So...when you Terminate....does the T, just not...say anything?

Yes, I am aware.

The first time I just mentioned my hesitation to write the night before. The second, I was referring to my intent (writing my concerns about you possibly running away)...I didn't write it before because I wasn't certain YOU were aware. I was glad to see you recognized it.

I wonder if you are "running away". Not from your T, from you. From the 13 year old girl inside of you who never had the chance to process her emotions after her experience with her best friends brother. I wonder if you feel out of control and this is the only way you know to gain some control back in your life.

You aren't crazy, you're scared.

I hope, at the very least, you will return to your T and share with him all that you shared here. I believe your REAL therapy will begin here....good luck!

I can appreciate what you are saying here, and you're right. I am running away. But I'm running away not only from myself, but from an environment in which I know, that a misstep will likely ruin my life. If I keep up with my therapist, I promise you, I'm gonna get hurt. I'm gonna get very very very hurt, and it's me who will wind up hurting myself and that's ultimately NOT going to help me.

I will continue with therapy. Just not with the same T. I don't understand why anyone would think it's savvy or wise to go back to the same T.

And besides, I wrote a termination letter. I don't think I can "take that back" and if I tried to, I'd just look that much more unstable. Considering that I still haven't heard a word from him, I no longer believe I will hear from him, and this is now...sadly, in the past.

I also believe, if he wanted to really help me through my therapy, or my transference or the likes, he'd have already been more demonstrative in therapy. The more I think upon it, I think this guy wanted me gone.

The reason I think it MIGHT be "savvy or wise" to go back to the same T is because he's the T who brought up the feelings you mentioned about your best friend's brother and your other early relationships with men. So you MIGHT be able to figure out how to have a different reaction/outcome with him than you did when you were a kid. With another T, if you don't have the feelings it might not mean as much to just talk about the feelings. But all the reasons you gave for leaving sounded good too, and so did Lauliza's argument that you should quit. So I don't know.

PS, I hope it didn't sound sarcastic that I quoted you... didn't mean it that way, just wanted you to know what I was responding to.

PPS
"I don't think I can "take that back" and if I tried to, I'd just look that much more unstable. Considering that I still haven't heard a word from him, I no longer believe I will hear from him, and this is now...sadly, in the past."

I think it's pretty normal for clients to say they quit and then change their minds and I don't think it matters whether you "look" unstable.

"I also believe, if he wanted to really help me through my therapy, or my transference or the likes, he'd have already been more demonstrative in therapy. The more I think upon it, I think this guy wanted me gone."

I really don't know. I don't want to encourage you to go back too much because obviously I can't know whether he'd be supportive or not.

I don't want you to hurt yourself or get hurt.

My first T terminated me. I won't go into specifics but I will say, it hurt. ALOT. At the time, I told him I doubted he knew the extent (of damage).... It's been six years and, yes, it's still painful. Occasionally, there are days I (still) cry and talk about it in my therapy. So, I know.

I have walked away from other T's since that experience. One, because I felt betrayed and the other, because I was scared.

In each experience, I gained knowledge about myself and how I relate to others based on past experiences, both old and new ones. It has been a difficult journey but also a rewarding one.

Don't worry about how "unstable" you look... your task in therapy is to talk about it with your T and the two of you, collectively , decide if you can continue to work together or not.

In the end, you may be right and this T may not be the one for you but how will you know if you don't talk about it? His raised eyebrow may not be "flirting" but amusement, or intrigue, by the lengths you will go to avoid talking about it.

Good luck.

[QUOTE= His raised eyebrow may not be "flirting" but amusement, or intrigue, by the lengths you will go to avoid talking about it.

Good luck.[/QUOTE]

Well considering the "raised up and down eyebrows" were presented as he came to get me from the lobby before I said a word, puts...that theory to bed.

The smoldering long staring games? I dunno.

I've said this a bunch of times, this feels completely moot at this point. I ended therapy. He said nothing, nothing at all, not "are you sure?" not "I'm sorry to hear you feel this way, would you like to talk this through?" not even "it was a pleasure serving you." I've heard NOTHING. I am DEFINITELY not going to...after writing that and hearing nothing, write him another letter and say "I changed my mind." That is....not a good look!!!

And the truth is, I think another T, can help me through this, by merely my bringing up this incident with my T! It's a good starting place!

