Overwhlemed and she's fed up with me, ha

I am feeling so frustrated with my therapist. A while back she offered to let me do one email session per week, over a three day span, for a $50 fee. This was knowing that in addition I would be paying her regular hourly rate for two hours of live session time per week, so it's not like she's not earning anything from me.

I did NOT ask for this. I did NOT ask for any type of discount or consideration.

She offered it to me. And when she did, she said that she might need to charge more if the email session was extra long or involved, BUT that she would ask me first.

The first time, I offered more, because it was really long.
The second time, she charged more without asking. I got up my courage and mentioned that discrepancy to her. She said my concern was legitimate and she was sorry. She even offered a credit, but I know her time is valuable and told her I would pay the full fee that time.

Another time she asked for a higher fee and I accepted.

Only maybe 2 or 3 times has she kept to the fee she offered of $50.

Today again, she charged more and said, ALONG with the invoice "hope you don't mind" So... I brought it up again.

In addition, she recently offered to end our sessions at the one hour mark to help me not overspend. I was managing the time myself but not doing well with that, not well enough. But last week, she let me go 25 minutes over, and I pay by the minute. This week, she let me go 16 minutes over. That's an extra $67, not to mention the extra email fees.

I don't feel like she's much better at limits than me.

She promised me to manage the time, and is not. She offered me a flat fee and to ask if she was going to raise it, and isn't consistently doing that.

When I brought it up today, she said she'd ask next time, that she expected me to speak up instead of paying the invoice if I didn't agree to it. But to me, asking me to argue it is entirely different than her asking if it is alright. That's not what she told me, not what she explained or offered.

I'm having a really stressful time and I told her to just please close out the new session we just started today and invoice me.

She says she's really fed up with this:

"Oh good God, Leah, I told you I would be sure and ask first in the future. I am really fed up with this, XXXXXXXX"

I just need a break from her I guess.

I'm at that point where I have way too much on my plate, reasonably speaking, and... I just can't deal with this. Maybe it's just a little thing to her, and I don't know if I seem petty, but, it's not little to me.

I know I'm literal minded, but I've been telling her how much I'm struggling with money and twice last week she wrote to check up on me when I was trying to take a break, which led me to respond and have an unplanned email session, so I'm already $100 over for the week. (I think I need to tell her not to do that, or just send a "Thanks, I'm fine" reply, but when she writes me, I have this impulse to spill everything.)

It's my responsibility, ultimately, but I thought she could help me more, since she offered.

But I'm really stressed and fed up, and I don't know how to do this half-way. I just have to take a break or I'll be too stressed out by this and spending money I shouldn't.

I asked her once if she thought she had trouble with limits, because I told her I knew I did. She said she really didn't, but... I'm NOT sure.

Perhaps I expect more than is reasonable. I do not know. I just need some consistency right now, even if that means just being by myself for a while, because I need to keep it together. I need to keep it together and I can't deal with anything else, big or little, that stresses me out.

My daughter's home from school all week, I have to work my 60 hours, do school (am in college f/t), she has three doctor appointments, and we have a family obligation as well. My mother who came last week is now calling daily, video calls, and I have to stop that. And I guess I need a new computer for work, which I totally can't afford.

I want to be less busy and stressed. I don't know how to do it. I'm trying so hard to sleep well, eat okay, get some rest, take it easy...

and I can't. I just can't.

I'm in debt to my eyeballs, my daughter has ODD, hubby's a mixed bag, work is terrible since they laid off half my coworkers in February, schools' tough since they cancelled my classes last month and made them 'independent study' meaning no structure, and I want to run away atm, ha.

I think the real issue is here that she created a boundary and then isn't upholding it, and is expecting you to do so. That doesn't feel fair and it certainly doesn't feel fair that she's appearing to then take it out on you (whether she means it or not - but to say she's 'fed up' of it is out of line IMO).

Also I know it is an email therapy rather than face to face but in my experience the therapist usually minds the time, not the client, so that the client can focus on what is happening at the time.

