I do care about her, but that's beside the point. I'm not asking her to care about me. I'm asking her to do her job.

[Littlemeinside]

Originally Posted by Miswimmy1

That's not fair. I do care about her, but that's beside the point. I'm not asking her to care about me. I'm asking her to do her job.

I am not sure it´s her "job" to read emails from clients when she is on a vacation.

[A Red Panda]

I think the fact that she got so swamped with emails from clients show that she did NOT make her boundaries clear to anyone - so it wasn't just you!

Seeing as you had shown a lot of anxiety about her being gone so long, I am a bit surprised that she didn't ask you how you handled it. It seems like that would have made for a great discussion because you seem to have some attachment issues in regards to your Ts! (I might be over-generalizing there, I'm sorry! Couldn't think of a shorter way to word it!)

Did your subject headings make it clear that they weren't a crisis? If I had wanted my T to read something when they were back so that we could discuss it in session, I'd probably include that in my subject "Read when you're back! " or something.

@Littlemeinside: think Miswimmy is more upset about the fact that her T didn't ask her how she handled the absence, and the fact that the T said she isn't going to read the emails now that she's back - it's dismissive and does feel like her T isn't really doing her job. I don't think miswimmy really cares that theT didn't read or reply to the emails during vacation - she wasn't worried that T hadn't emailed her back while she was away. She would have thought that the T had read them at some point before their session. Also, have you read a lot of miswimmy's posts? Her previous T went overbounds and was TOO personal, so this T has gone the opposite and is quite cold and keeps herself separate. I wouldn't keep asking someone how they were if they were going to tell me it's none of my business every time either!

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Miswimmy1

That's not fair. I do care about her, but that's beside the point. I'm not asking her to care about me. I'm asking her to do her job.

If the emails are so important, print them off and bring them to session. Her job is when she sees you; you dont dictate what her job is concerning you when you're not with her.

The way you say, "I'm asking her to do her job" sounds like you're trying to make sure she's a good enough mother. It's very psychodynamic, very transferential. You shouldn't have to check to make sure she does her job, altho I understand where that's coming from in your personal history. She will fail every test you give her. Your previous t also failed every test - she just seems better in retrospect. But if you look back at your posts, I think you will find you're rewriting history. You always wanted more from her too.

I so get it. I wasn't adopted, but I was badly neglected. I was ignored and insulted and tricked by my family. Discounted. I spent the next many years wondering why my bosses discounted me. Why? Because being discounted had become my world view. I think being neglected has become your world view. Even when people aren't really neglecting you, you will find proof that they are. This is what your ts are trying to change. But it's very hard.

[0w6c379]

Originally Posted by Miswimmy1

Little me, I am very hesitant to ask my t anything about her personal life, because I tried at the beginning of our relationship. Her response, "You shouldn't know anything about your therapist. U know too much about me already." After that, I stopped asking about her. I understand that therapy is a two way street.

I wasn't trying to give her work while she was on vacation. I knew that I wouldn't get a response. But it was the fact that she acknowledged that she had indeed seen that I had sent an email, and even though it she is back from vacation, still refuses to look at it. I didn't expect her to reply or do work on vacation. But she is back now. And I find it odd that she didn't say, "I'll take a look and we can talk it about it next session."

Hey Miswimmy, I would be very disappointed in a response like that from a T. I think she should have offered to read your emails (maybe one a week) now that she's back, to see if there was anything of value to your therapy in them. It's not her responsibility to read while on vacation but you already knew that and didn't expect her to. I'm sorry she reacted to you the way she did. I don't like a cold T and would lose her if that's how she's going to be.

Originally Posted by Littlemeinside

I was referring to a way of interacting in a " relationship"..( respecting her personal life and not worry that she didn´t ask how you have been. Obviously you didn´t worry about her) The message you send across is " I don´t care about you but you should care about me. It doesn´t work that way.

The T should have asked Miswimmy how she was while she was gone; it IS part of her job (and I would be very concerned if my T didn't ask me; what are they there for then??). And it is not Miswimmy's job to be her friend and worry or care about her if the connection isn't there, or even if it is. I have had a few Ts I have been very connected to assure me I did not need to worry about them because they could take care of themselves...not that this eased my concern, but I know it's not a client's job to worry about or make sure our Ts are happy.

Also, the T read the email. Ts are grownups and make their own choices...it's already been stated several times a response was not expected. If she wanted to be really serious about it, she didn't even need to check her email, but she did.

[TippPatt]

Originally Posted by Miswimmy1

I don't know if she is just oblivious to that fact, or if this is some sort of approach that she has, or what, but I am getting tired of trying to do this on my own. I need someone who will work with me. I feel like I have tried to reach out to her, and work with her stricter boundaries and all that. I feel like I've been patient and have cut her a lot of slack, disregarding many other things she has said or done that have felt counterproductive. But I feel like right now, I'm still all alone. And it's been almost 4 months.

Sounds to me that you two are at cross purposes. She wants you to recognize that she's a woman with a life outside of therapy and you want her to recognize that your need for therapy should be her first priority.

Yikes - that's tough. My advice to you is to be more honest with her. You told us the emails were no big deal, you just needed to get stuff out and then you went on to be angry that she'd not read them. You do see the difference there, right?

You also thought you were the only one emailing her, didn't you? Were you shocked that she said there were loads of them and you weren't the only one? Did that upset you? If so, you should tell her that.

She seemed to have wanted to re-start your sessions as if there had been no interruption but you wanted her being gone to be acknowledged. If you had felt abandoned during that time, don't you think she should know that? I would think so as that's an important feeling in therapy.

Just an outside observation - tell me what you think about what I've said, if you will.

Originally Posted by TippPatt

Sounds to me that you two are at cross purposes. She wants you to recognize that she's a woman with a life outside of therapy and you want her to recognize that your need for therapy should be her first priority.