Coltrane - is it possible that he didn't get your email yet since it's been the weekend? Also, I know it's unlikely, but sometimes emails don't go through.... I emailed my T once and told him I really do need his help ( after basically spending half my session contemplating quitting therapy and then basically saying the next session would probably be my last /: ) and I sent the email on a Friday night. He responded Monday morning.

I doubt it. He's got a gmail account, it's not like I'm emailing a very specific email addy. I emailed him at roughly 5PM on Friday. He's still on the clock to my knowledge at that time.

Even still, you really think...he's not seeing that over the weekend?

It doesn't matter. I'm gonna do another shot of bourbon and then attempt to play the entire Leonard Cohen catalog on piano. It soothes the burn.

I quit and went back every few weeks for the first year. The therapist did not blink an eye at it.
Now I just take breaks.
If you want a new one, then fine, but you really could change your mind if you wanted to. It has never made a difference to any therapist I have ever seen.
And if I get emails at the end of my work day or late in the day - I often don't read them or respond to them until the next monday.

Agreed. It's a good starting place with a new T.

Some T's (gently) encourage a client to seek closure with a previous one because of the intensity of the therapy relationship. My first T, I saw six months post termination.

Whatever happens, I hope you are able to find one who is smarter than you and can help you work through your own defenses.

"Whatever happens, I hope you are able to find one who is smarter than you and can help you work through your own defenses."

"Smarter than Me?" This sounds...vaguely attacking. I'm...I dunno....weirded out by that.

It sounds like you're challenging me or something.

Minimally I hope I find one, that I can actually really just OPEN UP TO.

Cotranefanatic,

I've noticed a pattern in these various threads about your transference and I'd like to point it out to you. You are very quick to get defensive and often imply that we're out to get you, quick to judge you, and don't really understand your situation. You ask for our advice but as soon as someone says something you don't want to hear you are quick to snap and quite literally tell us to 'back off.' I understand that I'm probably going to rub you the wrong way, but if you don't want to hear what people's opinions are you might not want to post asking for opinions.

Here's the way I see it: you said in your email that you think it "might not be savvy to return." You used the word might. Maybe, just maybe, this email was misunderstood and he thinks you're still on the fence. It could be that he is thinking you're going to talk this over at your upcoming session and has no earthly idea how serious you are. There's also the idea that it's the weekend, so 1) maybe he didn't see it 2) maybe he's taking some time to breathe and make the best possible professional move, knowing you are raw and 3) maybe he doesn't respond clinically over email (but I still think if it's #3 he should urge you to come in one more time and discuss.)

Another thing is that you seem to have a pattern where you think men only want you for sex. I have this pattern, too. It was for this reason that I decided to stay with my (hot, same-aged) therapist because I want to give myself the opportunity to work through this and see that I don't have to be in a physically intimate relationship with every guy I feel an emotionally intimate connection with.

Are you very sure you want to run from this? Is it ultimately what's going to be the best ending for you to carry with you the rest of your life? I also have strong transference feelings for my T but he does not flirt with me or make me feel uncomfortable about it, so it's hard for me to truly understand, but I'd rather work through my feelings for him rather than run away and have yet another failed 'relationship' under my belt. I wonder if you're projecting his flirtatious advances onto him because you seem to have this idea men only want you for sex - and I can't help but wonder if this notion is something you can benefit from working through, not running from.

You say you were abandoned at 13 by a man that you gave your virginity to. He took off without looking back and let you broken and confused. Perhaps you are running from your T before he can turn his back on you?

I just think there's a lot of fertile topics underneath all this transference and it might be worth exploring. That said, I don't think a consultation with a different T is a bad thing, either. Get a second opinion and take some time to breathe before making your decision.

I hope you're feeling a little better than yesterday, I know you were having a really difficult time.

I agree with Mactastic.
I'm just wondering - she chose to run away from her therapist because of her feeling and you told her to stay and live through this transference.
But I have to run away from my therapist. Why?
It's hard to say what is better - stay in therapy or get away. Can we run away from the people who are in our hearts? Can we run away from our feelings? Won't it haunt us all our life? Does it heal us if we run away from our pain? Are we strong if we run away from our problems not solving them?
I really don't know. If transference (I hate that word) is part of therapy why should we run away? Because it hurts too much? If we get away does it stop the pain or make it deeper?
I was thinking a lot about this and still I'm not sure what is better - to leave or to stay. I chose to stay, she chose to leave. Will we ever know what was right? I think - no.

