[GeorgiaGirl413]

I have become aware that my current T is being supervised on my case by my old T. Now, I did not leave my old T, she retired. But I was vert attached to her and love her very much. Even though I understood it all from a logical viewpoint, I was very hurt and felt very abandoned. She made it very clear that she would consider us having a "friendship" but only after it had been two years since the completion of therapy. So as I count the days, I find out now that she has been aware of what is going on with me all along. Now, I know I am a difficult case and I should be glad that my old T has been willing to continue to supervise my new T. But something in me is just so angry that my old T knows what has been going on with me, and I don't get to know anything about her. I told my new T that I wasn't sure I was comfortable with this situation and why. She told me everything that was said (I believe she is truthful with me) and said that if I really did not want her to talk to my old T about me she wouldn't. But that having her supervision was important to her and very helpful ih helping her help me. Just confused. I just can't help feeling this is so unfair.

[Asiablue]

oh wow. I would HATE that. Particularly since you didn't know, i think that is very unfair and you deserved to know that. I don't blame you for feeling angry.

Also, you've had to deal with missing your exT and basically her not being in your life and she hasn't been doing the same because she's still keeping tabs on you. How is a friendship going to work if she hasn't fully stopped being your therapist (albeit inadvertantly) where is the 2 year break from her side? It just seems dishonest.

[stopdog]

I am not trying to be disrespectful - but I am not getting what part of this is unfair.

[GeorgiaGirl413]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I am not trying to be disrespectful - but I am not getting what part of this is unfair.

because she gets to know what is going on with me but I don't get to know what's going on with her.

[Asiablue]

I think it's unfair that Georgiagirl wasn't made aware that her former therapist was basically still managing her case. There has been no transparency that her old T would still be involved in her care and also her consent while maybe not legally required but as a matter of courtesy and in the spirit of openess was not sought.

Also, just to add, the client has a right to confidentiality and anonymity, a supervisor isn't meant to know full details of the therapists case load, usually the therapist just uses a first name or initials or something to distinguish between clients.

[learning1]

Stopdog generally doesn't understand why anyone would care about anyone I think- or at least she doesn't understand why clients and therapists would care about each other- so her question doesn't reflect on your situation I don't think. Anyway, I would also feel really weird if that happened and I wasn't told about it. How long was it going on before you found out? Could your new t be supervised by another t for your case? If I were you, once I found out, I'd probably constantly be feeling like I was talking to two people when I talked with my t. I'd probably be wondering how the t I was talking with was reporting it to the old t. I'd much rather that the supervisor was someone I didn't know.

[ultramar]

Originally Posted by GeorgiaGirl413

because she gets to know what is going on with me but I don't get to know what's going on with her.

I don't think I'm understanding --do you mean you did know what was going on with her while in therapy with her?

[stopdog]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I think it's unfair that Georgiagirl wasn't made aware that her former therapist was basically still managing her case. There has been no transparency that her old T would still be involved in her care and also her consent while maybe not legally required but as a matter of courtesy and in the spirit of openess was not sought.

Also, just to add, the client has a right to confidentiality and anonymity, a supervisor isn't meant to know full details of the therapists case load, usually the therapist just uses a first name or initials or something to distinguish between clients.

This I both understand and agree with. If it was planned that old therapist would supervise the situation (knowing GG was the client in question) and the client was not told of it - I would think that was quite wrong.

Originally Posted by learning1

Stopdog generally doesn't understand why anyone would care about anyone I think- or at least she doesn't understand why clients and therapists would care about each other- so her question doesn't reflect on your situation I don't think.

I do understand why real people (friends, lovers, family) care about each other. I asked my question about fairness and the OP answered. My question was not about caring.

[learning1]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I do understand why real people (friends, lovers, family) care about each other.

That's nice.

Originally Posted by stopdog

I asked my question about fairness and the OP answered. My question was not about caring.

It seemed to me like the answer to your question would be more obvious to people who expect that clients and therapists care about each other more than you usually seem to expect they do. I wasn't trying to put you down and I didn't think you'd mind my remark. Sorry if you did.

[feralkittymom]

I understand feeling surprised by this, and maybe even blindsided a bit. I don't know about the ethics or legality regarding confidentiality and whether or not either T has violated anything. But I guess I have two reactions:

If your former T is retired, is this a formal supervision? Such relationships are usually a paid service, so if that's true, then your T isn't really retired. I could imagine that bringing up a feeling of anger in the sense of if she's not really retired, why couldn't you keep seeing her? I might feel a bit abandoned in that situation.

If she's not being paid, then I find the supervision to be more iffy ethically. And who requested the supervision? I assume it was your current T, as that would be more common. Did your former T refer you to the new T?

But from a purely emotional perspective, I think I might also feel cared for and held by my former T's continued involvement in my care. At the same time, if you were eager for the relationship to transition (worth thinking hard about what motivates that desire), then her action seems to be delaying that potential. And perhaps a bit of the anger is also a feeling that the supervision somehow undermines your confidence in your current T? There's no reason for it to necessarily, but it could feel that way.

