Interesting Study- Indicator For Suicide Risk

i was more thinking that further studies might find information with regards to chemical make up. so you go in with SUI thoughts. they find you have this gene which tends to lean towards a particular make up and so in maybe 75% of the cases, using meds in X class are most effective for these people.

does that make more sense?

i'm very pro-science, yes. but as i pointed out (and i'll repeat it again), this is a single study. it really can't do much of anything. i didn't say it *would* do anything. i said it had potential. that's all i'm looking at - potential.

being a skeptic means considering all the information, not merely dismissing it out of hand. i like this definition of skeptic.

see, I think they will not find the chemicals of the exact action. Like... Prozac helps you with wanting to die cause of abondment issues, and Zoloft with wanting to die cause of lacking self-worth and lithium for killing yourself cause you are bored and scared of life and nobody knows where Slovenia is (if you read Veronika decides to die, you will get the reference).

Background of each person is very complex. Each person is a unique story. No formula to determine how it will turn out.

That's why i think this a dead-end street.........

i think we're talking past each other because that's not at all what i mean. i meant more like people with this particular gene need more access to serotonin. not 'you need prozac because you want to hang yourself.'

the brain is complex, i agree, which is why i find this study interesting. it alone is unlikely to do much, but it's a starting place for more information. it maybe the first step in many steps that lead to understanding more about the human mind and its many chemicals and its make up in a clearer fashion.

I find science advances more quickly than our ability to handle it responsibly

I think there is a presumption that suicide=mental illness in all cases.

Which I don't believe. There's lot of factors playing in there. I don't think all those who kill themselves neccesarily posses this gene.

I think people kill themselves for more reasons that one broken gene or being "ill". hence I don't see much real potential of test like this one.

It appears to be a genetic indicator of an inability to deal with stress such that suicidal ideation becomes deadly more often. If I were clinically depressed and/or had suicidal ideation I would not mind being checked for the genetic problem. What could be done then though, if I had that defect, I don't know. I think it would be a little comforting, if I did not have the genetic problem to know that I did not, that I was not being "forced" by my genes into a corner. I guess I'd rather be bullied out of a corner by people wanting to help me live than into death by my genes.

[QUOTE=Perna;3909867. I guess I'd rather be bullied out of a corner by people wanting to help me live than into death by my genes.[/QUOTE]

Perhaps that is the problem I am having with this idea. I am just the opposite and would not rather that at all.

I would never want to know if I had that gene, there is too much potential for abuse. I have a deep mistrust of most mental health professionals, especially considering the events of my involuntary hospitalization. They are not all ethical, let alone competent, professionals with your best interest in mind.

I'm guessing you have never been bullied or had people try to control your life. It's scary when people think they are somehow better than you. It's a level playing field...some just don't know it.

I think that it is an interesting and potentially important finding.

It could be useful as a risk-assessment tool, especially for people from a family with a history of suicide - from twin studies the heritability of suicide is ~50% - this is fairly typical of complex human behaviours. People who are positive for the differences in the SKA2 gene that Guintivano and colleagues reported could be offered increased levels of psychological/psychiatric support, which I think is a good idea.

Although the differences in the SKA2 gene that Guintivano and colleagues discovered (a point mutation and a propensity for it to be "switched off" through a complex process called epigenetic silencing) are well-understood in theory, neither can currently be reversed.

So, the prospects of an "anti-suicide" pill are remote and clearly there would be major ethical issues to be considered should one be developed.

That would depend on the herbs in the supplement and how strong it is.

I also find it interesting that, in addition to a pill, some immediately thought of loss of control and the evil empire of mental health care. I guess by interesting, I meant sad.

I see this finding, if it holds up, as a way to actually put our mental health a little bit more in our control - if not avoid the mental health system altogether.

We could use this to modify our lifestyles, to develop better coping methods etc... Knowing we might have this susceptibility could help us feel better in the long run.

I think of other genetic risk factors for illness, and I can't think of a single one that I wouldn't want to know if I had it. It would allow ME to modify the outcome (as best that I could).

Even with genetic predictors there are modifiers that make no result a forgone conclusion.

I definitely would want that information in my hands.

I don't know where you get that I have never been bullied or had people control my life from my preference for fighting for life over dying if there is any hope but then I'll guess you have never felt you had anyone you could trust to help you.

I have found this a rather enlightening read from not only the article but from those of you who've posted opinions from both sides of the issue as well.

Thank You!

