Home Menu

Menu


Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 02:33 AM
NoddaProbBob NoddaProbBob is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2014
Location: US
Posts: 156
Hello,
I was hoping to direct this towards a social worker who has some experience in the field already.

I was wondering if, according to the Social Work Code of Ethics, if a social worker is required to report another social worker if they have violated their ethics.

I am a Counselor in Training and according to the Counseling Code of Ethics, a Counselor is required to report another Counselor to the licensure board when we know that they are in violation of their Ethics.

About a year ago I was seeing a Therapist who is a Licensed Social Worker. She eventually had to leave the office due to a layoff and I transitioned to another Therapist who also happens to be a Licensed Social Worker.

The first Social Worker did something that I know is in violation of the ethics. She did not physically harm me or harass me or anything like that, but either way, it was in violation of the Ethics. I am finally ready to talk to my new Therapist about how it hurt me and I just want to make sure before I open my mouth that I am not going to get anyone in trouble.

The first therapist helped me so much, but the way our relationship ended hurt me. Eventually this hurt became a huge barrier to my recovery that I am now just finally ready to open up about it. And it's been about a year now that this has happened.

So anyways. I just wanted to know what the consensus was. I tried to look through the Ethics code myself but it was getting meticulous.

I need to keep moving forward in my recovery and I fear that if I do not address this issue, that I am going to continue staying stuck in my current state of misery.

Thanks in advance!

advertisement
  #2  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 12:36 PM
tametc's Avatar
tametc tametc is offline
Grand Member
 
Member Since: Oct 2012
Location: Wisconsin USA
Posts: 953
I googled it. National Association of Social Workers Code of Ethics, Section 2, starting with 2.09.
__________________
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I sometimes lapse into moments of temporary lucidity.
  #3  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 12:43 PM
HazelGirl's Avatar
HazelGirl HazelGirl is offline
Elder
 
Member Since: Jan 2014
Location: USA
Posts: 5,248
Could you bring it up without mentioning names? It sounds like it is very important that you at least tell your T what happened, even if you don't say who it was that hurt you.
__________________
HazelGirl
PTSD, Depression, ADHD, Anxiety
Propranolol 10mg as needed for anxiety, Wellbutrin XL 150mg
  #4  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 01:26 PM
NoddaProbBob NoddaProbBob is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2014
Location: US
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by tametc View Post
I googled it. National Association of Social Workers Code of Ethics, Section 2, starting with 2.09.
I jumped down a few sections and saw it. Not sure how I missed it to begin with. I think I was looking somewhere else.

Thank you for looking that up for me
  #5  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 01:42 PM
NoddaProbBob NoddaProbBob is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2014
Location: US
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by HazelGirl View Post
Could you bring it up without mentioning names? It sounds like it is very important that you at least tell your T what happened, even if you don't say who it was that hurt you.
I had thought about it that way but the situation is so specific, my T would be like, uh, why are you tip toeing around her name? Basically she would know.

The office I go to is a small not for profit so all of the T's there know one another well. Many of them have been working together for several years. My old T was there for 7 years. Due to budget cuts, they eliminated several therapists. Her included.

I have mentioned it to the new T a couple of times about the relationship with the old T. She knows just how close we were. She asked me like after our second session where I was with ending that relationship and I started bawling. I could hardly make out a coherent sentence. The old T helped me through one of the most horrific experiences of my life and I was devastated when she left. I took several months off before even going back. I don't think I have ever loved someone so much in my life.

So when I eventually did go back and start over with this new T, we got no where. In fact, it has been like 2 and a half months of just talking because I have been so unable to let her in. I got tired of leaving session feeling like I was wasting both her time and mine. So I tried to get to the root of why it wasn't working and it was that attachment to the old T. So I took a few weeks off from therapy and tried to figure out what I needed to do to move forward. And it kept coming back to that relationship. So I wrote some cathartic letters, processed it, cried about it, was angry about it. And I don't know. It's like I moved into a different stage of grief. I am almost into acceptance. I am about 3/4 into acceptance and a 1/4 in anger.

So even though I have done this work, I feel like there's that last bit that I need to process. And that's what I've been holding back from the new T. I know that they knew each other well so I almost feel guilty in a way bringing it up. But if I don't, I am not going to move forward with any T. I feel like I need to tell someone. And aside from here, I have no one else to tell. So I think it will help me to tell and will help the new T to understand why I've been so mistrusting and emotionally unavailable to her.

I've tried everything else I can think of to help myself at this point. This is all I have left.
  #6  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 02:01 PM
amandalouise's Avatar
amandalouise amandalouise is offline
Wise Elder
 
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: 8CS / NYS / USA
Posts: 9,171
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoddaProbBob View Post
Hello,
I was hoping to direct this towards a social worker who has some experience in the field already.

