[_embrace]

I don't post here often (at all, really), but I read most of the posts by others. I have social anxiety, and it's just..."one of those things" that's really hard for me to do.

Anyway, I have a question for you all. I'm a psychology student (It's my minor, but i've taken a lot of classes) and feel like I've learned a lot about different therapies that exist, especially CBT...maybe too much? I recently joined a group, and found that I could predict what the therapist would say/do. I knew what was coming and all that...and the group didn't really help me at all.

What do you do if you KNOW the cognitive distortions, you can identify them, but you still can't do anything about it? I can see how things are linked (cognitions-emotions-biochemistry-etc.)...I've studied it! But I can't help myself, and I think that knowing these things is actually detrimental to me getting better.

Has anyone else experienced this? What would you suggest? What comes next? I'm so confused and let down...

[lenjan]

I think anyone who has had CBT for any length of time is in the same boat. I can recite the cognitive distortions in my sleep, but I can't get myself to fix them. I can point them out as I'm doing them, but putting into practice what I know is a whole other story.

I'll be interested to hear what others have to say. Sorry I wasn't more help.

CB

Yup. I have taken lots and lots of college psychology classes and have myself been in therapy on and off for over 20 years. One of the hardest things on heart for me is taking a comprehensive psychological evaluation because some of my courses dealt with the behind the scenes of psychological tests and testing requirements and styles. so I know which questions are just there to fill space, which ones are the validity scores, why they are worded the way they are and so on. I sit there and my brain automatically switches into analysis the test questions instead of my just doing the test. So I end up having to take mini breaks to clear my head when ever the learning kicks in instead of the just doing.

As for CBT and second gussing my therapists well Here in the USA all therapy uses CBT which is mainly just finding out what the persons problems are, brainstorming and coming up with goals to work on and then achieving those goals to take care of the problems.

And a part of a therapist job is to point own when they see their client slipping into thoughs and behaviors where the therapist does not feel they should be going or that thought or behavior needs some work on.

Sometimes I can see where the conversation is going and so one of the first things I do is that I let my therapists know that I do have background in attending college psych classes and so on.

one therapist SKR got real good at being spontanious as in mixing topics so that I could not put up a wall against where she wanted the conversation to go.

My present therapist is also spontanious where I never know what we are gonig to be talking about that day because we talk about so many different things in my sessions. each one of my sessions don't center on one specific topic. If I am having a problem that day that is what we talk about, if she sees me as going down the wrong thoughts and directions she flat out tells me - "Don't go there, that is not where you want to go" and so on.

Basically my therapists and I always have the type of therapy relationship where we can say anything and everything to each other that way my education and avoidance skills and so on don't interfere with my therapy programs.

Suggestion - talk with your therapist and let that professional know you are having this problem so the two of you can work on solutions that will enable you to benefit from your therapy program. Why pay mega bucks to a therapist who cannot get past the walls of education and avoidance and so on right. You are the consumer and so you are in charge of what you want to get out of what you are buying. So talk with your therapist and set up some thing that will let her know when you are second quessing him/her and so on so you will get the most for your money if you want to think of it this way.

So what comes next after recognizing you do this?

100% honesty with your therapist as to what is happening.

hang in there

[JonB]

That would frustrate me too. I always find myself disregarding the things they say that I already know. I like a T who specialized in something other than CBT where our sessions are less structured and things just sort of go with the flow. That way, I'm always paying attention to what's going on and not thinking about what I already know. For me, it's less of a feeling of partcipating in a specific course of treatment and more a general exploration of the relationship and how I'm changing. But mine is more a long-term thing than the specific goals that CBT is often used for. Maybe you should try a T with a background in a different theory - like psychodynamic or something. I prefer to just see what unfolds to checking off lists and behaviors - but that's just me. Good luck.

Yup psychodynamic therapy is the kind of therapy I am in...that way as already said here its the relationship that is the focus...and who knows how relationships go LOL..