Sorry you're feeling overwhelmed. It's so difficult to do the whole eating/sleeping/resting well thing when there is so much pressure.

Wow, to be honest that seems terrible... If your T knows that you struggle with money, if she says that she'd manage the timing, then she allows going over time and charge for it with a note "hope you don't mind"?? I'm speechless... And when you use your whole strength to stay away but your T reaches out to you and at the end you have an additional (of course not free) session? ... I'm really sorry, it makes me angry at your T, I know how great she was and is for you and how helpful but I cannot stop thinking that she just does whatever she can to get more money from you... I'm sorry, I didn't want to attack your T, maybe would it be possible to make an arrangement with her that you'll pay only for 60 min and if it goes over, it will be her fault so she won't charge you for it? Not that she will ask you if it's okay to pay more, but to agree before sessions that it is not okay and if she's as good as she claims in managing the session time she should be able to help you stopping after 60 min...

It would really piss me off to be treated like that after relying on her.

For the independent study, could you or you with someone from the school make up a schedule for you so that it would have some structure?

Thank you.

Ironically, we were planning to tackle that topic of creating structure in the course in our Friday session, but I think I need to cancel the session. It's too up and down, therapy is a stressor now, not a help. It's still a good idea though: I set up a meeting with the professor for Friday and I will ask him to help me. I am paying them so much... seems like he should be able to spare 20 more minutes to help me with this. The last independent study was my first one ever and was terrible. I lost my 4.0 on it.

I'm sorry for my reaction if it's hard...
But you know, a T and client both have responsibilities. The thing is though that she offered you this fee, and she offered you to keep track of the time. So she made a promise to you and didn't stick to it.
You say she doesn't seem to be good at setting her boundaries. Maybe she isn't. I could still understand that part of the story. But then when it comes to charging you money for it, she is!! That in my opinion makes it a lot worse. I really don't like this. And I'm very glad you had the courage to at least let her know that you didn't agree with the invoice. Although you shouldn't have to do that, you know...
I really really hope she will think about this and get back to you and apologize.

Wish you all the best

Thanks. It was a long email, the one she charged $75 for, but it was only two days, not three days, and it was in response to her saying she thought I was having an issue because she hadn't heard from me, which she did earlier that week too.

Sure, I always have issues, haha, I am in therapy, but the only "issue" involved in my not writing was trying to stick to my budget and just calm myself down after a difficult week, issues at work, school, and my mother's visit. I thought it would be good to just... decompress a bit instead of more writing to her which can be anxiety-inducing.

So, for her to charge more and not ask, just say "I'm charging more as this is a long thread, hope you don't mind." Well, she may see it as semantics, but I do not.

I care about the way I do business, and if I tell a client I'll charge them X rate, and then feel absolutely compelled to charge them more, I will sure as hell ask them. It's like a waitress saying the price of my meal went up since I ordered it, and they adjusted the bill accordingly. Granted, she's like an all-you-can-eat buffet, but she posted the price, NOT me. She made the offer. She said she'd ask before charging first and doesn't like it that I noticed this happened last time too.

I do hope she apologizes, but I think we need a break from each other for a while and I'm not holding my breath.

I will say she's very gracious about many things, but... well, I'll just say she's not perfect, no one is, sigh.

I'm so sorry you're struggling so much right now.

I think (and my T has told me many times) that it's the T's responsibility to manage time during the session. However, if your T is not doing so, and it's causing you problems, can you set an alarm or timer to go off at 55 minutes so you'll have 5 minutes to wind down?

I think you need to talk to your T about what you've written here. Talk - not email. As my T reminded me today, there's always a middle ground. It sounds like you could really use some support from your T right now, so maybe canceling the session isn't the best option. But it sounds like your T isn't totally providing the support you need and that should be discussed.

It seems a bit rude for her to initiate an email session and then expect you to pay for her time. I wouldn't go back to my therapist if she let time run over and then charge me.