I was wondering if, according to the Social Work Code of Ethics, if a social worker is required to report another social worker if they have violated their ethics.

I am a Counselor in Training and according to the Counseling Code of Ethics, a Counselor is required to report another Counselor to the licensure board when we know that they are in violation of their Ethics.

About a year ago I was seeing a Therapist who is a Licensed Social Worker. She eventually had to leave the office due to a layoff and I transitioned to another Therapist who also happens to be a Licensed Social Worker.

The first Social Worker did something that I know is in violation of the ethics. She did not physically harm me or harass me or anything like that, but either way, it was in violation of the Ethics. I am finally ready to talk to my new Therapist about how it hurt me and I just want to make sure before I open my mouth that I am not going to get anyone in trouble.

The first therapist helped me so much, but the way our relationship ended hurt me. Eventually this hurt became a huge barrier to my recovery that I am now just finally ready to open up about it. And it's been about a year now that this has happened.

So anyways. I just wanted to know what the consensus was. I tried to look through the Ethics code myself but it was getting meticulous.

I need to keep moving forward in my recovery and I fear that if I do not address this issue, that I am going to continue staying stuck in my current state of misery.

Thanks in advance!
here in NY sometimes treatment providers are required to report another treatment provider other times they are not.

example here if a treatment provider knows a child whether its a treatment provider or someone else harming a child in physical, emotional or sexual ways they are bound by NY state law due to being a mandated reporter under child abuse laws.

but if for example a treatment provider is physically, emotionally or sexually abusing or engages in consensual sexual relationship with their clients another treatment provider can if they wish report it but ultimately its the adult client responsibility to make the abuse report. there are special cases such as if the client fall under the special needs/disabled adult category where by law that client is deemed incompetent to make their own mental and physical health decisions.

here in Ny when a report goes in to the ethics board about a social workers possible breach of ethics what happens is the social worker and the one making the report must go to a hearing where both sides have to give testimony of what happened. if the person making the report is not the person the event happened to the victim gets a notice that they too must attend the hearing so that the ethics board has not only the reporters side and the social workers side but also the victims side. after all testimony is given the board decides whether a breach of ethics actually happened and if so what punishment to impose...

punishment is usually things like....

the first so called punishment is loss of client meaning that therapist can no longer be that clients therapist. sometimes and in alot of cases this is the only action the ethics board recommends. and in some cases the client is already no longer on the social workers case load by the time it goes to hearing stage anyway which is why I say so called punishment. its not really a punishment if its already happened.

the next step up is a monetary value (a fine kind of like when someone gets a speeding ticket they have to pay for doing wrong) the next step up in punishment here in NY is a fine and probationary period (thats like if if someone commits the crime of shop lifting and they get put on probation and pay for what they stole.)

the next step up in ethics punishment here in NY is loss of credentials and cant work in the field of mental health for so many days, months or years.

the next step up is total loss of credentials. they can no longer be a therapist in the state of NY. that doesnt mean they cant move to another state and get their credentials there.

then if the crime is more serious prison time can result...example embezzlement, child sexual abuse and other prison related crimes.

one thing you need to know is that ......most.... times no matter what you tell someone about something that happened to you, once you turn/turned 18 the law says its your responsibilty/decision whether something about you and abuse or what ever with your treatment treatment providers/family/friends and strangers alike, gets told or not, get reported or not and gets prosecuted or not. even more so if you are no longer in contact with that person that may have harmed you. usually in ethic, state laws and national laws theres whats called a statute of limitations...that how long that breach of ethics, or crime can be acted upon, after that statute of limitations time passes no matter what happened nothing can be done. even with something as simple as debt collection has a statute of limitations attached to it, here in america.

my suggestion talk with your treatment provider they can help you research your options and let you know how long after the breath of ethics, crime what ever happened can be acted upon and what your options are for reporting/prosecuting and whether your no longer being this therapists client affects anything. there are many different breaches of ethics where the only action the ethic board imposes is removing that client from that treatment providers care.
  #7  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 02:25 PM
Perna's Avatar
Perna Perna is offline
Pandita-in-training
 
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 27,289
You do not ever have to report someone, you may, if you choose:
Social Worker Code of Ethics
From: https://www.socialworkers.org/pubs/code/default.asp

No one else can report what happened to you though, except you; they were not there and were not part of the problem and you are not a child. Your current social worker may give her opinion of how the other social worker handled things but that's about it because she does not have first-hand information of what was said/done, why, responses, etc.
__________________
"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance." ~Confucius
  #8  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 06:46 PM
Anonymous35535
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
A code is just a guide for people to follow. There is no law or oath that says it has to be followed.

