Why do you believe what the therapist says?

It's not necessary for some types of therapy. Like CBT. Other than that it's a bit of a paradox because they are there professionally to treat your emotions. Would you shut your mouth at a dentist office? Going to therapy without exposing the thing you are there to treat is a waste of time and money. Why go?

I found cbt to be worse than any other kind for me. I understand it works for some and I don't doubt it it does for them who say it has.

I just wondered why people seemed to believe or be reassured etc. - so I asked.

Stopdog,

I appreciate your perspective on things.
I am glad you asked.

Pre

Self talk doesn't really work for me. It helps to have a steady rational perspective that I can trust. So far just relying on my perspective hasn't done me much good so it's been useful to get a second opinion. It's honest and more accurate than what I tell myself or what a friend or family member would say. He's not going to tell me just to suck it up everything's fine when I'm minimizing and trying to maintain the idea that everything's fine when it's not. I don't take everything he says as true for me but some stuff is helpful.

Why not?

Again, I think it depends on the person and on what one is in therapy for. It might be what someone needs for various reasons. There are people who need someone to make them see things.
I don't always believe my therapist is right. She usually is, for what I need, and it's ok for me that sometimes she helps me see what I can't acknowledge. But I am more than happy to point out the things I don't agree with, if any. It is important that she gets things, that's what I have hired her for after all.

because I don't believe I am worth anything... most of the time I did't trust T and questioned if she wasn't only being reassuring out of "duty" but then we talked about it and I felt she was genuine. I often look to others for reassurance because I don;t trust myself.

Maybe it taps into the same part of my brain that derives pleasure from a friend telling me kind things. I'll be honest stopdog, you talk so poorly of your t that I can't figure out why you go. I've seen my t for six years and no, is not a friendship but it is a positive relationship in my life. I'm not like others here who feel love for their t - I very much see him as a professional - but he has proven himself worthy of my respect. It makes me think of college when I had a prof whom I respected in my area speak will of my work. I trust their expertise and a compliment or reassurance of my skills means surfing because they have the knowledge to speak with some level of authority. So maybe on a spectrum somewhere between friendship and mentor?

I think it is an interesting question and I struggle to trust much of what the therapist tells me - and I'm not convinced most of the time. But, there are some times when he can show me my distorted thinking. I don't believe blanket statements of reassurance, but therapy has been most useful to me when he can provide facts that call into question some difficult, yet strong beliefs about myself.

For example, my frequent mantra in therapy is "emotions are the enemy" or lately more "f*$k feelings". That belief isn't right or wrong, its mine. But, I then have a very very difficult time when I experience strong emotion - something I was able to avoid until just a few years ago. Currently, my young son is away for two weeks for the first time - and its hard for me. I'm worried about him, I miss him, etc. And those feelings - I absolutely hate them! It sends me down a thought trail that I'm overbearing and hyper-protective - which means I must be a pretty lousy mother. Loving him this much and worrying about him = using him to gratify some of my own needs.

The therapist initially said my reaction was totally normal. Of course mothers miss their children when they go away for the first time and worry about them. So what, not at all a help to me and I didn't believe him. Then, he pointed out that not only did I have pretty lousy parents and so don't have a model of what a healthy child/ parent relationship is like - but additionally, I had an ex-husband that was extremely critical of any nurturance I provided my children, even as infants. He was totally right and it felt right.

This enabled me to see that my reactions weren't necessarily the result of an unhealthy and damaging attachment to my son, but fairly typical. And, after all, if I was that overbearing and overprotective, I wouldn't have let him go away for two weeks to a place that didn't allow phone calls or email.

I know that is a long-winded reply, but I didn't know a more succinct way to get my point across. Stopdog, I agree with many of your perspectives and this very question is one I've asked my friends who are in therapy when they seem so effortlessly comforted by their therapists' kinder, gentler view. But recently I have experienced times where my therapist offered facts that shifted my perspective in a way that was helpful, illuminating - and therefore reassuring.

I don't despise the woman and she stays back. I don't see that I speak poorly of her, she simply does not strike me as being useful when she talks. I have found a way to make her useful, even if not the way many find the one (s) they see useful. She has tried saying some of the things others seem to find useful. I did not. I wondered why others did.

You refer to her as "the woman."

