Unstable in RL becoming a T?

Does it worry you when someone you know in RL, who is mentally unstable, is training to be a T? I realize that it's not my place to involve myself in anyone else's career choices... but I can't help but feel somewhat concerned. Personally, I need my T to be stable and have her own mental health under control so that she can be there for me. If I knew my T was unstable, acting out, engaging in SI, and going in and out of residential treatment, then I would no longer trust her as a T. I read so many stories on the board about clients who have been harmed by Ts who have allowed their own issues to get in the way of treatment, and I see how damaging that can be. After all, being a T is a very difficult and demanding job, and it requires a lot of self-management and self-care. I think it's great when someone wants to go into a line of work in order to help others, but am I wrong for worrying that someone who is unstable in their own life might unintentionally do more harm than good to their clients?

ETA: I'm not talking about someone who is going through a rough patch; we all go through rough patches. I think a T who has worked to overcome a challenge in their own life may in fact be best suited to help clients overcome a similar issue. Here, I'm talking about someone who is consistently unstable and does not feel as though they will be stable any time soon.

A person can go to school for whatever. But when it comes to licensure, at least in my state, they ask about previous psych treatment. Because yeah it matters!

Edit in regard to your edit: theres rough patches or stability and still needing some support and being in T which is fine. But can you imagine a cancelled appt because T is in the psych ward?? Yikes

Thanks, elaygee. I agree that going to school (taking the classes, learning, etc) should absolutely be open to anyone who wants the education.

However, even while in school, most MSW, PsyD, and PhD programs require that students work as interns, which involves meeting with clients 1:1. Yes, they report to a supervisor, but they are still responsible for their clients' treatment. The client rarely (if ever) talks to the supervisor (or any licensed T).

I know I saw an intern for a few months myself, back when I was a grad student. At that time, I didn't even realize she was an intern; she was simply the T that I was assigned to. Luckily, she was stable and reasonably competent, but once I began working with an experienced T, I definitely noticed the difference.

You're not wrong. It's really, really not okay, unethical, irresponsible and frankly just mean and selfish to work as a therapist if you are mentally unwell yourself. It's honestly not all that different from pedophiles becoming teachers because they genuinely love and want to help children so much. The desire to help may be totally sincere in both cases but the potential to harm the very people whose well-being you are responsible for is just too enormous.

It is not okay to become a T because you are hurting so much inside. You will almost certainly end up using your clients to meet your emotional needs. Would you work in addiction treatment if you were still using? It is just not okay.

I've had that kind of T and the experience has left me with a lot of anger and bitterness.

This is not to say that anyone with a history of trauma or mental health problems should never become a therapist. Just that they have to have put in the work necessary to have achieved a healthy degree of stability and wellness. Ideally every T should be doing the work as part of an ongoing process.

Constantly unstable and taking no substantial steps toward recovery, then no, they shouldn't be a T. But if they're doing what they need to do to feel good about themselves, then it's no problem to me. We are human, we have problems.

I thought this article was interesting (albiet a bit depressing) and especially relevant to this conversation. I don't believe there are any Ts out there who "have it all together." I would prefer a T who has enough self-awareness to know that he/she always has things to be working on.

http://www.psychologytoday.com/artic...-have-problems

**I will say someone who is in and out of residential treatment wouldn't be in a place to provide therapy or to probably hold down most any type of job without going on a leave of some sort....So I agree that someone who is completely "unstable" needs to focus on themselves, most likely. Still - how to define stability and where to draw that line? I'm not so sure...very thought provoking

I find it terrifying sometimes when certain people I know discuss being in training to become a therapist. I have seen so much damage done by therapists who bring their own abandonment issues and defensiveness into the therapy room. There is one blogger I read periodically who is quite mentally ill and has an eating disorder that is not in remission. She discusses missing sessions and not being really present for clients in a way that suggests to me that she lacks a real awareness of how her issues could be profoundly affecting her clients.

I don't think is really a poll because the answer is really obvious that if you are unstable you can't be put in a position to be a therapist. It used to be a requirement that therapists in training received their own personal therapy. Many schools still require it, but it surprises me how many people don't have much experience with therapy yet they want to enter the profession. It's like deciding to be a professional chef when all you've done is eat McDonalds. If you've never appreciated good food and even tried to cook yourself, then what the heck are you doing? Doesn't make sense.

Most training programs do watch the students not just in supervision but at all times in general to watch for signs that someone might have emotional issues that need addressed or make them unsuitable for the field. Training programs tend to watch this carefully because they can be sued later on for allowing someone to graduate when having major problems that can harm others.

That said, people who work hard in therapy on past issues shouldn't be discriminated against. If by the time they are in the field as an intern, they still have an occasional issue, then there might be some questions, but in general someone who has worked hard on themselves might be better able to really have empathy. It depends on lots of factors though so no generalization can be made.

Analysts who have already gotten licensed and may be in the field for years and years, have to go through intensive analysis themselves and sometimes old issues get stirred up when you do that kind of in depth intensive work. I don't think that they should be prevented from working with clients. Maybe making a judicious decision to lighten their work load during the period of analysis instead.