Maybe she is getting tired of crossing lines and having to admit she has her own issues. It is wrong of her to hold you financially responsible for her failings. Just my opinion.

I love independent studies but it is not for everyone.

Best of luck to you.

Dear Leah,

It seems you have a right to be fussy with your T right now over the billing issues and time management. There is probably some errors on both sides that need to be clarified and rectified...

But I guess what I hear most is how stressed out you are and how much you are managing overall. I think that if you were not already so overwhelmed, this issue could have been dealt with more easily and the time spent detailing it and worrying about it would not have caused so much hurt.

I wondered if maybe it is time to just step back a little and think about which priorities in your life really need the extra time and attention and how you can get the support you need right now to handle an extremely heavy load. Can others facilitate you any more? Can you let a few things go or be more relaxed than normal while doing so much? Can you do something else to pat yourself on the back and get some encouragement for all that you are doing? I know money is tight with school and family and T...is there anything else that can help ease that stress a bit? Perhaps just flat out journaling until your fingers are numb to release some of that frustration? Maybe a long bath and pedicure at home with large sign saying DO NOT DISTURB for an hour??

I guess I'm just hoping that you can also be extra kind to yourself and perhaps get some extra perspective in terms of just how much you are doing. I'm really proud of you for being able to do all of this and for sticking up for yourself. I am in NO WAY invalidating your feelings about T and boundaries and money issues. You have legitimate concerns in many areas that need to be addressed.

Gently,
Wysteria Blue

Thanks, you sound like my T, in a good way, lol. She's often helped me find ways to make time for self-care. I thought I was getting pretty good at it, but I'm struggling to keep up right now. I was managing school and work, then they both got harder.

But, I am just about to take a break and try for a nap and then I have a massage scheduled tomorrow. I go once per month for stress and to help with the PTSD, so that's good timing. I will try and squeeze a self-mani in tonight, the only main priorities I have today are homework and my daughter's medical care.

I've tried to let go of a lot, like lowering my Martha Stewart standards for the house, and I let my in-laws and hubby help more, like having my kiddo spend the night this past Sunday and asking hubby to do the grocery shopping and make dinner. After all... if he was single, he'd have to do them lol.

I feel like it's hard to keep up, but... hopefully in a few days I'll feel better. I think I got extra stressed from some trouble at work and school and my mom staying here on the long weekend and hopefully that should all ease up a bit.

If I skip therapy Friday, it's another $100 I don't have to worry about, sigh, but yeah, who knows how I'll feel by then. Maybe I do need a summer vacation from therapy though... might be nice to turn my thoughts to other things and have those 4 hours and $400 unspent.... (who am I kidding, I'm sure I won't want two whole weeks off, ha.)

I can' hardly decide anything atm, though, too bleary eyed, lol, going to try for that nap. Thanks for the good advice.

And thanks everyone for posting, I find it very helpful and comforting.

She's really not doing a very good job at helping you with exactly what she said she would help you with.

Why not get a timer and set it for the time? A nice loud BBBZZZZZZ will let you know.

Also, for the length of emails? Why not ask her what makes an email too long? Why not ask her for a word count? Like... say... 500-600 words = $X, 1000 words=X, etc? Then you can type your emails into word, find out the word count, and include that so that you'll know how much you are going to pay for what you type? If she also charges based on how long her responses are... then dictate and go "I'd like a 500 word response".

If she doesn't measure it that way, then you can ask her to so that you can have a clear-cut way to help yourself since she's clearning NOT doing that for you.

Self-limiting does seem easiest, sigh. Thank you (and the previous poster who mentioned a timer) for the good ideas.

I do have a loud kitchen timer. I can set it to 50 minutes I guess, and I can quickly check my word counts in Word and limit myself to 500 words each day. I often write almost twice that much, so I'm pretty confident that if I stick to my plan of one message and then a brief reply to her reply, she'll not charge more.