Whatever it is I hope you get the clarity you need to make a decision.
  #9  
Old Apr 28, 2014, 08:15 PM
Lauliza's Avatar
Lauliza Lauliza is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Nov 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3,231
There is a code, but it's not set in stone that it is followed at all times. Its more like a guideline and it is the same with the Counselor code of Ethics (I'm a T in training too). It's one of those things where you need to use your judgement and weigh the pros and the cons of formally reporting someone.

In this particular case, maybe you can talk about it without using names. You are in no way required to name anyone if you don't want to.

The only time this is not true is in cases of suspected child abuse or neglect, where failure to report by a T, teacher, doctor, etc.. could result in legal action. Otherwise, this is your choice.
  #10  
Old May 01, 2014, 03:00 AM
NoddaProbBob NoddaProbBob is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2014
Location: US
Posts: 156
I understand that it is a "code" but it is an ethics code.

I know for me, I take ethics pretty seriously. I want a T that takes ethics seriously because it protects both of us.

And if it's not taken seriously, then why have it? If it were just guidelines, it wouldn't be called a code. The codes distinguish what is and is not considered ethic per profession.

I suppose I'm taken aback by how lightly it has been taken here just on this thread.

If it's just a "guide", why then do counselors, social workers, psychologists, etc, who do not adhere to these "guides" have restrictions, probations, and even complete removal of their licenses when they are in violation of the code?

Because it's not just a guide. There are codes for a reason. You don't just get to pick and choose which ones seem ok to follow some of the time.

Lauliza, are you in a CACREP accredited program? I urge you to either take an ethics course or re-take it. It scares me that you're a Counselor in training and yet seem to only view the code as a guideline. I get that there are certain situations where for the benefit of the client, that some codes may need to be bent. But they are codes, not guidelines.
  #11  
Old May 01, 2014, 06:53 AM
Perna's Avatar
Perna Perna is offline
Pandita-in-training
 
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Maryland
Posts: 27,289
It's a group thing. The social workers got together and decided what they wanted for ethics and they police them; each individual does pick and choose which ones they want to follow and which they bend or break, just as you and I have our "I would never. . ." and then find ourselves doing whatever it is because the map is not the territory and interpretation and perception can change when you actually experience a situation instead of just read about it.

However, you and I do not let others police us and we may not give ourselves restrictions, probation, or sanction when we violate our personal code, or, perhaps we do which is why so many of us see counselors/therapists in the first place, because we can be too hard on ourselves or listen too closely to others.

You say your first social worker did not harm or harass you, just that she violated the social workers organization's ethics (or maybe you only know the counselors ethics?) but you are not a social worker. I think you take the "letter of the law" a bit too strongly. The ethic codes are not that exact in their interpretation; we're all humans here.
__________________
"Never give a sword to a man who can't dance." ~Confucius
  #12  
Old May 01, 2014, 06:57 AM
Anonymous33211
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
What did she do? You say that she did not harm you, but was she abusive?
  #13  
Old May 01, 2014, 07:14 AM
Anonymous37890
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
My ex-therapist violated ethics, but it wasn't abusive. There really isn't much done about violations like that.
Thanks for this!
NoddaProbBob
  #14  
Old May 01, 2014, 06:21 PM
tametc's Avatar
tametc tametc is offline
Grand Member
 
Member Since: Oct 2012
Location: Wisconsin USA
Posts: 953
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoddaProbBob View Post
I jumped down a few sections and saw it. Not sure how I missed it to begin with. I think I was looking somewhere else.

Thank you for looking that up for me
You are very welcome. Hankster and I are usually the curious ones on here who do the googling.

That's why I have the emoticons as the last line of my signature.
__________________
"Well-behaved women seldom make history." - Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
I sometimes lapse into moments of temporary lucidity.
Thanks for this!
NoddaProbBob
  #15  
Old May 01, 2014, 08:43 PM
Lauliza's Avatar
Lauliza Lauliza is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Nov 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3,231
Yes I am in an accredited program and I understand what ethics are and also understand that except under certain situations of course, another T is not required to report another T. You can report her but the other T doesn't have to. They are guidelines in the respect that if a client doesn't want to fild a complaint against a t for en ethics violation, they should not be forced to. Like I said, it's a judgement call and is situation specific. I don't think there was any reason to judge or insult me. I respect ethics and respect the law and am sorry you've been hurt so badly. But the reality is that humans make mistakes. I know psychologists who have had complaints filed against them by patients for various (non abusive) reasons, and nothing has ever been done. It's the nature of the error that dictates the outcome.