Definitely lots to explore in therapy beyond the practical arrangement side of things.

ETA: It also sounds like you've already equalized the relationship between you and former T in your thinking about her, and you see the delay as a purely logistical concern. The supervision shifts the balance back to T/client. But the post therapy relationship isn't equal, and it's unlikely it ever will be, especially if you are continuing in therapy. The relationship can be many things that are valuable and satisfying, but viewing it as being an equal relationship is, I think, faulty. Realizing this may make the fact of her continuing knowledge about you less troublesome to you.

[GeorgiaGirl413]

Originally Posted by ultramar

I don't think I'm understanding --do you mean you did know what was going on with her while in therapy with her?

to some degree I did, but that is not the point, because at that time she was my T. Now she isn't.

[GeorgiaGirl413]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I understand feeling surprised by this, and maybe even blindsided a bit. I don't know about the ethics or legality regarding confidentiality and whether or not either T has violated anything. But I guess I have two reactions:

If your former T is retired, is this a formal supervision? Such relationships are usually a paid service, so if that's true, then your T isn't really retired. I could imagine that bringing up a feeling of anger in the sense of if she's not really retired, why couldn't you keep seeing her? I might feel a bit abandoned in that situation.

If she's not being paid, then I find the supervision to be more iffy ethically. And who requested the supervision? I assume it was your current T, as that would be more common. Did your former T refer you to the new T?

But from a purely emotional perspective, I think I might also feel cared for and held by my former T's continued involvement in my care. At the same time, if you were eager for the relationship to transition (worth thinking hard about what motivates that desire), then her action seems to be delaying that potential. And perhaps a bit of the anger is also a feeling that the supervision somehow undermines your confidence in your current T? There's no reason for it to necessarily, but it could feel that way.

Definitely lots to explore in therapy beyond the practical arrangement side of things.

ETA: It also sounds like you've already equalized the relationship between you and former T in your thinking about her, and you see the delay as a purely logistical concern. The supervision shifts the balance back to T/client. But the post therapy relationship isn't equal, and it's unlikely it ever will be, especially if you are continuing in therapy. The relationship can be many things that are valuable and satisfying, but viewing it as being an equal relationship is, I think, faulty. Realizing this may make the fact of her continuing knowledge about you less troublesome to you.

As far as I am aware this is a formal supervision (they meet regularly). So yes, you are right, to me that also says you are not really retired and so why couldn't she keep seeing me. But she did retire from her own practice. Also, yes, my old T referred me to my new T. So, even if they only used initials or first names in the supervision session, my old T would have to know who she was talking about. The whole thing just came up this past week. Part of the discussion was about my difficulty trusting my new T after feeling abandoned by the old. I don't think new T would have even told me about the supervision except that she was trying to reassure me that old T did indeed care about me. On the one hand this is comforting. And it helps me know that I am getting the best care possible. But, I still feel, emphasis on the FEEL, that it is unfair. Trying to decide if I should ask my new T Not to discuss me with old T anymore.

[feralkittymom]

Trying to decide if I should ask my new T Not to discuss me with old T anymore.

Difficult decision, for sure. Would it be possible to negotiate with your T to leave discussions you have regarding your feelings about former T out of supervision? The way it is, your former T is a silent witness to your sessions; how can that not influence how you process your feelings about her? It wouldn't matter so much if you wouldn't have contact with her again, but in the face of intending to pursue a post therapy relationship, it's certainly awkward.

ETA: The more I think about it, the more this supervision seems a blurring of boundaries that is inappropriate. It's like she's guiding your therapy, but you don't get to be a participant with her. It puts your T in a proxy-T role. One of the benefits of supervision is supposed to be the objectivity the supervisor can bring to the conduct of a therapy. Your former T brings knowledge of you, but that same knowledge is at a cost of her objectivity. How can she supervise in any way other than how she did/would conduct the therapy with you?

I would actually think this would be a situation that would probably be quite helpful. Your former T who you say you liked and worked well with, is now in the position to supervise your current T. She has unique and deep understanding of you as a person and client, whereas often supervisors of therapists really know very little about the clients those T's are working with. Your former to will be able to see if your new T is going a direction with you that might be unproductive or unhelpful. That is much more than usually comes out of a supervision situation, and it should really work to your benefit.

[GeorgiaGirl413]

Originally Posted by 1914sierra

I would actually think this would be a situation that would probably be quite helpful. Your former T who you say you liked and worked well with, is now in the position to supervise your current T. She has unique and deep understanding of you as a person and client, whereas often supervisors of therapists really know very little about the clients those T's are working with. Your former to will be able to see if your new T is going a direction with you that might be unproductive or unhelpful. That is much more than usually comes out of a supervision situation, and it should really work to your benefit.

And this is what the objective and logical part of me sees and understands. That this situation could really work to my benefit. But I am BPD and these emotions get in the way, and I have to fight, fight, fight the impulse not to say or do something stupid. Thanks so much Sierra.