I don't know if you realize, but that is not the way most people would describe someone they even feel neutral about. I would say it either sounds like you dislike her/disrespect her, which still begs the question, why go? You can talk to the wall.

The other theory that comes to mind, which I doubt you would be amenable to, is that somewhere deep inside you, you do like and respect her, but are creating distance wherever possible. Maybe to sheild yourself from rejection/hurt that you have experienced in the past. It makes sense. It's how our brain works. If people are so often in your life actually been unworthy of trust, why should the woman be any different?

Trust is hard for us who have been screwed over again and again. For me I've been stuck in limbo of this. Intellectually, I know my T has always followed through. He shows that he cares sincerely. He is honest and doesn't just slather on 'feel good' crap that I hate. (he does do it, but if he over does it I get pissed off). He has gotten me to a much better place, and I'm begrudgingly grateful. (I hate dependence)

Emotionally, I can't get there. I have a thick wall around myself and even though I know on my logical side I CAN trust him, I just don't emotionally. I can't get to my core issues. Its frustrating. At this point my T is trying to get me to try other therapists as he thinks it might be something about him thats triggering. I dont know.

I find benefit or at least interesting experiment in telling the therapist rather than the wall. I find no benefit in her talking back to me.
I do not despise her as I mentioned. I would go no further than that but think what you will.

I do not see "the woman" as a strange phrase. Sometimes I use the therapist, but use the woman to be more personal. I find the possessive terms used towards a therapist much odder. I usually call the dentist or the accountant I hire - the dentist or the accountant - I rarely if ever use possessives in these types of business interactions.

We believe what our T's tell us because we think it's their job to be honest, true, wise and objective. They are supposed to look into the bits of our lives/mental health that's troubling us and be able to help and support us with it. Stopdog, I can see that you distrust or doubt your T's abilities (and from some of the things you've said she's done, I can see why) but for some of us our T's are our safety blankets...we trust their abilities and they are more than competent and have helped us greatly.

It doesn't really matter what i think. All that should matter, as with any healthcare worker, is that you should be able to respect them, and they you. I think what I like about mine is that even though he can be confident (albeit a smart-*** sometimes), he always listens to what I say, respects it and is willing to admit when he is wrong, or doesn't know something. He's very real and is who he is.

I believe that the way I talk to myself in my own head is just replicating the negative things my family would say growing up. My therapists' way of dealing with me is more constructive, more balance towards self-correcting instead of self-flagellation. What T's say is not just feel-good nonsense, it is a reframing of the same issue…

For example…
old parental negativity stuck in my head:
"My boss is unhappy with me at work, I can't believe I'm such an f-up."

therapist's way:
"My boss is unhappy with me at work, I need to pinpoint what she wants me to do differently."

My main T once went through depression himself and was in treatment all while he was training to be a therapist. I value his expertise on the subject and his personal struggle with his own issues. He is a humble guy so he never comes across as a know-it-all.

If either of my T's give me reason to question what they are saying, I bring it up. Sometimes I think their answers are evasive or sheer BS but it is comforting to know that they are human too and are not perfect.

I guess with therapy I use what I can use and dismiss the rest as T's own blind spots.

PS Some of the things you mention Stopdog, make me wonder if the reason you are looking for something different from your T than many of us boils down to attachment style.

On another thread, you had mentioned possibly having a dismissive attachment style? Maybe a therapist with a different attachment style from yours assumes too much about what you need. Maybe they assume you want reassurance, feedback etc because they don't understand the needs of a dismissive attachment style.

Maybe they are even actively trying to convert you over to a "secure attachment" style when that isn't one of your goals. Just wondering.

Well he is one to say I know myself better than anyone else.... I guess one reason is that I pay him for his expertise. He's had several decades observing and learning about human motivations and behavior; why wouldn't his knowledge be more intensive than mine?

Isn't it similar to your giving people legal advice? Why would people think your advice is the correct idea to follow?

Partly for the same reasons I ever believe anyone, give anyone power, or think anyone is righter than I am. If I never thought I was wrong when others had a different point of view, that seems like it would be pretty elitist, lonely, sad, and inaccurate. I often try to consider the other person's point of view if they disagree with mine; I often try to think of ways to accommodate their thinking within mine, or just to change mine, so I can be more accepting and understand more realities. There are also situations where I have strong beliefs- or experience or knowledge- and then I'm okay with disagreeing with their thinking though.