[Rapunzel]

Making the jump between identifying cognitive distortions and actually confronting them and changing them can be a challenge no matter how much background you have. I'm a graduate student studying psychology and counseling, and I get stuck there too. I bet that most people do, no matter what their background is. My T is primarily psychodynamic, but uses whatever seems appropriate (she's tried just about everything on me, trying to find something that works!). Sometimes it's in combination, and sometimes she comments on the blend that she is trying at the moment. Cognitive gets thrown in there often because I do have tons of distortions. Particularly after I told her about doing a presentation for a class on cognitive distortions that was what we did for a while. She was not pleased when I merely labeled my distortions and left it at that, telling me that it was not meant to be some intellectual activity, but an actual therapy to be used to change thoughts and behavior. She expected me to figure out how to put it to actual use, so I had to read more about it.

You might want to study The Feeling Good Handbook. While the book does continually revisit the basic distortions, it also offers many strategies for changing your thoughts. One chapter (Chapter 6, p. 97) is called Ten Ways to Untwist Your Thinking. It goes into the strategies and the situations that each might work best for. There is more information than I can type here right now, so I'll just give you the list:
1. Identify the Distortions
2. Examine the Evidence
3. The Double-Standard Method
4. The Experimental Technique
5. Thinking in Shades of Gray
6. The Survey Method
7. Define Terms
8. The Semantic Method
9. Re-attribution
10. Cost-Benefit Analysis

If one doesn't work, keep trying with another one. You have to actually confront your distortions and explain to yourself not only which distortion it is, but what makes it a distortion and what the truth is in that matter. It takes a lot of practice, and if you have been in the habit of distorting a lot, it is hard to change.

I don't think there is really any such thing as knowing too much psychology for therapy to work (Although sometimes you can do too much intellectualizing and avoid applying what you know to yourself). I'm finding that the more I learn, the better I understand what is supposed to happen, and the better I cooperate and make progress. It's not about tricking you, but rather helping you to understand where you are in life and how to get to where you want to be.

Best of luck with all this,
Rap

[Perna]

I think the answer embrace, is in your name :-) You have to interact with people, get out of your head entirely, do what is most scary/difficult for you. Reading about things and "predicting" what therapists will say can't help because you're not "there" in any conversation. I can predict that if I say "Hello" you'll say "Hi" back, too :-) But "knowing" that doesn't disappoint/bore me like you were in group, or make me feel "safe" because I know the answer, because I'm going to be wanting to hear what you'll say next (like one's therapist wants to know) and hope you'll want to get to know me by what I'll say next. Will I walk on and not want to say/know more? Think how if the conversation is expanded so someone says "Hi, how are you?" (which is a greeting usually rather than a question) the other person automatically says, "Fine" (whether they are or not when it's two people who are acquaintances rather than good friends -- because it is just a greeting, not an invitation to spill one's guts). But in group/therapy and with good friends (like us :-) the rules change and your therapist shouldn't be able to predict what you'll say next.

It's not what your therapist will say that is important, it's what you respond, what you learn about yourself that is important in therapy. Get out of your head by checking your heart instead!

maybe the problem isn't the cognitive distortions...

the best techniques for phobias aren't actually the 'cognitive' aspects of CBT they are the behavioural aspects. The aspects that teach you via EXPERIENCE that things are okay rather than the 'tell yourself one hundred times a day and then you will believe it' strategy (which might well work were it not for the unfortunate fact that some emotional responses are ENCAPSULATED from higher cognitive processes).

Personally, I've never found too much learning to be a bad thing. If a t thinks it is then in my experience is that we are not well suited. There are t's out there who APPRECIATE their clients taking an active involvement in their recovery and they understand that learning about it is one way of attempting to do that. I've never found it to be problematic that I know what t is going to say (that happens as you start to internalise their responses anyway). What I do have problems with, however, is lack of empathy. Whether your t was empathetic or not sure doesn't sound like empathy was conveyed to you...