If we had more examples from others who have worked through this kind of transference and come out the other side better for it, then I think we would know that it at least is possible to get resolution....it just seems that the overwhelming amount of stories from those who have been terminated or left of their own volition outnumber any success stories from what I have seen. Which worries me greatly

Freewilled, I would guess that's because healthy people don't use this forum as much.
So we don't see the "success" stories as much.

And we don't see success stories about "sex with therapist" because they won't tell you about it and won't publish it. It's a secret.
Amy Lee (from Evanescence) married to her therapist.

I dont want to derail this thread, but just wanted to add that I don't consider "resolution of the transference" to include having sex with the therapist. If there are success stories on that front, then I think they are very very rare. Therapy should not include sex, IMO. That's super dangerous....

Seriously? You really think we are here to cheer someone on to failure? You think, with all of our own personal challenges, we have the mental time or energy to manipulate you into a "dangerous experience" or that you experience will somehow save ourselves?

Originally Posted by Mactastic View Post
Cotranefanatic,

I've noticed a pattern in these various threads about your transference and I'd like to point it out to you. You are very quick to get defensive and often imply that we're out to get you, quick to judge you, .
Mactastic, I don't think anyone is quick to judge me, I just think when I read sentences like "I hope you find a T smarter than you..." that's someone attempting to challenge me. Which, hey, under different circumstances I'd welcome that challenge.

But for everyone who wants me to stay with this T, I can't help asking, is everyone so hellbent on my staying because you're all thinking of me? Or because you want to see what the outcome would be if I stayed, so you can vicariously experience the end result of a dangerous experiment? It's human nature, I fault no one and I'm not implying that people here, secretly don't wish me well, but considering all these threads are turning into "Clash of the Transferences" it just seems, that some people here want me to take that brave step, not for myself, but for "science" if you will. And considering as Freewilled has aptly mentioned, we have no one here who can describe what the positives of working through a transference issue are, I'm not really...biting the line that it can work successfully. I think I'd have a nervous breakdown. I was an anxious, anger riddled, neurotic, god knows what walking into therapy. I feel strongly that if I continue on with this T, I will break down completely.

You're also not right. I don't think all men just want to use me for sex. I have MANY relationships with men, bandmates, friends, peers and colleagues that I have very platonic relationships with and I don't think all these men want to sleep with me. What I experienced in my past however, was that most of the men I encountered, did NOT want anything PAST sex from me. I don't think it takes a therapist to look at this and say, "when that starts at 13, it's an uphill battle in self esteem issues."

And when that's coupled with my abuse, my Mom, my Dad, it's hard to trust.

So once again, am I running away? Yes. I am. I'm in survival mode. I have feelings for this T. I don't want to have feelings for this T. I don't want my life complicated by another man, even if this man has never laid a hand on me. And as for the "projected flirtations" I'm not even sure I care to examine them anymore. Seems everyone here is more interested in throwing their opinions around bout whether that's real or not. I don't even care anymore. I just want out. I don't even care anymore if he reaches out to me or not.

I just want OUT.

Looks like the thread got...interrupted.

I do not think personal challenges and schadenfreude are mutually exclusive to each other. And let's face it, if one person...steps forward and tries this and fails, at least there's someone who could come here and say "I tried this and it failed."

But I can't take the risk.

I can (at least partly - all cases are always different) imagine how you feel... I couldn't have sent the e-mail to my (now ex) therapist with the termination information as I would really wait for his response... Probably I would like to get a "confirmation" that I've made a good decision, so he could respond sth "terrible" - then I would be sure that I made a right choice to leave him, he could write sth like "it was a pleasure to try to help you but I agree that my approach might be not the best for you" - I guess I would like him for such response or he even could try to convince me that I should stay - then it would mean that he really cares and I would get the hope that maybe we could sove this problem (?)
But would any of this virtual responses really help? I've told my xT about the termination at the session and he almost didn't say anything to it... Was I disappointed? Yes a lot but actually any response wouldn't change anything - I have already made my decision and he couldn't have changed that... I think you know what is the best for you... If you are 100% sure that you want to quit, then (in my opinion of course) quit and look for another (maybe female this time) T... If you really wait and hope for his e-mail that you should discuss it, if you think that you can solve this problem - then (again in my opinion) try... Going once more to the session hopefully won't damage you if you are "prepared" but maybe you need this going once more to be sure what to do? I don't know and I think none of us know... That's why you got so different input from so many people - people here just try to show their opinion so that you can take into account all of them and think with which one you agree, I think that showing different point of views can really help... IMO no one wants you to stay with this therapist just because of curiosity (will he damage you or not?) but we only want to help you analyze if and why you really want to quit the therapy with him...