I guess maybe that's kind of my ideal or somewhat-default approach to people in general, whether they're young, old, accomplished, un-accomplished, retarded, gifted, street-savvy, street-ignorant, etc. I hope they have some realities I can identify with and enjoy or learn with them.

Another part of a reason I'm inclined to believe a therapist is because their job is to help me, and I think most of them want to do that, and that they are trying and possibly have some abilities or skills to do that, the same as most professionals make an effort with their jobs and their skills.

I was not challenging those of you who do or trying to talk you out of it nor was I looking for anyone to criticize how I do it. I just wondered if you knew why you did or how it helped you since it is in no way what I find useful. I like to hear how and why even while it is not what approach works for me and since I find this so very baffling.

I hope I didn't come across as criticizing, it wasn't my intention if I did. I was just wondering out loud why your T does not adapt to what you need or if she is even aligned with your goals.

Sorry, I know that wasn't the original question!

No you did not. No worries.

i would say it is the objectivity they have about my life. of course a T or anyone else would have to win my trust over before i'd put any stock in what they are saying. as another person who has struggled with depression i know my thinking is negative and off-base sometimes and i am not always able to see possible solutions. unfortunately, my experience has not been one where Ts have given much insight at all. i would love that. i did have a mentor, who happened to be a T, who gave wonderful insight but we weren't even doing therapy. after meeting with her i always left feeling hopeful and like i had gained some insight into very tough questions in life. stop, i think we probably live in the same state. i do sort of wonder if it is the way they are trained in that state. they just don't seem to give insight.

bottom line i think it is about trust. it doesn't make sense to believe what a T or anyone else says if one doesn't trust them to either know their stuff or have some insight into the client's life. stop, if you don't mind my asking, do you think a T can be trustworthy or is that not possible since it is a paid, professional relationship? are those mutually exclusive? for me they are not mutually exclusive but i still haven't found a helpful T.

I don't always believe what she says and I let her know immediately when I disagree and I am not okay with something (when I am consciously aware that something bothers me).

I do, however, believe in positive mirroring. It may not be necessary for many cases but in my case, I have experienced negative mirroring ever since my toddler years. Now I deal with self worth, self confidence, and self-love/care issues. I never had anyone model "healthy habits" and I never had much structure.
I have noticed myself mirroring some of her self-care and respect habits. Sometimes I feel like a small child watching her mom's facial reactions to certain words or situations and observing her body language. So sometimes if she looks sad, I feel sad...when she laughs or smiles, I feel happy...When she is tense and appears mad, I feel either shame or I feel mad as well (she uses this appropriately, not to make me feel ashamed). It's like when a 2 year old falls and immediately looks at their caregiver to see their reaction...They don't feel physical pain necessarily, but they are startled and are not sure how to react. The parents who make a scene usually teach their child to cry and feel scared when they are injured. Or if another adult offers them a treat and they look at their caregiver before taking it.

It's like I'm not sure how to match the correct emotions and reactions to things. I give the wrong amount of weight and proportion to many things and she has helped a lot with that.

I believe he doesnt lie to me and is honest but i disagree with some things he says and sometimes i think his thoughts about me and my situations are wrong and he cant understand. But its just normal that sometimes cant understand everything. Sometimes i cant explain things.

I think it is possible for a therapist to be trustworthy in some ways such as general confidentiality. The payment part is not what would make a therapist trustworthy or not as far as I can see.

What growlycat said about attachment styles really made sense to me, though, Stopdog. Many of us have a change in attachment styles as a goal, either consciously or unconsciously, and I'm willing to get the therapists we see also see a change in attachment style as a goal.

My goal initially was only to be less depressed, but the process of therapy has changed my attachment style, and changed my relationships for the better, in my opinion. If, however, you are perfectly satisfied with your relationships and the way your attachment style impacts your life, it would make sense to me that most therapeutic relationships would feel baffling and off-putting. My T mentioned at one point trying to get me to see that relying on others did not equal death or abdication of my autonomy. At the time, my response was along the lines of 'that's stupid, of course it does.' Now it does not seem so stupid, although still quite difficult for me.

Anyway, this discussion is quite interesting, although I regret parts seem to be making you feel attacked.