Only, again, I have trouble with the limiting.

When my anxiety's high... I write a lot. I try not to write repeatedly. I'd been doing very well, but when my mom was coming... not so good.

I'm sure (I hope) it'll get easier again. I felt like I was doing well for a while, but everything got rough.

But yeah, I think I just have to work this out somehow, though I think I'll take a few days away from her, sigh. I'm just feeling miserable, maybe some time off therapy will actually help.

She talks about how even the things we love doing give us diminishing returns if we overdo it, and I think I'm at that point with therapy. I was trying to take a break last week and didn't... guess I will now! I feel like a total grump, sigh, wish I was child-free atm- Washington just made pot legal and I could seriously use a pot brownie, ha. Never tried one before, wish I could now.

I know there's more to the issue but the fact that your therapist initiated an email with you, you responded and she charged you for it bothers me. It's not good business. You have a fee or you don't. You charge for your time, sure, but shouldn't that be when the client requests extra time? If she keeps you it's up to T to track your time, not you. It doesn't seem fair to me and her response when you brought it up was pretty unprofessional, in my opinion.

I would be frustrated at your t, she is not a good time manager. I would set some sort of alarm the next time you have a session , to remind you not to go over. And if she emails you to check on you, I would not answer if she is going to charge me, knowing my financial situation .

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I don't understand the online therapy model, I get that. It seems to me like it is always the therapist's responsibility to manage session length, and if they choose to go over the allotted hour without clearing it with the client first, that's not something they should charge for.

Do you think your therapist is taking advantage of the online model, where your card is automatically charged? She knows the high cost is hard for you, and her response about being fed up with your worrying about it hits me all wrong.

I hope the two of you work it out.

Sigh, honestly, I don't believe she wants to nickel and dime me. I think that she sets a fair value on her time and is pretty generous about email charges. I know it takes her a lot of time to read and reply to me. Whereas she bills $100 an hour for live session time... I think she probably only is charging half that for email time. I appreciate that, but also, it's easier for her- she can reply whenever it's convenient.

I just feel out of control when she raises the fee without asking, because she said she would ask- she offered that.

So, one issue is it being expensive and another is it not being structured.

And as far as the live session time, she is struggling to control it, but I believe that's mostly because we have this history of longer sessions and I think she's really wanting to be there emotionally for me and she told me how hard it was for her to end our session Monday and that is was a failure of hers.

The thing is...

I can not afford to have BOTH of us struggling with these limits, and of course, I have to pay the piper, going long doesn't impact her the way it does me, sigh.

She promised to manage the time.

And I am not sure she's up to it.

I think it's a bit better to let her do it, but... I want it to be much better. I want it to feel safe, to feel like I can stick to this budget, which is already an extravagance.

I'm so tired. I can't spend any more money like this. The extra email session was $75. The extra Friday & Monday minutes were $67. Those on their own might not seem atrocious, but having spent double my budget on therapy in the past... and honestly, having all the expenses I do... I can't just justify the overspending at all.

I am taking a lot of her time, but she shouldn't have offered what she couldn't provide.

It's better not to offer than to overpromise and underdeliver. Sigh.

***It may be that this adjustment takes a bit of time for her to get used to... but I don't feel like I can trust that, based on past experience and just my own fears I guess. I'm not as patient as her and I'm struggling with all this. In the back of my head, I occassionally worry about being her main source of income, but... she is truly a sincere woman, principled, and I really think her issue is trouble with limits more than any lack of ethics. There are a couple areas where I've noticed things about her that suggest this. And our relationship is unique for being online and so intense. She was in private practice for 20 years, but I believe I'm her first longterm online therapy client, sigh. I just can't afford to be a guinea pig today. ***

your T is so expensive. $50 for one email exchange over a few days. wowza! it feels like your T is kind of taking advantage of you here especially with emailing you and starting the email exchange. i'd think that would be up to you as the client to initiate. like sweepy said i'd not answer if you don't want to get caught in another email fee. you could go ahead and tell her that next session or add it onto another of your emails that you need to be the one to initiate the emails.