Yikes - that's tough. My advice to you is to be more honest with her. You told us the emails were no big deal, you just needed to get stuff out and then you went on to be angry that she'd not read them. You do see the difference there, right?

You also thought you were the only one emailing her, didn't you? Were you shocked that she said there were loads of them and you weren't the only one? Did that upset you? If so, you should tell her that.

She seemed to have wanted to re-start your sessions as if there had been no interruption but you wanted her being gone to be acknowledged. If you had felt abandoned during that time, don't you think she should know that? I would think so as that's an important feeling in therapy.

Just an outside observation - tell me what you think about what I've said, if you will.

Have you read any of the other postings about the relationship between Miswimmy and her T? Seriously, the selfishness you are projecting onto her right now is blowing my mind.

And you should reread. Miswimmy was never upset the emails weren't read when she sent them.

Sorry Miswimmy, I know you can handle yourself quite well so I should give you the chance.

If you want to discuss how you did during those two weeks, you TOO are capable of bringing up the subject. If you want to discuss the content of your emails, you could have said that yes, you would like her to read them. Instead, you passively chose to say nothing in the first case and said exactly opposite of what you felt in the second. You are still expecting this T to pass your tests, but you aren't really giving her the study sheet. You have always wanted your T's to take care of you, sort of mother you, but even your old T repeatedly failed at this in your eyes. You've just forgotten how often you were upset with your old T with her own failure to do what you thought she should intuitively know to do without you actually communicating it directly to her.

[Littlemeinside]

[TippPatt]

Originally Posted by lost_key

Have you read any of the other postings about the relationship between Miswimmy and her T? Seriously, the selfishness you are projecting onto her right now is blowing my mind.

And you should reread. Miswimmy was never upset the emails weren't read when she sent them.

Sorry Miswimmy, I know you can handle yourself quite well so I should give you the chance.

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this, but in the OP, Miswimmy said this regarding her Therapist not wanting to go back and read those emails she sent....

To clarify, I did know what they were about, but I didn't feel like we had the time to go over what they said and to have me re explain all of them. I thought she would say something like I'll go back and look for next time, but she said, "Ok then I probably won't ever go back then." Like they weren't important or something because I didn't want to tell her right then and there what they were about. That really unsettled me.

See that last line? She was upset that the emails weren't read by her Therapist. If you want to call her selfish, go right ahead, I didn't feel it was my place to do so. I simply pointed out a few areas that were in contradiction and asked that she be honest with her therapist. I find honesty between a patient and therapist is always the best way to go. After all, without honesty in therapy all you're doing is verbally dancing.

Right?

Originally Posted by TippPatt

I'm not going to get into a pissing match with you over this, but in the OP, Miswimmy said this regarding her Therapist not wanting to go back and read those emails she sent....

See that last line? She was upset that the emails weren't read by her Therapist. If you want to call her selfish, go right ahead, I didn't feel it was my place to do so. I simply pointed out a few areas that were in contradiction and asked that she be honest with her therapist. I find honesty between a patient and therapist is always the best way to go. After all, without honesty in therapy all you're doing is verbally dancing.

Right?

Um, no. Now you are putting words into MY mouth. I commented on the selfishness YOU were projecting onto her, so don't act like I am calling Miswimmy selfish. I already posted my opinion more than once, which is that the T is completely in the wrong.

Miswimmy is upset that the T doesn't see the emails as being important enough to go back and consider them now post vacation, in session...how she basically blew them off in session. This is much different than her being upset over them not being read while she was on vacation.

And you never answered me if you knew any of the back story re: their relationship, so I will take that as a no.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by Littlemeinside

I didn´t mean that the T should talk about the vacation. It´s more a " how are you, I am good and you?" dynamic I was looking for.

I am sure the T didn´t know that she didn´t have to respond. So she had to make a professional decision while on vacation.

I often find that alot of us in here put alot of focus on our T´s, forgetting to look at our own part in the "relationship".

It's not a relationship reciprocal in the same sense. IF I were to ask T about her vacation, I would expect a casual answer such as "yea, we had a great time. Very relaxing." I wouldn't expect some personal journey. The responses I tend to get to such casual, friendly questions is a bland response that invites no further discussion.

If T were to ask me the same thing, I would expect to answer something about my therapeutic journey. It's just not a reciprocal question. I struggle with conflacting the two.

I'm wondering how you know T didn't know that she didn't have to respond to the email, or what process she went through?

My experience is whenever a T blames a Cl for something, the T needs to work on what the Ts issue is (actually, same thing is true for most every relationship, although I'm willing to do more accommodating for my wife, kids, friends). Seems to me a better response, one that Miswimmy would have been okay with, is: I didn't make it very clear - as I lot LOTS of emails from many clients - that I probably wouldn't have much time for emails. I didn't realize how little time I would have, nor how much people might wish to contact me. I'll have to be clearer in the future, and even consider further what else might be done. However, I am overwhelmed, and if I read all the emails, I'd have to take another few days before seeing clients, and I didn't want to do that. I'm wondering whether simply writing the emails was sufficient for you, or if you would like to talk about what was in the emails.


Sometimes clients don't look at their behavior. That's why they are in T. Sometimes people think it's more likely that the cl is doing something wrong than that the T is doing something wrong.

[Syra]

Originally Posted by Littlemeinside

I was referring to a way of interacting in a " relationship"..( respecting her personal life and not worry that she didn´t ask how you have been. Obviously you didn´t worry about her) The message you send across is " I don´t care about you but you should care about me. It doesn´t work that way.

Hmmm. I'm wondering what you are thinking about, because it's so different from where I am coming from. What kind of caring do you think a client is supposed to do in T? How does it show up?