This blogger seems to think she can
http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/...ice-self-doubt

I often represent clients in wards where the psych nurses disappear for their own in-patient stuff (I have seen and represented them while they were in different hospitals from the ones where they work) and know psychologists (phd.s) who do also.

And one of my ex lovers, who is also a jd, has gotten a degree in psych and is now a licensed therapist - and she has an eating disorder and some other diagnoses.

I am not saying it is a good idea, but it does not seem uncommon.

I think it depends what you feel is stable. If the person is proactive in getting help for themselves it doesn't have to effect therapy. All of us know there are times when mental illness rears it's ugly head and blind sides the person. I would much rather someone that personally knows the struggle then someone who can only speculate. T's issues doesn't mean they have to effect therapy even if they are currently in a relapse.

I definitely think you would need to be in remission of whatever ails you. For example, no self harming, no hospitalizations, and anything that will be discernible to the client.

As soon as the session isn't fully about the client, it's a problem.

We can all tell when the T is "off" and how it throws us. Therapists need to be consistent!! I think consistency would be very difficult for an ill T.

I was supposed to start my entry level course this year to begin training to become a T and even tho i wouldn't be seeing clients, and it was just the basic entry course, i could not in all good conscience begin that course knowing my own healing is no where near complete. So i gave up my place. I will return when i know i'm fit for purpose. I have no idea why some people are pursuing this career while unstable.

I wish that were the case in more Universities. Speaking only for my University, that certainly is not the case. This semester, I have a grad student in one of my courses (a cultural studies class, not a psych class) who is currently pursuing an MSW. She often stays behind after class to try and talk to me about her personal problems, despite my telling her that I cannot help her in that way. She tells me that she sees a counselor, but she needs more than what her counselor can provide. She also acts out in my class, although she produces good, written, academic work. She seems intelligent, but emotionally unstable. I asked the chair of my department how I should handle the student's behavior in my own class (as it is a disruption), and his response was that all I could do was ask her to stop making personal comments during class (or to me after class). It is against University policy to create any kind of "record" of a student's behavior that could be shared with anyone else at the University, outside of my own department chair. My chair also stated that if she behaved similarly in her MSW classes, that they were similarly limited. Their only recourse would be mentioning her behavior and instability in recommendation letters, if she asked them to write for her when she applied for jobs in the future. Their ability to grade her was limited to her academic work. The professors don't even supervise or grade her performance at her internship; that is done exclusively by the agency with which she interns. Expelling a student from an academic program for mental health reasons is also against the law. If the mental illness results in the student having failing grades and being unable to attend class for an extended period of time, then the student can be expelled for those reasons, but not for mild, inappropriate behavior during class, "breaking down" to professors on a regular basis, or only missing a few of classes due to hospitalization (which is an excusable medical excuse). Having had some bad therapy myself in the past, and reading about others' experiences on the board, it just troubles me to think about people who are clearly unstable becoming treatment providers before they have taken control of their own issues.

I really admire your self-awareness, Asia, and taking the action necessary. I'm not so worried about the reactive/acute depressions, or even the eating disorders. I am worried about the personality disorders, which are often treatment resistant and involve both cognitive and affective functioning. Not every client will be directly affected by a compromised T because it will depend upon the "fit" of issues, but for those who are, it can be devastating. Any standard of ethical practice would mandate that such events be guarded against. The notion that T's who share their clients' issues can lead to better treatment is just bizarre to me.

I used to be a professor at a major university and when I had student with emotional problems there were mechanisms in place to deal with it. We were asked, in cases of acting out in class and also in cases of threatening behaviors like becoming obsessed and almost stalking, to alert the student counseling center and let the student know that we had done so. This is for the protection of everyone, including the student. My university had no problem with that procedure. It was in place for us to use since it just didn't happen to singled out individuals.

I was talking about professional training programs not colleges or universities. Graduate work in the field of clinical psychology includes an evaluation of the student from the standpoint of more than academics. And people can be put on probation to prevent them from getting placements so they aren't in the field. There are also cases I've heard about where a student is dismissed not due to academics but to unsuitably after a committee reviews them and takes in the information. I think there are more things in place generally speaking that guard against this type of thing. Perhaps not at all but they are certainly not uncommon.

My University does have a policy in place for students who make threats or engage in bona fide "stalking" behavior, but this policy does not extend to what we might call "needy" students who simply want to talk to us about their personal struggles, create mild disruptions in class, or who display symptoms of anxiety, attachment disorders, personality disorders, suicidal ideation, etc. In order for us to be able to alert the counseling center (or anyone else beyond the dept. chair) the student has to have made a threat or there has to be an excessive trail of e-mails, phone calls, boundary probings, etc.

The polices you describe, however, sound great and I am glad that they are in place elsewhere.

The idea of the wounded healer is common enough though it can be controversial. I know someone who wrote a dissertation that explored the issue and found that some incredible number like over 90% of therapist had struggled with mental health issues in some form or another. I don't see what is so strange about thinking that if you have personal experience with an issue and have completed therapy about it that you wouldn't have some insight that someone who knew nothing about it except from study. Think of trauma specialists. Knowing something about the effects of trauma could potentially be a positive factor in your work with clients with trauma. I knew a professor who suddenly developed severe panic attacks. He used suffered from it for a while even though he sought treatment. He was at the forefront of the development of CBT and that finally helped him recover. He went on to be a good clinician and a great professor.