I really don't get her... She's obviously not trying to muster your independency on her by contacting you herself and she knows you're struggling moneywise...
How about paying a fixed price for a session no matter the length- that could help her watch the time better.
She'd offered to see you for free- a gesture that looks nice but too "dramatical" and frankly, given these circumstances pretty empty- why not just stop requesting more?

Thanks, well, independence hasn't really been one of my goals, just the opposite. I've been self-reliant to a fault for many years, so... we're working on changing that. It's going well, but tough.

I can't pay a fixed session price because of the agency we use: they have a timer that charges by the minute. She can adjust her rate, but she is not able, with their system, to turn the timer on or off.

She hadn't offered to see me for free exactly: she had said, when I asked her, she *would* see me for free if I ever couldn't afford to see her, i.e. I asked her what if I lost my job/got divorced/had emergencies, etc. and didn't have the income. So, I thought that was a reassuring, reasonable reply given the amount of work we did together, and it helped me believe her commitment to me. But I respect her time and wouldn't want to not pay her.

If you saw my emails you might feel differently, haha. I'm a prolific writer. One of those three day email sessions probably runs about... 3,000 words on my part and three replies from her. Often, there have been more replies. So.... she's definitely earning less than her $100 per hour rate on those. It is a good deal, and I am glad to pay for emails because they are convenient, less than live session time, and because I find writing versus speaking so helpful sometimes.

I have almost always initiated the email sessions, 99% of the time, and so being in such a pattern, I guess she was concerned not to hear from me. I had the option, like Sweepy mentioned, to just say "I'm fine, just watching my budget," or "I'm fine, just taking a little break from therapy." and not get into a session. That's probably what I'd have to try and do if it occurred again, it's just... she and I have such a habit, that when I interact with her, I do seem to automatically go into spill everything mode.

The amount she charges is not unreasonable... $100/h for live sessions, when she's certainly worth twice that based on her credentials/experience and similarly fair for emails... I'm just really struggling w/keeping the cost down and needing more structure: for her to follow the plan she laid out to manage session time and to ask me if she wants to raise the email fee, not just do it.

But yeah, I think she's poor at limits the more I think about it, and seeing as I'm also poor at limits, which is probably more understandable since I'm the client... it is an issue atm. However, she's not a complete failure at them: she acknowledged her failure to keep the time on Monday, and definitely encouraged me a few times to end the session, she just wasn't as firm as I need her to be: but if she hadn't mentioned ending a few times, I probably would've gone another 30 minutes, so it did help. And she's been consistent about letting me say a quick hello and then politely letting me off the line, so I'm just checking in for a minute instead of starting an hour+ chat like I used to, so... that part has seemed better. I'm just awfully frustrated, not just at her but at absolutely everything in my life at the moment. Well, not just frustrated I guess, to be honest, but scared. I'm scared of it all going wrong.

I had a dream of her last night, actually, that finally instead of being 3,000 miles away, she was close and invited me to have a session in person, sigh. I was so happy to meet her in the dream.

As it is... I think I'll take a few days off. I don't know: I might cancel my Friday session. I've already spent that money on extra fees this week, so....

That sounds very unprofessional of her, especially that message. "Good god" and "i'm fed up with this" rings warning bells in my head.

Yeah, it was unlike her, though I sensed she was bothered lately, I think we needed some space and I was apparently the first to realize it. I told her I was fed up too and closed out the session, sigh.

We'll see what, if anything, she does from here. I'm not inclined to have my Friday session at the moment. It's nice to have support, but, it's not like I'm stupid. To the extent we were going to talk about structuring my days to be easier... I can certainly brainstorm alone on that count.

To the extent we were going to talk about something painful to do with my mother, well.... it's waited many years, no rush now, I suppose.