Last edited by Lauliza; May 01, 2014 at 08:57 PM.
  #16  
Old May 02, 2014, 02:33 AM
NoddaProbBob NoddaProbBob is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2014
Location: US
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perna View Post
It's a group thing. The social workers got together and decided what they wanted for ethics and they police them; each individual does pick and choose which ones they want to follow and which they bend or break, just as you and I have our "I would never. . ." and then find ourselves doing whatever it is because the map is not the territory and interpretation and perception can change when you actually experience a situation instead of just read about it.

However, you and I do not let others police us and we may not give ourselves restrictions, probation, or sanction when we violate our personal code, or, perhaps we do which is why so many of us see counselors/therapists in the first place, because we can be too hard on ourselves or listen too closely to others.

You say your first social worker did not harm or harass you, just that she violated the social workers organization's ethics (or maybe you only know the counselors ethics?) but you are not a social worker. I think you take the "letter of the law" a bit too strongly. The ethic codes are not that exact in their interpretation; we're all humans here.
As I said in a previous post, I do believe that there are some situations in which for the benefit of the client, that some of the ethics code can be bent or broken. However, you and Lauliza both have said that out of the codes, an individual can pick or choose which ones to follow. Which in my opinion is an absurd way to approach the topic. For instance, we all know that a T should never have a sexual relationship with a client. So, by your definition of following the codes, a T could choose whether or not to follow this specific code.
You said "we are all humans here" and mentioned ideas about interpretation. What if a T "interpreted" the code concerning sexual relationships to not be in violation of the ethics?
It doesn't make any sense.
Again, why have the codes at all, let alone police them, if T's can pick and choose which ones to follow?
  #17  
Old May 02, 2014, 02:39 AM
NoddaProbBob NoddaProbBob is offline
Member
 
Member Since: Mar 2014
Location: US
Posts: 156
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lauliza View Post
Yes I am in an accredited program and I understand what ethics are and also understand that except under certain situations of course, another T is not required to report another T. You can report her but the other T doesn't have to. They are guidelines in the respect that if a client doesn't want to fild a complaint against a t for en ethics violation, they should not be forced to. Like I said, it's a judgement call and is situation specific. I don't think there was any reason to judge or insult me. I respect ethics and respect the law and am sorry you've been hurt so badly. But the reality is that humans make mistakes. I know psychologists who have had complaints filed against them by patients for various (non abusive) reasons, and nothing has ever been done. It's the nature of the error that dictates the outcome.
I was not attempting to insult you. My concern was genuine.

I agree that the nature of the error does dictate the outcome.

My conveyed ideas were not meant to start a debate. I asked a question about Social Worker ethics because I was unfamiliar with them, and only familiar with the Counselor ethics, and I know they are not exactly the same. The agency that my T is affiliated with takes ethics very seriously so I wanted to clarify before moving forward with what I want to share.
  #18  
Old May 02, 2014, 12:49 PM
Lauliza's Avatar
Lauliza Lauliza is offline
Grand Magnate
 
Member Since: Nov 2009
Location: United States
Posts: 3,231
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoddaProbBob View Post
I was not attempting to insult you. My concern was genuine.

I agree that the nature of the error does dictate the outcome.

My conveyed ideas were not meant to start a debate. I asked a question about Social Worker ethics because I was unfamiliar with them, and only familiar with the Counselor ethics, and I know they are not exactly the same. The agency that my T is affiliated with takes ethics very seriously so I wanted to clarify before moving forward with what I want to share.
From the National Association of Social Workers Code of Ethics, which better articulates what I and a couple of other people were trying to convey:

"The NASW Code of Ethics is to be used by NASW and by individuals, organizations, and bodies (such as licensing and regulatory boards, professional liability insurance providers, courts of law, agency boards of directors, government agencies, and other professional groups) that choose to adopt it or use it as a frame of reference. Violation of standards in this Code does not automatically imply legal liability or violation of the law..." It goes on to state that "some of the codes are enforceable while others are aspirational". So it really depends on which code was violated and how.

Also if you look at the ACA code of ethics, section I.2, it does not say that a counselor is always required to report another counselor if they have witnessed an ethical violation. Of course in all cases this is only so long as a client has not been abused or harmed. Otherwise it is not that black and white.

Last edited by Lauliza; May 02, 2014 at 01:10 PM.
Reply
Views: 1774

attentionThis is an old thread. You probably should not post your reply to it, as the original poster is unlikely to see it.




All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:59 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® — Copyright © 2000 - 2025, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.




 

My Support Forums

My Support Forums is the online community that was originally begun as the Psych Central Forums in 2001. It now runs as an independent self-help support group community for mental health, personality, and psychological issues and is overseen by a group of dedicated, caring volunteers from around the world.

 

Helplines and Lifelines

The material on this site is for informational purposes only, and is not a substitute for medical advice, diagnosis or treatment provided by a qualified health care provider.

Always consult your doctor or mental health professional before trying anything you read here.