If someone is truly unwell, unstable then no question--not ready to be a T!

However, I prefer therapists who have "been through it" themselves--meaning they have had issues but have been to therapy and have learned to manage reasonably well. I prefer this to t's who don't know what it is like. Those with past issues have "walked the talk" and I respect that.

I certainly think every therapist should have endured therapy themselves, but I don't think that everyone who sees a therapist is especially wounded or in need of healing. I think people seek out counseling for a number of reasons. Certainly some are worse than others.

Yes, I find it very troubling.

I'd love to go on to study clinical psychology, for several reasons. I have managed to completely work through some really big problems in my own life. As a child I had quite a severe phobia that affected my everyday life in a huge way. It was something I managed to get completely under control without any help during my late teens. If I went on to a career like clinical psychology, I think the combination of my knowledge and my personal experience would be an asset when working with phobias, rather than anything else.

Most of my struggles are very internal. Not even family members knew about my phobias as a child, despite the fact that they ruled my life. I get asked sometimes at university if I’m planning on going on to clinical psych. While phobias no longer control my behaviour at all, the reality is that I'm nowhere near that stage with the rest of the issues that I'm currently working on in therapy. I'd need to be a long way from where I am now in order to consider a career like clinical psych. I think it’s quite likely that it’s something I will never study. I don't think it's impossible, but I think it would be almost unethical to try to help others when I struggle in such fundamental ways with my own life. I don't think it would be possible to truly file away my own problems (as much as some people seem to think it is) and I think it would be difficult to see just how much those unresolved issues could affect clients.

I do think it would be a shame if people like me could never resolve their issues to a point where they could go on to help others. I think we do have a choice about the way we live our lives. I think people can change and even turn their lives around completely. I think it would be a shame to believe that people like me will never be “good enough” to help others, no matter what they do. I also think it would be a bit of a shame if every single therapist out there had no personal experience of what it is really like to work through such a fundamental struggle in their own life, or if all of the psychologists came at research from that position, like an observing expert who knows so much, but can also only know so much.

But I certainly wouldn’t be very interested in the advice of a therapist who was either as or more unstable than I am. I don’t think that would be helpful for anyone. I find it difficult to read about people intending to become therapists when they are still much, much more unstable than I currently am. At least, there are certain things that I really think need to be under control, like highly self-destructive behaviours and low self-esteem.

Asia, I admire so much your level of self-awareness and ability to put the interests of your future clients first. I think that, for me, what I was talking about in terms of 'instability' was much more about active illness and the personality disorders, rather than just sort of low grade, background issues that would not affect clients. I have one acquaintance who has a history of CSA, and while I really feel for her, she will be so dangerous to clients if she ever starts practicing. She has borderline personality disorder, and she thinks she is FINE and totally stable and has conquered her illness (or presents herself as if she thinks this). From the outside looking in, though, she clearly still has huge issues and cannot handle disagreement, disappointment, or too many fluctuations in her life or the moods of those around her. She still has giant issues around abandonment and feeling left out. I cannot see her ever handling the kind of push/pull thing that happens in therapy, or reacting well if a client disagrees with or challenges her.

Perhaps part of this issue is that some people do not have the self awareness or the insight that Asia has. They think their problems are solved or not so bad that the problems will affect clients. I see several people also who clearly look unstable to me, and who TO ME seem like they would be horrible therapists due to their issues, but who seem to think they are fine and stable and able to be therapists.

I know there were times when I was not functioning as well as I could because of my own issues with depression. I tried really hard to keep it from affecting my clients, but I am not certain I was always successful. Luckily in my profession, it's generally not the case that my mistakes would affect someone's mental healthy status.

THIS!!! Exactly. I have to avoid reading certain things and take short breaks from PC for this reason sometimes. I think defensiveness and abandonment issues also are huge to have under control.

I think there is a huge amount of difference between someone who has issues, and someone who is unstable.

You can have massive issues that you're working on, and I think that you could still be a successful T.

But if you're unstable, then you can't be very consistent for clients and thus shouldn't be a T until you're no longer unstable.

Relapses happen, and that's alright, but until someone is stable they should not enter the profession.

I think that in the case of those who are working as Ts who also have mental illness or relationship-problems (relationship as in friends, family, intimate, etc) should ensure that they're doing the responsible thing and continue attending therapy and speaking with their supervisors to ensure that they are actually providing quality care for someone else.

I agree wholeheartedly with there being a big difference between having issues that you've worked through (or are working through) and being unstable. I can't imagine how someone who isn't stable can be a stable therapist for anyone else. I hope that those instabilities would become apparent in their internships and that their supervisors would have the intestinal fortitude and the legal right to prevent that person from completing the program. Programs that knowingly unleash unstable therapists are doing a huge disservice to the public.

I believe a lot of people who identify as mental health professionals are unstable in various ways. I think it depends upon a lot of factors as to whether that instability has any bearing on their interactions with clients.