To the extent I was going to be stressed about my marriage... seeing as I'm not going to get divorced tomorrow... I find it might be better to take a break anyway, try and work on the positives, not analyze or dwell on the negatives so much.

I came to therapy with behavioral issues, that's what I needed help with the most. It's been a year and a half. Enough for me to take a break and see if I have made the progress I think I have, sigh.

Plus... I'm seriously swamped. Time devoted to therapy is time I might use elsewhere... not to mention money.

Unless she cares to apologize and sort this out. That would help I think.

[QUOTE=Leah123;3877010]... she and I have such a habit, that when I interact with her, I do seem to automatically go into spill everything mode. QUOTE]

Leah, I've read all your posts regarding your therapist's difficulties keeping the boundary of time. I feel for you on the issue of finances. Sometimes the cost I pay for psychotherapy hits me in the face like a baseball bat, but like you, I understand the need for it and I'm willing to make the sacrifice. . . within reason.

One thing I've noticed is that you periodically post something like this and you sound as though you're in meltdown mode over the problems with "cost". I don't think your "spill" here on the forums about this issue is out of line. It is definitely your therapist's responsibility to monitor the time of your sessions and bring things to a close at the right time. I know that when I had a therapist who had a hard time keeping to time limits (she consistently went over time on our sessions) she NEVER charged me for the extra time. She was aware of her problem with this and took responsibility for it. Your therapist knows that the online site monitors the time of your sessions and charges your credit card for every single minute you're in session. She knows how you're struggling to keep finances reasonable. I would think she'd take more care around this issue of time.

I also get that it's hard for you to hear feedback from others about your therapist's failure to provide good boundaries for you. But if you go back and look, you'll see that you post about this issue periodically (you're usually in a pretty upset mindset when you post about the issue or at least you come across that way) and when people give you feedback about how your therapist might need to make some changes in her approach, you consistently backtrack and support her as not being the one who is creating the difficulties. It a pattern you demonstrate pretty consistently. The fact that your therapist is falling down in this area doesn't mean she's a bad therapist! I think she sounds pretty darn good But she needs to examine her own handling of this situation and be accountable. It truly is HER job to keep to the time requirements of the kind of session you two have talked about. Hope this hasn't been hurtful in any way. It's not intended to be that!

Actually, this is a new step for us, me ceding control for the time limits, because I did see that pattern of me being unable to manage the time.

Some new things are the fixed email rate. She said $50 and that it might sometimes be more, in which case "more" is typically $75, but that is saving me money either way over our previous multi-session format, where each session was $50 or more, so a minimum of $100 - $150.

Additionally, she's letting me do brief check ins for free, so a minute or two after which she tells me goodbye and disconnects, which saves me $100+ instead of launching new sessions.

Third, she is noting the session times now, which she did not before, so she tells me it's time to go, to wrap up, but this is only something we switched to doing about two weeks ago, so she acknowledged her failure for our Monday session when we went 15 minutes over.

So, yes, the cost continues to be an issue, but actually these are changes we've implemented to get it under control.

I think this is good progress. Also... a work in progress.

As far as her not creating the difficulties, well, we've both contributed. But we never started from a place of her having one hour sessions with me. And she had no idea of my financial limitations until many months into the process, maybe about... 9 months in and it was a process to decide how to try handling that, until we got to this point. Online therapy is a different format, it's not traditional 50 minute sessions at all, so switching to this time restriction is a big shift for us. I never vested her with the responsibility to keep time, nor wanted her to, I'm glad that we're at a place where I trust the process a bit more now and am willing (and needing) to do that.

I'll give you a monetary comparison. Compared to me managing session times independently, even at her current rate of overages, instead of spending more than twice my budget, I would spend 25% more maximum, so 25% over instead of 110% over is a huge improvement, and I do believe she's firmly committed to eliminating the current 20%.

P.S. Actually, I think this thread is pretty clearly about me telling her to make a change in her approach, because when she didn't stick to the black and white plan I told her I wanted her to do so and noted it was an issue.