A response to he idea:
The Idea That Suicide Is Caused by a Gene Defect Is Absurd | Psychology Today

Thanks stopdog - an interesting commentary.

My take on it is that Dr Berezin has confused "causes" with "is a risk factor for". What Guintivano et al. have shown (assuming that their work is replicated in other studies) is that differences in the SKA2 gene are a risk factor for suicide. That is not the same as saying that those differences cause suicide.

I am not surprised that Guintivano et al. seem to have discovered differences in one gene which are a risk factor for suicide but I would be very surprised if that was the only genetic difference which may be a risk factor - "one gene, one disease" disorders are very uncommon.

More generally, I think that Dr Berezin seems to have fallen for the myth of genetic determinism (OMG, it is in my genes, I can't do anything about it, I am doomed.). How important genetic differences may be in any health condition says nothing about how easy it may be to reverse the effects of those genetic differences - sometimes it is easy, other times it is hard.

I don't know of any molecular geneticists (I worked with some of them in my day job) who give the myth of genetic determinism the slightest credence.

If there was a history of suicides in a family, I think it's more about their choice to escape life rather than deal with the problems in the family?

Like, "my dad killed himself because he couldn't handle the debt, so I'm going to kill myself too because I don't know how to handle my wife leaving me" - that's a true case scenario of a family I know.

I found this article interesting.

I've known for awhile that I have hormone problems. And I also know my mental health problems became extreme at the start of puberty.

The doctors have already found a tumor on my pituitary and a tumor on one of my ovaries (both are not a health risk to me atm). I have already been diagnosed with PCOS. MY cortisol and testosterone levels are also extremely high (I recently read that cortisol makes testosterone and estrogen) My dog has cushings (i.e. hormone problems). I've always wondered if I had cushings.

I know cortisol is the most abundant hormone in the body. I know that it affects stress and anxiety and triggers the fight or flight response. I think it would be interesting to know if that gene is mutated in me. But whether or not it is, I feel it's still my conscious choice whether I live or take my own life.

This is one of the main reasons why congress tries to force the hand of the FDA to not approve many of the drugs that would otherwise really help people.

These (future, prospective) drugs can always be approved, but with a lot of restrictions- there will always be abusers in the world. But their sheer existence does not mean that people should just die- despite medicine progressing enough to find a "cure for suicide".

Thanks Scarlet P-- I have pCOS too and I've always wondered about the genetics. And the genetics of depression etc.

I can't wait until this stuff is better understood. Recently, I was in a meeting with our VP and I was floored by something she said. President Obama is putting funding towards a project to map the human brain, and here she was complaining that our country has better things to spend its money on.

Wha???

obviously this lady doesn't know anyone with mental illness, parkinsons, autism, dementia etc etc etc. I kept thinking what an idiot she is.

anyways, I digress. The topic is fascinating but I fear answers won't come in time to help me.

I am not concerned with a consumer abusing a drug. I think the war on drugs is insane. I am against the medical establishment controlling or inflicting itself upon those who don't want it and the abuses from the medical community towards clients.

you're correct: reoccurring thoughts of an action- obsession. Acting out those thoughts- compulsion.


The test stated how the prefrontal cortex of the brain responded to stress was what triggered the alteration of said genetic indicator. It is way too early to speculate how this medication can be dispensed should it finally be approved (and thats after the lengthly process of actually creating/synthesizing this drug).


you state great cons - I am against the idea of anyone getting tested and having any medication forced upon them. But on the other hand- this is something important- that will help many people.

I agree with stop dog every time I buy cough medicine with pseudoephedrine in
it- and have to show my ID.

So stupid, so nanny state, because I am 40 min from mexico and I could buy bucket loads if I wanted to.

I think stopdog was speaking of a different type of war on drugs. Correct me if I'm wrong:

From what I can gather from his posts- he either represents or helps represent people who have been deemed mentally incapacitated- either against their will- or within their will- but are now being mistreated due to having treatments imposed upon them against their will.

So- this might be another thing- both the screening and drug being available- that could target certain people.

You're speaking of the war on drugs where- they card people who buy pseudoephedrine bc of its use in making meth. Altho I'm not sure why anyone would ever need to go an extra 40m to purchase a bucketful of that stuff (no I get it. Ur saying the option is available)- but you can also buy painkillers in Mexico too. Bucketfuls. If you can find somewhere to hide them in the ride back.

-on one end- if you're not doing anything wrong. Why would showing your ID bug you.

On the other hand- these tiny little regulatory impositions are slowly eating away our freedom.