I might be wrong of course...

This is absolutely true, Freewilled. It sounds good, to "work through the transference" in therapy but that is not what typically happens.

coltranefanatic-I so understand the agony that you are experiencing and I feel for you. I actually don't think you are running away. I think you are running to a place that is not so painful. It's true-therapy is difficult and very painful, no question. It's also true that many people are frightened to do the work that is involved and sometimes find excuses to leave. But is also very true that sometimes it is essential and critical to make the decision to leave a particular therapist under certain circumstances. That decision can indicate self-care, awareness and courage on the part of the client-or you, in this case. Those are positive qualities. I think it's possible to work through transference in some cases. That is when the transference isn't so intense that it causes constant concern and despair and being overwhelmed (these feelings can overtake the reason one went into therapy) or when the therapist makes it clear that they have the ability and willingness to do the delicate work that is necessary to work through the transference. But if those things aren't a part of the situation it is up to the client to decide what is in their best interest and that is very likely a decision to leave that therapist.

I wish you all the best and I think that, if you haven't given up on your healing process for the things you sought help to begin with, you might look at this decision as a positive sign-although an extremely painful decision-and a sign that you are trying to take care of yourself. That is always a good thing. Feel free to message me if you ever want to talk.

Thank you so much CrimsonBlues, I do believe you understand me the most inherently and I will definitely take you up on talking.

As of now, it's 10:30 AM. Haven't heard from the T, and I no longer expect to. And I have to now begin the process of unloading any neurosis about it, or the fact that clearly, I wasn't even worthy of "goodbye, take care."

That's interesting. Not to hijack the thread, but that is exactly why I choose to stay with my hot, same age psychiatrist. To use him as a tool to teach me how to not think I'm in love with an attractive man just because there's a connection there. I can't too attached and fear the aftermath when I ultimately don't see him anymore. But this parallels real life, so maybe this is good for me. For people like me who are severely socially anxious and dependent on the approval of men, then therapy with a man who GETS THIS may be perfect. It is the safe place to learn resiliance for these very same situations that may happen in real life- but with much greater consequences. If it is not too emotionally painful, it can be a great help.

On the other hand, if the patient's feelings get progressively stronger, obsessive, confusing, distracting, etc... because the therapist appears to be encouraging these feelings (or at least doing nothing to squash them or work through them), then that is an entirely different story.

What I've learned in my grad school studies and from discussions with my T and Pdoc is basically this: feelings of transference is totally normal. It's to be expected to get attached to your T, and it's usually good. But it stays in sessions, never goes outside. Even if you have a romantic or sexual attraction (transference or whatever you want to call it) but are able to go about your everyday life once you leave the office that's normal too and fine. But if these feelings begin to take over your thoughts much outside of session so much that you are not functioning well, then that is very different. In this situation, it is preferable to refer you to a different T. Maybe that's just the opinion of the people I work with, but in my studies the professors have pretty much said the same thing. Things get very hairy for T and client alike, and can lead to very unfortunate (and sometimes unsafe) situations for the therapist. It's just not good for a patient either. It's psychological torture. Imagine being forced to sit in a room with the ex partner you still love but they've moved on. You sit with them for an hour a week and bare your soul, but then are expected to go home and forget about him/her while they goes about their life, only to repeat the next week. It's insanity. As soon as a T suspects that things are headed in this direction they are generally encouraged to refer you to someone else.

At first i read that as "its unsanitary"

But i feel the same way. He has to be cute enough that i would be interested in him, not so ugly that i would be disdainful of him, yet cute enough that he would not be interested in me, but he has to show that he appreciates me. Yet ultimately not someone i would want to be with, but someone i can work with. Wow, why is that stuff so complicated?? I know things were complicated in my family, about looks.